Mini 1665: Papers, Please Mafia (Game Over)

[Untrod Tripod]

let's see those reads first

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.20

PeaceBringer (5) - elusive, Stabulous, Wrong Song, ChaosOmega, Untrod Tripod
ChaosOmega (3) - Kop, Quilford, Dinare
Kop (3) - Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, PeaceBringer
elusive (1) - xRECKONERx
Wrong Song (1) - hitogoroshi

Not Voting (0)

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Thursday, May 7, 2015, at 11:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-07 23:30:00).

[PeaceBringer]

I have a few moments right now before having to take MIL somewhere and before next appointment.
Reads-
On my vote
Elusive- voted me when I refused to play along with RQs. Decided I was scum and has been aggressive. Odds are town
Oto/Stab- I don't like this slot. I think Oto was self-focused and selfish. Stab just going along but ends up probably town but don't like it at all.
Wrong Song- comes of as town to me, seems to be legit trying... could be show, but think they are trying. He has the makings of being the next easy run up.
ChaosO- All I can say is inconsistent and is lurking when claimed to be about reactions... still suspicious to me
Untrod Tripod- either lazy lurking town or lurking lazy scum- null

Others
ChaosO voters-
Kop- felt like low hanging fruit to me but feel Cheet made good points... so he was null
Quilford- I was unsettled by some early play, lazy scum or lazy town- lurking
Dinare- efforting, town lean but can easily go another way

Kop voters- Cheetor- comes off 100% and strongest town read for me. GUYinFreezer- not here really... probably town

then there is Reck who has been quiet, disengaged and is parking- so strong scum lean for me ATM
Hito- he sure has some buddies... probably town but could easily be scum.

If I had to pick 3 for scum right now it would be Kop, Reck, and one of Quil, UT
that is all I got at this point.

[xRECKONERx]

lmao

I'll lynch PB, town aren't that wrong are they

[PeaceBringer]

lmao

I'll lynch PB, town aren't that wrong are they

wouldn't expect anything less...
if you are town, where the hell are you?

[PeaceBringer]

lmao

I'll lynch PB, town aren't that wrong are they

and feel free to outline where else you think I am "that wrong" other than calling you a scum suspect...

[xRECKONERx]

i am not going to be participating much on D1, im not exactly known for strong D1s, im going to wait for someone to die then someone else to die then maybe i can figure shit out

[Untrod Tripod]

lmao

I'll lynch PB, town aren't that wrong are they

I would actually expect extreme wrongness to come from dumbtown rather than scum?

usually?

[xRECKONERx]

i feel like his list is 0 for 3 though

like it's that wrong

i dunno maybe he's not scum but like im probably most ok with his lynch atm bc he's so damn wrong that it can't HURT

[PeaceBringer]

I woulda been poking at you day 2 reck---- sorry I seen you give more on day 1... just my thoughts

[Cheetory6]

Spoiler: Oto's Readlist

Otolia's Read List (for Stabulous and everyone else)

EZIC TERRORIST

- Dinare

• Main arguments against
  Dinare
  are in #251. He is opportunistic, and his participation in the game has been coincidental (in my opinion) with either my attacks on him or my own defense.
  The scum I want to lynch today.

EZIC SYMPATHISER

- ChaosOmega, Untrod Tripod

• What has
  ChaosOmega
  done this game ? Nothing. But he did vote me at a time where my wagon was going full throttle. Opportunistic and not involved enough.
  On the lynch list.
  
  
• Speaking of useless people ... we have
  UT
  who's beloved sport consist in posting gifs to mock his target. Didn't brought anything to the game so far between his rhetorical questions and his compulsive need to question people and never follow up on the answer.
  I will not mourn his lynch.

SUSPICIOUS VISA

- Kop, PeaceBringer

• Kop
  is a weird guy. His main argument that my if instead of when is pointless, even more so when you know that my first language is french and
  si
  can be translated as
  if
  or as
  when
  . His last interaction with hito makes me think he could have some town in him. Otherwise wishy-washy plays and not a lot of original thoughts.
  Lynch or Not Lynch, that is the question
  
  
• I had originally put PeaceBringer as a null read but damn that ISO is void. 54 posts of moaning, threats of policy lynching without a lot of analysis. Exactly the type of things I do as scum.
  Full body scanner requested

NO VISA

- GuyInFreezer, Quilford, elusive, Cheetory6

• GiF
  is wanking his noodle in V/LA but still posting in MD for some reason.
  
• I had
  Quilford
  as town earlier but I think it was unwarranted. He is having issue right now.
  Monitoring advised.
  
  
• I don't know how to place elusive right now. Possibly town.
  Let her enter the country
  
  
• Aside from my personal beef and the following whining and bitcing, he has been mostly good.
  Must say Glory to Arstotzkan

VISA IN ORDER

- xRECKONERx, Wrong Song

• RECK
  has exhibited critical thinking faculties and a sharp mind on what's going on. He doesn't seem to be emotionally invested yet. It would benefit town to have him more in the middle of the rumble.
  Probably no lynch today
  
  
• Don't be fooled by
  WrongSong
  's join date, he is likely a veteran and should know MS's meta. He has shown independence and is willing to go against the flow. Quite possibly a scum behavior if it were to continue further in the game.
  What do we say to lynch ? Not today

ARSTOTZKAN

- Hitogoroshi

• Hito
  is my only town read. Good reasonings, good questioning. He still has to rebound after my wagon so that could change my read.
  No Lynch Zone.

---

Otolia's advice to Stabulous

• I was the main wagon. Act as if we could be hammered at any time because hito said his vote was suspended but still present.
  
• Claim only if hito expressively asks you to.
  
• Don't feel confined by my reads.
  
• I will back EVERYTHING you do as long as you don't play against your alignment (aka : please don't self-vote)
  
• Good Luck & Have Fun !

PS : I won't probably post again before my replacement. See you all in a few days.

Let's talk about this readslist. His three main scumspects are Dinare, UT and Chaos, who are literally just people who voted for him [and that's even admittedly part of the reasoning he's given for finding them scummy but hey]. I don't think this is particularly bad or scummy, but I think it's weird that nobody has really brought it up at all.
Next section with Kop and PB is frankly okay.
It's the parts that come afterwards that really irk me. His elusive read is just really really bad. Like. It's in the null section, but he's saying she's possibly town for ????? reasons?? Why is she in the null section then? Why call her townish if you're putting her in the null section of your reads?

[I don't think I bitched and moaned more than him but whatever -.-]

His Reck read doesn't come with any kind of example of where he thinks Reck is exhibiting critical thinking, instead it's literally just a blanket statement with nothing actually behind it that can be critiqued.
His WrongSong read is like what the entire fuck. Like, I actually don't get how this is a townlean for him.
And then his strongest townread he hedges by saying that his read could change there.

Am I saying this readslist is blatantly awfully scummy?
No.
I'm fucking baffled that people started townreading him for it though and I think he's said things before this readlist that were pinging me pretty strong. So, please, someone elaborate on where the mysterious towniness is in this post because I really don't see it.

[Cheetory6]

Reck, talk with me about my case on Kop and Oto's readlist while I ISOdive peacebringer and see what the fuck that is about.

[xRECKONERx]

Otos read list was pretty

[Cheetory6]

Yeah.
Pretty bad.
ooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[xRECKONERx]

Iooooooo

[Cheetory6]

You talking about Kop is more important to me anyways.
Cmon.
Don't be this way.

[elusive]

VOTE: unvoteVOTE:

Hate

[Cheetory6]

Umm I never said I would hammer otolio, cheetory so not sure what your talking about.

I meant you being hesitant on voting otolia because of potential hammering.
Mibad.
How's your posture-y unvote going?

[PeaceBringer]

heh, sure my reads can be shit... I have zero information other than play and where the vote stands. If I make one wrong call on a player that can impact other perceptions. So perhaps my reads are ass backwards... and certainly 1 was triggered by anothers opinion... but those are my best thoughts... I find it interesting that my thoughts even trigger a reaction that they are absolutely wrong... note it dragged reck out of shadows and now he has returned only to show up again at deadline...

[elusive]

VOTE: unvote

Speed of the wagon tells me something

Cheetory don't start what you can't finish

Pb I don't have time to meta you till the weekend

[Cheetory6]

bringiton.
Not even scared.

I find your unvote of the wagon posturey and I want to know why the speed of a wagon has any merit on your read on PB.

[Cheetory6]

Halfway through PB-ISO,

and things have change since I posted that vote, almost voted oto...
may as well inform him of intent to put at L-1may as well claim oto...
or you can sit around and hope folks change their mind...

Scratching my head.
What was the thought process here PB? Walk me through this.

so you are an anti-town jerk then I see...
anyone who takes such a stand I will vote for on policy as it is anti-game and antitown...
just stupid!
Vote oto...

I thought this was weird at first, but his follow-up here kind of paints a picture for me:

I don't like the manipulative I won't f-ing claim on day one bullshit. Everyone gets run up day one soon or later. Folks playing that game is just BS manipulative crap. It is antitown and antigame and it pisses me off. The game is all about running someone up, getting a claim and evaluate. All anyone has on day one is will speculation... to claim otherwise is bullshit. And I hate refusals to claim and will not budge if someone is pulling that shit.

From earlier posts in the day, PB was saying that he'd just come back from a hiatus and I kind of get the impression that he's used to being run up a lot as either alignment and has residual annoyance from that? I think him getting pissed off at Otolia here makes sense to me in that context? I think it makes sense to me that he'd be mad as either scum or town so kind of feeling null about it overall.

Oto, you drew attention to yourself day 1 with you play, you get runup, you claim, town evaluates and either you get lynced or we move on

Him saying this kind of stuff makes it hard to take much away from his early claim as it comes across as more of a playstyle thing. For the record, I don't think anyone should claim before intent is given for a hammer in the future tia to everyone.

The worst thing that I can see about PB is the fact that his vote seems really sticky and it doesn't seem like he's actually doing much scumhunting from what I've read so far.
Feeling resoundingly null on him atm.

[PeaceBringer]

VOTE: unvote

Speed of the wagon tells me something

Cheetory don't start what you can't finish

Pb I don't have time to meta you till the weekend

it was just a poke as I was skimmed things over and thought about my reads...

[PeaceBringer]

Scratching my head.What was the thought process here PB? Walk me through this.

I have stated my thought process multiple times but it is hard to get through cultural perspectives and different elements in play including concepts of "intent to hammer." I come from a culture where folks get run up and once reach a run up point they would never be given time to get off the hook and not claim. When folks get let off the hook they can be a distraction. If you are at claiming point you claim, like I did today. I simply wanted a claim and rather than even the usual pussy-footing around that occurs, it comes out with a flat out refusal to claim and that pissed me off. I have another closed game where someone put themself before the game and cost a power role. I hate when people think there own selfish motivation and "meta" play is more important then this game. But my thoughts there, claim time, lets pressure claim and not let someone off the hook. Oh, and lately around this culture town-folks have quickly hammered without "intent to hammer." I don't trust folks around "hammer" and my culture, hammers without claim have happened numerous times. My culture is fast paced and day 1's are mostly schtick, running someone up "just because" and then sorting things out. Around here folks pick a nit and pick at it as an excuse to run up. Not much different at the core and I had to come to an understanding of that to even be able to play in this culture which is weird for me. I do play for reactions and am an easy run-up as people really at first do not know how to read me, so runup pressure and lynches happen. MY frustrations are not over that as it occurs regardless of culture and am used to that. My frustrations are the things that are beyond me that really to me do not make any sense game-wise and added on to self-important plays that are all about "meta" reasons then anything related to THIS GAME.

[Cheetory6]

What exactly is your culture? Where else do you play mafia if you don't mind me asking?