Newbie 1596: Exotic Birds (Game Over)

[Plotinus]

I just went back to see what I wrote. It was in 161, and I was totally crumbing that I'd tracked BBT in that post.

I think it was good for you to keep scumhunting me -- maybe my answers helped to say other people's opinions of me (for better or for worse but based on my own merits). It also helped you to figure out whether my crumbs were honest or not, because scum can crumb too. This game might have gone pretty differently if saad hadn't used that damn cop smiley in post 40. And I do think if I'd been considered obvtown like I was last game then I'd have been nightkilled sooner.

I think when the game is over I would like feedback on how to play a powerrole because this was my first time. And also about how obvious my crumbs were (especially from BBT, skold, and singer) because I felt like maybe I was subtle enough early on and that I got progressively more obvious about it until the end -- I don't think I was very subtle at all during day 3, even at the beginning of the day. And also advice on when I should have claimed, if I should have done so sooner than I did. My reasoning was that I should claim with my results if it would prevent a mislynch but if we mostly had it figured it out then I should try to dodge the night kill for another night.

[Plotinus]

I'm beginning to understand why some people like the Amished tell.

(though I think I would always look at my predecessor too. If I'm town, that person is the only person in the game who is modconfirmed town to me so why wouldn't I take their opinions into account? And if scum then of course I'd want to have my story straight. so it's a null tell for me.)

[Wanderer-nl]

I blame Wyv too, totally uncool to leave your team, whether it's town or scum, like that.

[millar13]

I blame Wyv too, totally uncool to leave your team, whether it's town or scum, like that.

whether its town or scum?

i thought i was scum?
hella-confused

[Wanderer-nl]

Oh didn't see the new page there.
Yeah that cop-smiley confused me for a while but it didn't take me very long to figure out it was not a softclaim. Wyvernite really pushed on that 'misinterpretation' as if he was trying to figure out if saad was actually softclaiming. I brought this up day 2 but focused on the real misinterpretation. I'm way too hesitant to speculate about PR's..

PEdit: @millar: I was speaking in generalities. I'm still convinced you're scum.

[millar13]

then hammer me.

[Plotinus]

sshe can't. she's already voting you. we're waiting on skold or argos.

[millar13]

well skold will hammer me. and town loses. well done idiots

[Plotinus]

I figured it wasn't in post 85 when he claimed "villager" because if he was scum crumbing cop he should have claimed cop, but everyone was suspicious of him and he was acting suspicious (which I think was just a personality thing for him). and then when DCL started quoting

my

crumbs I got a lot more suspicious again. I missed that about wyvernite before, but looking at it again it looks right. I should have paid attention to who else was reacting to that smiley. Mofo reacted: he voted saad right after that. and wyvernite reacted.

and then in 47 saad said "you are misinterpreting what i'm saying" which made me think of fromage's "how closely are you reading this thread".

[Skold]

VOTE: Milar
Argos tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

Vote Count 3.F

millar13 3 (Wanderer-nl, Plotinus, Skold)

Skold 1 (millar13)

Not Voting 1 (Argos)

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2015-05-16 14:00:00).

millar13 the Vanilla Townie has been lynched Day 3

Wanderer-nl the Vanilla Townie and Plotinus the Town Tracker have been endgamed

The mafia team (Argos and Skold) have won!

[millar13]

plot and wanderer lol

[singersigner]

I'm fucking tired of losing as town. GG all.

[Wanderer-nl]

I was really sure but ok.

[Wanderer-nl]

@Mod

Thanks for modding!
And thanks all for playing.

[Plotinus]

Thanks mod

We were right the first time. we shouldn't have gone back to wyv. Next time we'll do better.

Good game everyone.

Wanderer, I really want to be scum with you sometime.

[Wanderer-nl]

I would like some feedback to my play please, I've completed enough games to SE in newbies but not sure if I'm ready yet.

[Wanderer-nl]

@Plotinus: yeah I think that will be fun.

[Plotinus]

thanks for to millar and dcl for subbing in. I'm really sorry we didn't believe you guys.


pedit: me too about feedback.

[singersigner]

You guys did a really good job at keeping the discussion open. Obviously I'm not perfect because I got sucked into the wrong reads at one point, but I think the only piece of advice I would give is something that's really common for people to overlook. Lurkers. It became really obvious that Argos and Skold were basically only popping in when they were of serious discussion or when someone addressed them personally. I know I do that too sometimes because I don't always have original content, so it's all about interpreting how and why, I guess.

Also, voting in lylo is just hard. You guys were really conscious of it, and then all of a sudden it seemed to go downhill really quickly. Lylo is one of the few days I will encourage literally as much discussion as possible, to get it all out on the table. Challenge people's ideas. Skold got a way with excusing a lot of his reads as "gut" which in lylo, should be the most pertinent time for someone town trying to win the game, to get it all out there on the table.

What confirmed it for me was when he was setting up the "common denominator" which always tends to come from scum. They just want the mislynch, so whatever will get anyone off their scum buddy or them they'll try to manipulate. Also, also, his not-so-subtle trying to get Argos to counterclaim Plot for the win, haha. Could've worked! But ended up not needing it anyway.

I don't know what the win rate for newbies is, but the only game I've won in the last year almost was a scum game, which is really hard to do as an IC, lol. I think newbies just generally look scummier, so it tends to be easier for mislynches to happen if you have the right mistakes or the right people to manipulate them.

Overall, I'm proud of how you guys tried to work together to parse out the end of the game, even if it didn't work out in our favor.

Scum team...there's not a whole lot I can say except good job at flying under the radar and choosing the right night kills? I feel bad for not really having much more praise to your play, but I think this is one of those instances where town imploded more than scum being above average. But at least this is a learning opportunity for bettering your next scum game when it doesn't come down to town's mistakes.

[Plotinus]

What Wanderer and me were trying to do:

In our last game we were in a 5 person LYLO situation and we agreed that everyone should say who they wanted to vote for, and we had 4 out of 5 who strongly wanted to vote for one player. after lots of discussion and figuring out (preflip) who the scumbuddy was, we voted that player. And they flipped town, and House explained to us that if 4 out of 5 people in LYLO are happy with voting for one person that means at least one scum and we should ask ourselves why that is, because scum would rather win on day 3 than bus and then win on day 4 because that means another day of LYLO and another day of having to dodge suspicion when it's much easier to just win right now.

preview-edit: thanks for the feedback, singer. You're right that we missed those things about the scum team.

[Plotinus]

@Skold: why did you do the night kill instead of Argos?

[Cephrir]

Quick thoughts!

I thought Plotinus and Wanderer played well. They may not have always been right, but at the end they were putting it together and had it right at first. I was quite confused by the singer nightkill over either of them, they looked obviously town and unlynchable to me on Day 2. I didn't really get the BBT kill, either, though I don't know what alternative I would've suggested at that point.

millar kinda dug himself a hole, and I don't blame Plotinus and Wanderer for lynching him. In particular, his lack of caution snap voting without reading the whole thread was gross.

I thought the scum played okay. It was evidently good enough, but they were very close to getting caught. Skold's 602 practically openly begging Argos to claim tracker gave me a good laugh, I'm almost surprised no one picked up on it. At the time I thought Argos should indeed claim tracker -- it wouldn't have been a great move in a void, but with millar wanting so badly to lynch Plotinus they could have taken it home pretty easily that way in my opinion.

DCL, you did what you could with what you were given. Good try, but you replaced into a really difficult position. I thought Reubus' replace out was quite town personally, but apparently others' mileage may vary (and I also exchanged a few PMs with him about it, so I probably had an unfair advantage on top of knowing his alignment, so).

Day 1 was just really unfortunate. It happens, especially in newbie games, so just take it as a lesson -- always count the votes first.

[Cephrir]

The scum mostly sat back and let the town blow itself up, yes. But hey, you can't argue with results.

[singersigner]

@Plotinus...the running commentary in your head that just seemed to flow through your fingers out onto the keyboard was good in keeping your thoughts transparent, but there were moments where I was wondering exactly how much of that was a ruse to hide behind. I always encourage being as honest as possible, which you did to the extend that I could see the wheels running in your head. I felt like you were taking the time to look over every possibility, and then genuine with how you then discussed those options with us. Obviously voting was an issue, but again, I've seen town make those mistakes before. I think scum are more likely to be more thorough and NOT make those kind of mistakes because they don't want them to bite them in the butt later. Part of my initial suspicion of Skold was his comment about "why aren't we talking about the derphammer." It felt like he was discouraged scum who didn't get to make an obvious mislynch candidate happen. Hindsight is 20/20, though.

@Wanderer...I think you were the happy medium with Plotinus. You were able to be engaged and thoughtful, and transparent with your thoughts in a more succinct way. I'll have to go back and ISO you, but honestly, the two of you were the two reads I barely wavered on.

Preview Edit:
Agreed on all accounts with Cephir.