Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Quilford]

those are my guesses

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm trying really hard not to simply see this as the end product of a realisation that Patrick and Mina really don't look like they're gonna budge on me today, and so she will be lynched unless she takes drastic measures

but it's hard

this literally makes zero sense as a viable scum tactic.

[Mina]

Sorry, I was afk.

But that's talk for somewhere else

That wasn't breaking rules

It's not breaking rules--see zoraster's announcement:

All participants may discuss the Nightless game openly in the other games.

Speaking of which, I'm waiting to confirm something before I discuss something else from there.

[Mina]

So ETL, it's not that you don't think Quilford is scum, just that you now think Patrick is scummier? But just talk. I prefer to hear your thought process when I'm not trying to push it in a certain direction. You're being very cryptic.

(And yes, for Patrick's benefit--although given I think he's contributed roughly the same amount I have, I really don't think the condescension is fair--ETL is where I'm leaning right now. But since when do I ever have a strong sense of direction of where to push? I like doing things the slow way.)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So ETL, it's not that you don't think Quilford is scum, just that you now think Patrick is scummier? But just talk. I prefer to hear your thought process when I'm not trying to push it in a certain direction. You're being very cryptic.

sorry. i'm not trying to be cryptic.

ok so the biggest issue right now is the fact that patrick's attack on me contains absolutely no valid reasons. a lot of it is close to utter nonsense ("your logic makes babies cry", "you are scum because i think you are scum"). It's all really ... very bad. At least quil has references and legitimate questions. I don't feel like Patrick has brought up anything legitimate regarding my play and then refusing to discuss it.

i had a chance to chat with sthar last night/yesterday for a bit as well, and he is of the firm belief that quil and i are simply butting heads as a play style thing and quil clearly doesn't know how to read me.

its more that i'm questioning whether i have been tunneling on quil and ignoring patrick. gut instinct is that i want to lynch the fuck out of quil, but my brain is goin "don't disregard the reads of someone who is not involved emotionally". does that make sense?

[Mina]

I got a very, very different impression from Patrick's posts (given that I and my team basically agree with him on your exchange with Quilford). (And to specify, I meant that Patrick's contributed roughly the same amount this day phase.)

Metal Sonic, here are five Quilford ISOs from completed games, in random order (unfortunately, you have to copy and paste them into the URL bar):

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

I want you to read them individually, without cheating. Spot which (if any) are town and which (if any) are scum (obviously, by the end, you'll know, but post impressions as you go).

Also:

1) Like Patrick said, do you think both serra AND JF would be strongly townreading their buddy the entire game?
2) What do you think about this post from JF:

Didn't read the whole ISO because it's big (and was super confused because I thought he was in a hydra but figured it out) but I can see what you're getting at, Mina. Two holes I could poke in reading his current scum game from that one is the fact that it's so old and the fact that he had to reconcile with N's game. Still on the Quil town train though.

[Mina]

Omigod, this game is much more peaceful when MS is asleep. But Metal Sonic, for when you get back, did you post anything about this game in your team's PT on D1 or D2?

[Patrick]

Sorry for the condascension. I've just got increasingly frustrated with the bullshit piling up in this game, and felt like the game was waiting mainly on you, regardless of any comparisons between my contribution and yours. I'm normally an advocate of taking it slowly as well.

I got 100% on the mini test! To be fair, I knew the right answer already in two.

[Metal Sonic]

Omigod, this game is much more peaceful when MS is asleep. But Metal Sonic, for when you get back, did you post anything about this game in your team's PT on D1 or D2?

Short stuff about "quil is scum" and a bit of "alch is town" on d1

Will do mini test later

[Metal Sonic]

To answer 1) and 2)

Everyone and their mother was townreading quil at that time. JF would be dumb to not give a townread on quil as well. The problem is that their reasons for doing so are ~magic~

Remember how I was townreading Zar early too. Then after ooba d4 ATTACK I got desperate and called him scum. Only on d7 when everyone called him town then I easily shifted "oh yeah cool Zar is town"

So YES, it's very likely that Serra and JF were townreading their partner the entire game most especially when everyone else was doing so too

[Metal Sonic]

Mina

Quil vs ETL reminds me of me vs GREYICE . All that "lol ur scum cause contradictions" bullshit. It was NOT TVT, despite what I'd like everyone to think.

[Metal Sonic]

And I would have gotten away with it too but FUCK THE FUCKING NNIGHTLESS

[Quilford]

Stop comparing your scum play to my hypothetical scum play, AGAIN

[Quilford]

I'm trying really hard not to simply see this as the end product of a realisation that Patrick and Mina really don't look like they're gonna budge on me today, and so she will be lynched unless she takes drastic measures

but it's hard

this literally makes zero sense as a viable scum tactic.

great explanation

[Metal Sonic]

Stop comparing your scum play to my hypothetical scum play, AGAIN

If my scum play = your current town play then I now understand how I manage to destroy town with it


DIE

[Quilford]

Hurry up and do Mina's test

[Metal Sonic]

maybe later I hate tests

[Quilford]

With the deadline now under 24 hours, there is rapidly becoming no later. Do it already.

[Metal Sonic]

I hope they quicklynch you

That's how they caught scum

[Metal Sonic]

Your play this entire game is scummy as fuck

Now you have to fall back on your last line of defense, meta


Meta defense against a non meta attack

Is barely evidence

[Mina]

Argh, Metal Sonic gave me the answer that makes me paranoid rather than confirm himself as town.

Anyway, something I couldn't post about, but from the Nightless:

Alchemist swaps in for Albert B. Rampage.

Huh! this is allowed! I should have done that when i was crying

but it is a one-shot thing. maybe i shouldnt.


hi alchemist!! I reade you as a bit town in your game but wasnt strong enough to call molla to STOP YOUR WAGON. I was right

First, WTF WAS WRONG WITH YOU?

Second, at the time, I thought I was potentially compromised, although it didn't matter much because I wouldn't go miles near lynching BBmolla. Then after getting mod permission, I tried prompting BBmolla for his team's reads in 1016, and actually became paranoid it was a

scumtell

when he made no mention of MS's Alchemist read in his responses. And when I asked for what they said on Day 1, Molla went, Nah, I didn't need the help.

But now, Metal Sonic says:

Omigod, this game is much more peaceful when MS is asleep. But Metal Sonic, for when you get back, did you post anything about this game in your team's PT on D1 or D2?

Short stuff about "quil is scum" and a bit of "alch is town" on d1

Vague enough that it's not necessarily a contradiction, but still, Molla made it sound like his teammates said NOTHING about this game.

THAT SAID, leaving aside that rereading to find those quotes gave me some really town-sounding Molla posts, Metal Sonic's entry to this game immediately reassured me:

in day 1 i thought alchey was townish! and quilford was a skeevy scumbag. but i wasnt so caught up in the game and was busy with my own so i didnt assert myself onto molla

turns out i was right about alchey

probably the same about quil

there a lot of evidence against him


this setup DOES NOT favor bussing at all. so yea, the 2 scums will be pretty close knit tight family

[/quote]
Believe me...Metal Sonic was the opposite of consistent in the Vanilla Nightless game. It's hard to tell given I was skimming his posts and had no motivation to genuinely scumhunt him, but his reads were really all over the place, and he'd contradict himself a lot. He was good at bravado and activity and looking town through boldness, but not so good at the logical side--he scumslipped on Page One.

So I can see him potentially faking a read on this game in the Nightless to clear Molla. But the fact that he made a comment like this IN ANOTHER GAME and then followed up on it here doesn't seem like his modus operandi.

[Mina]

*Metal Sonic's

scum

modus operandi, I mean.

And I started rereading the game tonight. Only on like page eight, but MS, sorry, I'm going nowhere NEAR lynching Quilford today.

[Metal Sonic]

I got a warning for that lol

[Mina]

You're welcome.

An example of a really town Quilford post:

Or...

I'd never played with Patrick before, so I was uncertain what to make of his unemotional, straightforward play.

After I meta'd him, I saw that he didn't tend to be very emotional as either town or scum, so I was able to factor out his lack of emotion, which gave me a stronger townread on him.

Another example of a town Quilford post:
ALL THE ONES WHERE HE'S POSTING AND GETTING EMOTIONAL AND BEING TRANSPARENT, BECAUSE HE'S REALLY EASY TO READ, DAMMIT.

[Metal Sonic]

Molla wasnt a good message sender

Especially when his top scumread was alchey I don't think he bothered to place my read

Plus I only made a side comment in the pt.

But let's not play blame games, I want quilford dead today