Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Yosarian2]

I thought a lot of the switches were just chock full of WIFOM goodness. Besides the disrupting of investigations, I didn't read much further into it. And the targets were both Guardian and Yos, and for all we know both or neither are scum. But the messing up of the investigations just made it so that either scum were trying to dodge a bullet, or just make it so there were no confirmed townies. Either would hurt them imo.

Well, note that the scum would have had no way of knowing who CTD was targeting.

[petroleumjelly]

Ya, questions.

1.) Why tell Yos2 to "not have meetings" when you could have just said "don't let people direct Jack for you" / "don't give information to somebody in isolation so that we're forced to trust their word in the case you die"? Your method seems unnecessarily roundabout.

2.) Why did you make the comment of "if you die I'll look town"?

3.) Do you currently think there was a hack, or do you think it was faked?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well. I don't agree with ABR's response about the office meetings - specifically because

I doubt Yos2 would let somebody determine where Jack goes if he does not know that players' alignment

- but the fact that you had a somewhat logical answer forces me to double-think, because I could not think of a single reason why anybody would suggest the Director do anything

but

have as many meetings as possible. I would think that the best way to catch scum [if I were in the Director's position] would be talk to each player one-on-one and see if their attitude/behavior changes or to see if they slip up in direct discussion as opposed to forum discussion.

Unvote: Albert B. Rampage

, I'll have to give this a think. I'll prolly have more questions.

Petrom, I understand your disbelief of my statement, but I think the one thing that I can say that would convince you, is that

Yosarian did that very thing

. He trusted Kenetic, and sent Jack EXACTLY where Kenetic told him to, without thinking, without a second opinion, nothing. When I asked Yosarian about this, he simply replied "meh I had a town read of Kenetic at the time". This makes me trust Kenetic more, in exchange for credibility points from Yos.

[Yosarian2]

Ok. Ibby said she'll come back before the deadline and vote. I'll most likely be asleep by then, so she might end up being the deciding vote, if isn't decided before then.

Yosarian, wtf dude...seriously. Way to defend FA.

...what the hell are you talking about?

[Guardian]

Guardian: At the beginning of day 1 you voted for OTM (after proclaiming him town day 0) for ... supporting your bid for Director because you felt that he was only doing so in order to get appointed to crypto. You continued to say you were suspicious of him within your next few posts, then you made this post. How did OTM suddenly become not a priority?

Ok, don't expect externally "good" thinking, but as far as I can remember my internally consistent thinking was as follows:

I went to the beach and a lot of pages happened before I came back in, and I very, very foolishly tried to get by without a careful re-read at that time. OTM seemed at least in skimming that he was at least trying to help out, and had legitimate reasons behind his actions. It is odd that he is defending me now and that he voted me earlier in the day, but it *seems* like his actions are making sense and trying to help the town. If that is actually true, I dunno. Spambot seemed like he had been lurking and others were suspicious of him for that, so I voted him.

Later, on the same page, then people asked me questions that I obviously hadn't read in enough detail so I unvoted. I know that looked bad, but I figured I really had goofed and needed to re-read.

My main reason for undoing suspicion of OTM was that OTM actually explained how he wasn't trying to exploit coming in last, and that his reasons for me as director were legitimate, and again while not all his reads were great (heck knows all mine are not in this game) he seemed to at least have been trying to be helpful.

[petroleumjelly]

Petrom, I understand your disbelief of my statement, but I think the one thing that I can say that would convince you, is that Yosarian did that very thing. He trusted Kenetic, and sent Jack EXACTLY where Kenetic told him to, without thinking, without a second opinion, nothing. When I asked Yosarian about this, he simply replied "meh I had a town read of Kenetic at the time". This makes me trust Kenetic more, in exchange for credibility points from Yos.

Yos2, did this happen? You sent Jack where Kinetic asked? What Hour? Was this when Jack was ambushed, or did nothing happen?

Sorry I have to keep asking these questions everybody but me seems to know the answers to, but I don't have a full grasp on everything that's happened yet.

[Guardian]

Yos, if you have anything you want to ask me or whatnot, go ahead. I am available for an office session .



Albert and FA could be scum, I prefer an FA lynch, and will be willing to switch my vote at deadline to cause a lynch (even if it is mislynching me -- I think we need a lynch that badly).

So if it is near deadline and you are like hmm, well FA has only 4 votes, but I prefer him: no worries, I will be there to hammer.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ya, questions.

1.) Why tell Yos2 to "not have meetings" when you could have just said "don't let people direct Jack for you" / "don't give information to somebody in isolation so that we're forced to trust their word in the case you die"? Your method seems unnecessarily roundabout.

2.) Why did you make the comment of "if you die I'll look town"?

3.) Do you currently think there was a hack, or do you think it was faked?

1) Because there are a number of different scenarios where Yos could have screwed us over. What if a counter-intelligence confirms a townie to Yosarian at the same time as an FBI, and then Yos is murdered after meeting with two more people ? Okay its a bad example, but I know there are different scenarios where meeting many different people, or everyone, would be bad.

2) Because at the time he was under investigation by xdaamno(which I had exclusive knowledge of), and I thought I would be the one to receive the information regarding Yos' alignment. I wanted Yos to think I thought he was town, so he didn't order his goons to kill me, were he scum. Were he town, that statement would have still held.

3) I am not sure about the hack, I'd say its 50/50, but I do know that Yosarian is playing scummy for his usual self, and I do know that FA is acting even scummier by use of craplogic and ad hominem to discredit his attackers. eg: he said something to the effect of "I am being accused by the 2 scummiest players, oh my", and this wasn't an isolated occurance. He uses this kind of things all the time, just look at his posts.

If someone has truly read both mine and his posts, his posts are just flimsy, flaky excuses to attack my credibility.

[Yosarian2]

Petrom, I understand your disbelief of my statement, but I think the one thing that I can say that would convince you, is that

Yosarian did that very thing

. He trusted Kenetic, and sent Jack EXACTLY where Kenetic told him to, without thinking, without a second opinion, nothing. When I asked Yosarian about this, he simply replied "meh I had a town read of Kenetic at the time". This makes me trust Kenetic more, in exchange for credibility points from Yos.

Um, that's not all I repled, at all. I also explained why I really don't think a scum would be willing to sacricice himself just in order to set up an attack on Jack Bauer. All in all, it seemed really unlikely to me that it was a scum gambit. Would you have thought otherwise?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yos, if you have anything you want to ask me or whatnot, go ahead. I am available for an office session .



Albert and FA could be scum, I prefer an FA lynch, and will be willing to switch my vote at deadline to cause a lynch (even if it is mislynching me -- I think we need a lynch that badly).

So if it is near deadline and you are like hmm, well FA has only 4 votes, but I prefer him: no worries, I will be there to hammer.

Dude, come on man, its not over, the town can push for a FA lynch. Do it. FOLLOW YOUR HEART, GUARDIAN!!!! FOLLOW THE MELODY THAT SINGS "LYNCH FA" INSTEAD OF CHASING ALBERT THROUGH THE LOST WOODS OF KOKIRI.

[Kinetic]

PJ: It was when we were talking about sending jack to that Museum. My idea, which I relayed to Yos, was that we say in the thread why not send him there, but to have Yos really send him to the place across the street and to inform Jack of this and see if anything happens at the museum.

It was designed to see if Jack could capture a terrorist and sort of spring a trap on his trap, but also to see if something happened at the Museum. Since only Yos and myself were in on it, and I was fairly certain Yos was town, I suggested it.

I thought, worst case scenario, if Jack got ambushed at the mall, there would only be 2-3 people who could have said anything. Myself, Yos, or if a SIA was looking in then the Crypto who deciphered that.

In the end, nothing happened though because in part I think OTM got everyone scared to do anything.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Petrom, I understand your disbelief of my statement, but I think the one thing that I can say that would convince you, is that

Yosarian did that very thing

. He trusted Kenetic, and sent Jack EXACTLY where Kenetic told him to, without thinking, without a second opinion, nothing. When I asked Yosarian about this, he simply replied "meh I had a town read of Kenetic at the time". This makes me trust Kenetic more, in exchange for credibility points from Yos.

Um, that's not all I repled, at all. I also explained why I really don't think a scum would be willing to sacricice himself just in order to set up an attack on Jack Bauer. All in all, it seemed really unlikely to me that it was a scum gambit. Would you have thought otherwise?

Look, you trusted Kenetic with information that could have potentially brought us

nothing

. Do you acknowledge that ? Do you understand that if you were NK'd, the town would have traded Jack risking his life, a potential scum, and I'm sure I'm missing something but my fingers are typing faster then my brain is thinking.

You have made a mistake, and have made an anti-town move and could have jeopardized CTU if scum were smart enough(assuming your not scum)

[Albert B. Rampage]

PJ: It was when we were talking about sending jack to that Museum. My idea, which I relayed to Yos, was that we say in the thread why not send him there, but to have Yos really send him to the place across the street and to inform Jack of this and see if anything happens at the museum.

It was designed to see if Jack could capture a terrorist and sort of spring a trap on his trap, but also to see if something happened at the Museum. Since only Yos and myself were in on it, and I was fairly certain Yos was town, I suggested it.

I thought, worst case scenario, if Jack got ambushed at the mall, there would only be 2-3 people who could have said anything. Myself, Yos, or if a SIA was looking in then the Crypto who deciphered that.

In the end, nothing happened though because in part I think OTM got everyone scared to do anything.

Yeah well you've done nothing wrong. Its Yos' reaction to what you said that makes him look scummy. And Yos has been backing FA a long time, so if FA is town, hell, put me in detention until you can lynch me.

[Yosarian2]

Yos2, did this happen? You sent Jack where Kinetic asked? What Hour? Was this when Jack was ambushed, or did nothing happen?

Sorry I have to keep asking these questions everybody but me seems to know the answers to, but I don't have a full grasp on everything that's happened yet.

It happened hour 5; Kentic suggested a plan where we might be able to use Jack to catch some bad guys by making the thread think I was going to send him to the Museum of Natural History, while I actually sent Jack to the Mall, across the street, where he could watch and see if any bad guys went. I quoted that part of the PM'd conversation I had with Kenetic back in post 1230.

[Kinetic]

Also, Albert, at that time I was a Field Agent and I was protecting Yos, he was perfectly safe.

[petroleumjelly]

*sigh* I'm already much less sure about ABR. I

can

see where he's coming from, and his fears about scum manipulation of the Director role seem legitimate.

I think we have a little less than three real-time hours until deadline, and I plan to be a near a computer for all of that time. Feel free to ask me questions, if there are any.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yos2, did this happen? You sent Jack where Kinetic asked? What Hour? Was this when Jack was ambushed, or did nothing happen?

Sorry I have to keep asking these questions everybody but me seems to know the answers to, but I don't have a full grasp on everything that's happened yet.

It happened hour 5; Kentic suggested a plan where we might be able to use Jack to catch some bad guys by making the thread think I was going to send him to the Museum of Natural History, while I actually sent Jack to the Mall, across the street, where he could watch and see if any bad guys went. I quoted that part of the PM'd conversation I had with Kenetic back in post 1230.

EXACTLY. Kenetic told you where to send Jack, he told you where to tell the town you would send Jack, he told you not to tell anyone, and you followed his instructions to the letter without a question. We've all seen the records, he suggested the whole setup. The least you could have done, Yosarian, was to send him to the f****ing K-mart somewhere completely unrelated to where he said and used Kenetic's plan. THE WORSE, is that you even TOLD HIM, confirmed to him that you followed his instructions to the letter. YOU EVEN SENT HIM THE EXACT ORDERS that were going to Jack.


(sorry for caps eh ? )

[Yosarian2]

Look, you trusted Kenetic with information that could have potentially brought us

nothing

. Do you acknowledge that ? Do you understand that if you were NK'd, the town would have traded Jack risking his life, a potential scum, and I'm sure I'm missing something but my fingers are typing faster then my brain is thinking.

Eh...I didn't really think it was that likely the scum could have killed right after they hacked; this was hour 5, remember. If they could kill and hack in the same 4 hour period, they probably already would have killed someone by that point.

Like I said; I thought it was likely he was town, and even if I was wrong about that, I just couldn't see it as being a scum gambit. It wouldn't make any sense as one, anyway.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Also, Albert, at that time I was a Field Agent and I was protecting Yos, he was perfectly safe.

WIFOM. Nobody knew who you were protecting, and the sole person in charge of his safety is suggesting a plan like that ? And Yosarian doesn't think twice ? THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE.

Damnit I have to go to sleep soon, let's draw this to a conclusion.

[Kinetic]

That's not true. I knew who I was protecting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Eh...I didn't really think it was that likely the scum could have killed right after they hacked; this was hour 5, remember. If they could kill and hack in the same 4 hour period, they probably already would have killed someone by that point.

Like I said; I thought it was likely he was town, and even if I was wrong about that, I just couldn't see it as being a scum gambit. It wouldn't make any sense as one, anyway.

This is absolutely wrong, and if you do so again you will put CTU in massive danger.

You don't trust anyone unless you have proof that they are with you. You can SAY you trust them, like I did, but ANYTHING YOU SAY IS CAMOUFLAGE IN THIS GAME. You don't actually do it damnit. You don't trust someone with such a potentially dangerous plan like that.

Scum not being able to hack and kill is pure speculation - just as much as my theory that you staged the whole thing is based on nothing but gut.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's not true. I knew who I was protecting.

Yes but if you were scum, it wouldn't make a damn difference. You would just stop protecting him, let your scumbudies silence him and voila, Jack injured, director dead, Guardian director, scum escapes with no one CTU can suspect.

Look at it from Yos' angle at that moment. Would you have done what he did ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Damnit someone mispelled your name and I call you Kenetic for the rest of the game

Kinetic, if Yos were scum, do you think he would hesitate to accuse you in a critical end game situation of setting him up to do something that would result in a disaster ? "Kinetic told me to do it, and I had a town read of him at the time" sounds like the perfect way to seed an attack on you as scum. I'm pleading with you, please vote FA

[Kinetic]

-.- >> I'm totally unsure. I really don't think Yos is scum, but that does make some sense... But I am so sure that Guardian IS scum...

Bleh, I'm going to think it over.

[Kinetic]

Unvote

For now. I'll be here before deadline.