SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)


User avatar
Magua
Magua
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Magua
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6109
Joined: January 18, 2009

Post Post #9775 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 7:58 am

Post by Magua »

In post 9767, Skybird wrote:Magua, what do you think of Ooba?


After Heartless flipped town, I was willing to trust his read on Ooba as town. Ooba resurrecting Imperium just reinforces that.

In post 9769, ooba wrote:
What I get from this is we should have lynched vezo like eons ago.


You realize you're on both those wagons too, yes? As am I. Just wanting to make sure that's clear.

---

We should not lynch until Imperium / Espeonage return.
User avatar
Magua
Magua
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Magua
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6109
Joined: January 18, 2009

Post Post #9776 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 8:04 am

Post by Magua »

My vote is, rather than having the game stall for another four real life days, just chop four days off the deadline and assume we've fast forwarded those days.
User avatar
Drixx
Drixx
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Drixx
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7210
Joined: December 17, 2014

Post Post #9777 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 8:06 am

Post by Drixx »

I'd really like to get ZZZX's thoughts and see what Espe and Imperium say before forming that opinion fully Ollie. For the record, I'm still of the opinion that ZZZX is town, but he hasn't said much today in the neighborhood. He clarified something for me which I was hoping would have a different answer, but that's about it so far. :(

And Magua I think that's the point ... a bunch of people who are in or near the town block are on the wagons. The problem with VCA is that it doesn't account for context. Since I happened to be dumpster diving through this thread again, I re-read the last 35 pages of day one, a large portion of which happened over the last hour or so of the day as the timer was running down, a few replacements came in really late, people were going nuts at each other, and the AP lynch came together basically because it was either lynch him or start day 2 in the same state of irritation/uncertainty. {In fact, the predominant reasoning that got people to go onto the wagon was that not lynching him would just be a complete and total waste of that first 3 weeks}.

The context of that lynch makes VCA on it essentially useless in the traditional sense, yeah?

@P-Edit - I agree Magua, but I don't expect we will even get everyone to post in that timeframe, let alone get them all to agree.
Get to know a Drixx - Recently Updated!
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9778 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 8:21 am

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

In post 9777, Drixx wrote:The context of that lynch makes VCA on it essentially useless in the traditional sense, yeah?

In some sense, yes. But not really, since that was an incredibly active final 24 hours where almost everyone still alive was basically posting up a storm. But that would also only account for the last portion of the wagon being less significant (they've all flipped town apart from Skybird anyway, soooooooooooo).

I sincerely doubt the entire scum team was off that lynch, if that's what you're suggesting.
User avatar
Drixx
Drixx
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Drixx
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7210
Joined: December 17, 2014

Post Post #9779 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 9:22 am

Post by Drixx »

I can't imagine that they would all be off that wagon. I'm not trying to dismiss evidence that points to a couple people I've read as scummy. I still am a bit concerned with Skybird having a role that lets her re-direct abilities at whomever she wants (seems like a really good way to protect from the vig shots) and that she also said would let her stop herself being lynched. The latter may or may not be true, but it was the way she claimed it with the added "but I would totally never do that" that bothered me.

Are we just lynching Otolia because of Ollie? I thought Otolia's stand-in player responded really transparently to the questions about his role when MS popped in with the shot and rolecop results. How did you read that ZeL1nK?

Also, when I was reading through earlier parts of the game again, it jumped out at me that almost everyone has scum read ZZZX at one point or another. How much of that early part of the game is influencing your thoughts today? More to the point, how much stock should I put in the early part of the game? Since we're kind of stalled until Espe/Imp get back, I've been re-reading and trying to update my thoughts on everyone.
Get to know a Drixx - Recently Updated!
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9780 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 10:41 am

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

In post 9779, Drixx wrote:I thought Otolia's stand-in player responded really transparently to the questions about his role when MS popped in with the shot and rolecop results. How did you read that ZeL1nK?

Why would any player of either alignment not do this?
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9781 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 10:48 am

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

One thing that worries me about the Otolia slot (other than the complete lack of anything game-related from Otolia - he literally has spent the entire game talking about his role or things irrelevant to scum hunting and has produced a total of zero reads so far except when he voted large wagons on now-flipped town players) is that, while almost 400 pages is daunting, I think Stabulous's lack of trying to get into the game (apart from asking what the Snowflake thing was about, I guess?) might be indicative of him not wanting to screw anything up for Otolia-scum.
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9782 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 10:56 am

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

In post 9779, Drixx wrote:How much of that early part of the game is influencing your thoughts today? More to the point, how much stock should I put in the early part of the game?

I barely remember anything game-relevant from the early stages of the game (mostly because I wasn't there for it, and all I did was a quick read-over during the night phase after I replaced in at the end of D2). So uh, very little? I read ISOs now and then and think about things that happened early on but that's about it. Most of my thoughts are contained in my head; I think X is town/scum for ~reasons I've probably listed in neighborhood but would likely not remember them all off the top of my head~. Though right now I'm in the midst of (slowly) reevaluating all of my reads.

Put as much stock as you want in it, I guess. To be honest, I don't think there's a lot of good to come out of D1/D2 except possibly looking at what happened with the Pumbaa/Ozgin thing. D1 was only mildly useful for getting a town read on players like farside (due to PV interactions) but that slot is dead now (thanks, Snowflake!) and I don't remember a whole lot else useful happening D1.
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9783 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 11:53 am

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

@dram

In post 9776, Magua wrote:My vote is, rather than having the game stall for another four real life days, just chop four days off the deadline and assume we've fast forwarded those days.

This, please
User avatar
Stabulous
Stabulous
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stabulous
Goon
Goon
Posts: 261
Joined: January 25, 2015

Post Post #9784 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 1:28 pm

Post by Stabulous »

In post 9781, ZeL1nK2 wrote:One thing that worries me about the Otolia slot (other than the complete lack of anything game-related from Otolia - he literally has spent the entire game talking about his role or things irrelevant to scum hunting and has produced a total of zero reads so far except when he voted large wagons on now-flipped town players) is that, while almost 400 pages is daunting, I think Stabulous's lack of trying to get into the game (apart from asking what the Snowflake thing was about, I guess?) might be indicative of him not wanting to screw anything up for Otolia-scum.


Yeah, I'm sorry. I'll make a real reads list tonight. I'm still trying to figure out what's going on here to be honest. Why did MS shoot and why is he not lynched yet for lying about his alignment ("I win with town" implying third party vs "I am town")?
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9785 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 1:58 pm

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

Well, that's not what it implies, to be honest... It was an awkward response, sure, but in context it probably doesn't mean a whole lot (TSO's post before it).

Besides which, I'm not interested in lynching possible third parties at the moment anyway.
User avatar
vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
vezokpiraka
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6034
Joined: June 17, 2010

Post Post #9786 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 4:06 pm

Post by vezokpiraka »

@zelink: ms claimed he rolecopped otolia and he's scum for fakeclaimimg.
Windows hasn't detected any keyboard. Press Enter.
User avatar
Stabulous
Stabulous
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stabulous
Goon
Goon
Posts: 261
Joined: January 25, 2015

Post Post #9787 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 4:35 pm

Post by Stabulous »

In post 9786, vezokpiraka wrote:@zelink: ms claimed he rolecopped otolia and he's scum for fakeclaimimg.


He did rolecop me. That's my rolename. But everything claimed by my slot is accurate. Is the argument really just "it would say doublevoter if you had a doublevote ultimate?" Why doesn't Pidgeon's rolename mention the strongman kill? The moderator clearly isn't that consistent.
User avatar
Magua
Magua
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Magua
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6109
Joined: January 18, 2009

Post Post #9788 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 4:42 pm

Post by Magua »

So my problem is I have reasons to think everyone is town, which is wrong. So.

Metal Sonic:
Shot scum D2. Largely absent from things thereafter, especially D4 and beyond. Doesn't push an agenda. Read this as scummy, resulting in vote at the beginning of D6.

I think his roleclaim is legit, but am still ambivalent about his alignment. Can definitely see PeregrineV being a bus. Rereading his posts in light of his roleclaim shows some crumbs (especially around scum failing to kill vezokpiraka N3, when Metal was protecting him), but just, dunno. Dunno.

Skybird:
The reason for Skybird-town is the claiming of the redirect power to her neighborhood, and then again the interaction between her and TWIE D2 when TWIE is all "She's a bad shot." The redirect power reads as so scum, but what scum with that power would give up it's utility by claiming it?

Beyond that, her beliefs and reads are opaque to me, I can't recall them, which is meh.

Otolia:
Much like with Skybird, I feel TAOS' claiming of the double vote power D1 -- especially given that it doesn't show up on vote count -- is a real towntell. It's essentially the same thing that I'm townreading Skybird for. This is less cut-and-dried than Skybird's (especially given that there are /so/ /many/ vote manipulation powers), but still?

TheWayItEnds:
Just want the slot dead, really. Think it's town, still want it dead. Very much reminiscent of pirate mollie in Reckoning. I feel that it's existence is a detriment to the town.

Zel1nk:
Found TiphaineDeath's claim of the roleblock on mastin D2 town. Liked Zelink a whole bunch D2/D3. Like Zelink a whole lot less now. Being one of the most engaged people in the game is good, but Zelink does not seem to be trying to figure anything out. Push TSO a whole bunch => TSO flips town => no change.

Really irritates me on an out-of-game level and I'm trying to keep that separate and not always being successful.

Ooba:
Trusting Heartless' read here, also resurrected Imperium which was nice, and, let's be honest here, were he scum he could've saved that for close to lylo, considering that he was coming off of Heartless' "Ooba is town" and then Heartless flipping town and didn't really need to add to that.

ZZZX:
Hid in the neighborhood / behind mastin for so long, has done next to nothing in the thread. Can't read at all, pretty much no content. Assuming town because mastin thought he was town / Drixx thinks he's town.

Ollie:
Trying to keep raging paranoia in check. Found FourTrouble to be super town D2; the claim was forced, yes, but shooting Cephrir was not something that needed to happen and there were plenty of other shots that FourTrouble-scum could've made. Doubly so because Cephrir could've killed the Mask for free and scum then decided to kill the Mask. Triply so because FourTrouble shot Cephrir pretty much on his own.

vezokpiraka:
As noted before, information that I have indicates vezok is telling the truth about his actions, in ways that it would be a large coincidence were they fake. Could still be scum using rolestopping as investigation stoppers rather than kill stoppers, but that, to my mind, heavily requires Metal Sonic-scum. If Metal Sonic is town then I'm 99% vezok is town from role.

Espeonage:
Has abducted people. Hasn't done much else. I liked his posts D2 and then they fell off mightily. Can't recall him doing anything with the Andrius abduct. Basically going to wait and see what Imperium says about him when they get back.

Drixx:
Much like ZZZX, trusting the combination of both mastin and ZZZX saying Drixx is town here.

Collating, the only items are note is that I think both Drixx/ZZZX are town based on their mutual reads, and I think Metal Sonic's alignment implies the same to vezokpiraka's alignment.

The most likely scumteam I see at this point is (Metal Sonic, vezokpiraka, (Zelink or Espeonage)), but that's also really wishful thinking on my part. Specifically, if Metal Sonic is town and then I think vezokpiraka is town, then I am super, super, super hard pressed to come up with three names of scum.

---

Rereading the Day, everyone who said killerjester was a bad shot should really be saying who a better one would've been. Can't say Otolia because you want to lynch Otolia due to Ollie, so all of this "killerjester was town" with no inkling of who you'd rather have had shot is annoying.
User avatar
Magua
Magua
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Magua
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6109
Joined: January 18, 2009

Post Post #9789 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 5:08 pm

Post by Magua »

If you play "disregard the claiming and using of powers early as town", then it becomes (Skybird, Otolia, Espeonage), but every single thing about that grouping screams "too easy."

I also keep coming back to Ollie still being alive, while Mastin died. Paranoia about Ollie aside, this makes me think that the remaining scum are not worried about being vigged as much as they were worried about mastin claiming inno's on people who might otherwise be lynched. Of course, reflection shows that there's about eighteen thousand different ways to stop a kill, so maybe that's not nearly as indicative of anything as I want it to be.
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9790 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 5:28 pm

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

Literally any available option was better as a shot specifically because there were actually-good interaction reasons to clear the slot, whereas a slot like, say, Espy (if we waited for then to return) or even Skybird/TWIE if people actually think they're scum were better from an info point of view and a chance-to-flip-scum point of view

Also I sincerely doubt the block of players (magua, vezok, Drixx, ZZZX, ooba) is all town. Mostly because I don't think the game is as simple as scum in Otolia, Espy and Snowflake hood, but I seriously doubt people are going to consider those options until we see flips elsewhere so right now I'm just thinking about how best to optimise the night play in the mean time (and that requires Imperium to come back in the game to discuss something). Also I'm thinking rotating protects on Imperium is a good idea even if it means some protective roles will be blocked the following night but that's also something I'm pondering
User avatar
vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
vezokpiraka
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6034
Joined: June 17, 2010

Post Post #9791 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 7:39 pm

Post by vezokpiraka »

We need two protects on imperium for it to work.
Windows hasn't detected any keyboard. Press Enter.
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9792 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 7:47 pm

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

That indeed would be the case, thus rotating. But we also have like 3 claimed protective roles (you, snowflake, ZZZX) on top of Espy's role and while I sincerely doubt you're all town, for the purposes of rotating protections, it doesn't matter. The key thing is, Imperium cannot die as long as at least two of you four are alive and rotate your protects.
User avatar
vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
vezokpiraka
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6034
Joined: June 17, 2010

Post Post #9793 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 7:58 pm

Post by vezokpiraka »

The kill gets blocked by imperiums passive. I'm not wasting two protects on someone that has a protective passive.
Windows hasn't detected any keyboard. Press Enter.
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9794 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 8:27 pm

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

...
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9795 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 8:31 pm

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

I must have imagined Imperium dying.

Turns out it never happened.
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
ZeL1nK2
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
ZeL1nK2
Goon
Goon
Posts: 853
Joined: March 26, 2015
Location: 桃源郷

Post Post #9796 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2015 8:35 pm

Post by ZeL1nK2 »

ooba, why did you revive imperium?
User avatar
Skybird
Skybird
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Skybird
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2880
Joined: June 20, 2014
Location: In the woods

Post Post #9797 (ISO) » Mon May 04, 2015 1:06 am

Post by Skybird »

Much like Magua, I have too many town reads and have been trying to figure out where I am wrong. I even told my PT last night that we all needed to re-evaluate our town reads because one or more of them is wrong. In pondering why I consider someone town, I can't find good reasons for ZZX and Drixx other than Mastin claimed you guys as town. Drixx has been in the main thread trying to figure out things so I put him slightly ahead of ZX on the town scale.

One thing that stands out to me is bitmap/espe. When bitmap took MS away, he claimed he did it so he could sort him and figure out if MS was town because he was scum-reading Metal. But when asked about the outcome, bitmap claimed to have been busy and not having a chance to figure MS out. Espe took Andrius into the PT next to sort him. The anger when he returned (we had just lynched Ankamius) felt a bit out of place to me but he did explain it when asked. And after being in the PT with Espe, Andrius was the scum night kill. Finally he he has taken Imp away. I can see both scum and town motivation for this. But the weird thing is the slot has used this ability to take a scum read into a 1 on 1 to figure them out. Imp is quite clearly town. Imp was not in danger of being vigged. If Espe wanted to keep Imp safe, he should have waited until the halfway point today to kidnap Imp. (MS kidnapped halfway through D1 and gone all night, Andrius scheduled to come back halfway through D3 which implies a night start kidnapping. If espe kidnapped Imp at the end of night/start of day, that will keep Imp out all day and half the night. This deprives us of Imp's input today.
User avatar
Metal Sonic
Metal Sonic
Sun Tzu
User avatar
User avatar
Metal Sonic
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
Posts: 11957
Joined: February 24, 2013

Post Post #9798 (ISO) » Mon May 04, 2015 1:11 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

this better not end up like capcom where super vigs kill scum but the scum win anyway

i swear

this game lost its potential for a best town nommie
oopsies! haha!

I've updated my wiki! Check it out!
User avatar
Metal Sonic
Metal Sonic
Sun Tzu
User avatar
User avatar
Metal Sonic
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
Posts: 11957
Joined: February 24, 2013

Post Post #9799 (ISO) » Mon May 04, 2015 1:16 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

sonic's reads

Metal Sonic - town as fuck
Skybird - trust that she is town
Otolia - scum can die
TheWayItEnds - troll
Zel1nk - "roleblocking fragilizer". put in a lot of effort though, but might be a strong scum player controlling the lynches in day
Ooba - i cant read this dude. town for rezzing imperium

Magua - conftown by mastina
vezokpiraka - the protector who never dies. i don't need him anymore though, so thank you for your services you are now dismissed (damn i'm a terrible boss that sounds terrible but im joking okay!)
Espeonage - i like his powers but PoE says he can leave

Imperium - town as fuck


ZZZX - mastinhood, if there's scum it's here
Drixx - mastinhood, lots of effort probably town
oopsies! haha!

I've updated my wiki! Check it out!

Return to “Completed Large Theme Games”