Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

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Post Post #5750 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:11 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

In post 5748, TellTaleHeart wrote:Unless that opinion comes with a cop innocent or a reason other than "she posts a lot" or any variant thereof, I'm not going to put any stock in it.


And if that had been the only thing that I'd just said like five posts ago, that would be fine.
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Post Post #5751 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:12 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

In post 5749, Titus wrote:@CDB Can you put your reads up then? I'll place my Singer case I'm working on in spoilers. You can skip it if you want.

If we're going to agree, we need to figure it out fast. We'll pick one person we are all not townreading. That's very likely to hit scum, even if we're all compromising a bit.


I told you, I'm working on it, and there's enough in my recent iso for you to have a good enough idea for the time being.
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Post Post #5752 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:26 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

I only feel more strongly about my singer read on engagement grounds given that my team just finished a gruelling battle to avoid a Quilford mislynch in Twin Trap, when meta was clearly on our side no matter what the (town) person pushing his case relentlessly said. Things like this
do
work out when they're this fundamental and obvious, and singer is hella town.
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Post Post #5753 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:29 am

Post by Titus »

To be fair, Quilford and BB were hella scummy there.
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Post Post #5754 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:30 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 5746, Titus wrote:
In post 5739, ChannelDelibird wrote:Not lynching singer, probably ever. Empire looked town, his replace-in is town, singer's engagement is
way
too high for her to be scum. Not doing it. Nope. No siree. No thank you. Nada.


Really, I'm a high volume poster regardless of my alignment. *sigh* Engagement alone, unless you can link it to the gamestate is NOT alignment indicative. Singer had to engage, She was wagoned.

There was zero wagon on me when I replaced into the game. My activity level has not changed since then. Try again. :]

I'd really rather you actually make a case before pandering to everyone to see if it's even worth it. Like...let's do some comparatives, shall we? You've said that town would do x (like going MIA and not voting) and scum would do y (like placing a stale vote on someone), but what about Gamma's insistence that town would make cases and push the people they actually think are scum despite claims to the contrary? Do you disagree with this? Why haven't you actually put what you have on the line and actually pushed me as scum if you
really
believe that I'm scum. Instead you've resigned to easy pushes that have garnered plenty of support at the time (UT, Aronis, Espy, AD mildly at one point, TSO "because Ffery said so"). Not once have you actually gone against the grain and pushed me in any significant way. And now you still wouldn't unless people have already convinced themselves that I could be scum and support you in it, instead of trying to convince the people who might be "blindsighted" by me to actually change their minds.
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Post Post #5755 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:31 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

In post 5753, Titus wrote:To be fair, Quilford and BB were hella scummy there.


hahahahahahahaha

molla somewhat, quilford no. you don't get to have this argument, we were so right
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Post Post #5756 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:39 am

Post by Titus »

@Singer, I've been pushing you the ENTIRE game. I've just said I'm not drowning the thread with this until there's support. I was the first to push TSO. Was I wrong, yes, but I wasn't compromising there. You were sweety. I love how you magically appear every single time I'm trying to coordinate the group together.

@CDB, *shrug* It's a pointless detour, I was just saying I understood what people were thinking that game. I followed it after my death. I am kicking myself for not seeing ETL as scum sooner because she didn't defend Alch like I thought she would. I was too busy caught in my own tunnel on Quil and BB.
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Post Post #5757 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:43 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Yeah I get it, I'm just saying it is totally legit for me to see the anti-singer brigade and point out that, no, that's not what she's like as scum, doesn't matter which nits you pick. she's town, enjoy
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Post Post #5758 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:48 am

Post by Titus »

We'll just wait on your list. You, me TTH, Mastina and Shadoweh can put together a lynchpool based on that.

I'm not saying that it's not ok to disagree with me at all. No one is. You just need more to persuade.
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Post Post #5759 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:53 am

Post by singersigner »

@Cheetory...why your change of heart with Titus?

@Titus...did you just call me sweety? :igmeou:

@CDB...it's fine, you don't need to go balls deep to defend me. She has even less support than she did the first time, and even less ammo because I've stripped it away from her. Don't waste your efforts. Talk to me about why she's town, though. Is it because she's now including you in the townblock to appease you after trying to imply you were lying about your claim to get Mastin booned over you?
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Post Post #5760 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 6:56 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Don't really have time to go into detail on Titus read right now but a) it's probably my oldest read, far predates my being in her townbloc and b) comes down to similar 'I think this is what she's like as town' stuff by which you probably wouldn't be impressed

Doesn't feel like the most productive use of my time right now especially as i'm supposed to be working atm
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Post Post #5761 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 7:00 am

Post by Titus »

@Singer, Yes. I do that frequently. If it bothers you, I can call you honey. I was raised in the south, so I can drop an occasional Sweety or honey. Anyway, my wall of Singer is almost done.

I also NEVER implied CDB was lying. I started from CDB and Mastina both telling the truth. That's how I reached booning CDB was useless because he's likely to be blocked.
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Post Post #5762 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 7:11 am

Post by Cheetory6 »

@singer, my earlygame reads haven't been great and Titus has been continually behaving in a manner that was getting her scumread and would likely lead to her being lynched.
I'm trusting a few people's read on her enough to say that I don't want to lynch Titus today and especially not so with the amount of random momentum that surged up for her lynch today.
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Post Post #5763 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 7:21 am

Post by Titus »

Spoiler: Image of Feeling – Safe For Work
Image
I’m almost at the end. I’m just trying not to be total psycho bitch.

Spoiler: Singer is Scum Long Case
Let’s take a nice detailed look at Singer here.
Minor Day 1
Bane Wagon – Zar and Empire were largely non-entities in who they voted for. However, a Zar wagon could never get enough votes to be baned and Zar tapped out to go sub into a scum slot. There’s already conftown on the bane Zar wagon (Bulba and GiF). GiF died early on. Singer has then tried to paint this as a reason why I killed GiF, when killing GiF most benefitted her if she is scum.

Boon Wagon - Empire makes no real effort to boon anyone.

[Note:Boon wagon composition suggests that Oversoul is town, or has targeted persuading those perceived as conftown. Remind me to explain this later.]
Major Day 1 –
Empire votes TTH based on my pressure suggestion because TTH is usually a great player when he plays the game.

Singer then votes Shadoweh, who are we debating discussing voting, Shadoweh. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. VC 18 and 19 of Major day 1, show Aronis leading a wagon against Singer that he’s completely forgotten about . Espy was also wagoned there.
The composition of both wagons was incredibly town. (5) singersigner: Aronis, Gammagooey, Bulbazak, mastin2, Titus [L-5], AND (6) Espeonage: mastin2, ChannelDelibird, vezorpiraka, Titus, Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer [L-4].
The Singer wagon is townier but for the Aronis mention. Espy’s undefined are Vezok and Cheetory (Mastin doc, CDB, tracker, GiF is conftown and I know I’m town.)

Then AD versus Singer….

(6) ActionDan: DeasVail, singersigner, Formerfish, T S O, Espeonage, Aronis (Cheetory6, Titus, Untrod Tripod) [L-4]
(6) singersigner: Gammagooey, Bulbazak, mastin2, Titus, Shadoweh, Untrod Tripod (Titus) [L-4]

We have FF, DV, Singer, Aronis all on the same wagon. Versus, Bulba Mastina, and UT. Which wagon is more likely on scum?

Then a TSO lynch.

(10) T S O: Titus, Untrod Tripod, Gammagooey, singersigner, mastin2, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ActionDan, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird [Lynch!]

From looking at Day 1, Singer’s willing to jump onto almost any wagon for no reason. Her mantra during day 1 was Titus is scum, but I don’t want to lynch her.

She also puts forth the Shadoweh rationale that some people have been using. I’m not a fan of the Shadoweh wagon for this. “3. Let me be clear...I will 100% support a lynch on you when I'm done reading up on the game. I don't need to "see if there's support" for it. If there's none, there's none, but I'm not hiding behind a thinly-veiled wall of "well what do you think we should do..." which can also be interpreted as buddying.” (1841)
#1905, singer says “you can infer by my stronger scumreads that I’m not interested in lynching Titus”. This reads as scum saving someone on the backburner until they really desperately need a mislynch. Combine this with 1841 where she says “Titus is not in my scumreads” because I was the only one engaging her. I went from town from a scumread in a matter of four hours, with no explanation or anything. Documenting the date of this post as April 10th.

#1906, Singer laughs at Aronis not explaining his scumread on her for her reads being fake. Yet, now that Aronis is doing what she wants, she has ZERO problem with this.
#1907 is where Singer starts her tunnel on me, trying to tear down FFery’s townread on me. She also has TTH as scum despite his ability to prove himself as very likely town. She keeps Shadoweh here as well as a reserve wagon. All the wagons that have been taking off but for TSO have been endorsed by Singer in #1907. TSO happened to be pushing me as scum at the time. That’s one hell of a conincidence. While these are supposedly Regfan’s reads, it matters little to me because of their sheer similarity with what has happened in the gamestate.
#1947, Tries to push UT down a Titus scum path, despite not wanting to lynch me. Her whole ISO for the rest of minor day 1 is full of pushing the conversation to center on me, despite her earlier claims of not wanting to lynch me.
#2969 Singer’s engaging in wagon analysis with the Espy wagon, suggesting what this looks like and will turn to Regfan but has a problem with others use VCA to determine who is scum later in the game.
#3069, Singer attacks TSO when he calls her out for her jump on him as being terrible.
#3154, Singer defends the TSO wagon from Shadoweh saying it sucked using appeal to fear.
#3176, Now, she’s saying let Shadoweh run with a vanity wagon after pushing her as obvious scum. This post is about an hour after 3154. How can you be wanting people to push vanity wagons while saying TSO has to go through or we might not get two lynches?
---- Lynch Two ----
Singer opens with a Shadoweh vote, rather than looking at the TSO wagon for who was scum. This is a recurring theme with her. Don’t look at the wagons. She’s scum pushing the wagons and there’s likely one other there, at least.

#3286, Singer gets upset at me quantifying TSO as a low value lynch. Yet, she never provided reasons for TSO being scum herself.

Skip usual Titus bashing until we get to
#3918, She threatens Cheeotry with being sketch because he reversed his stance on me. There are quite a few instances of this she pushes and then forgets about in her ISO. Her universe centers around Titus scum at this point. Titus is scum, whoever pushes Titus is town, and whoever defends Titus is scum. She only abandons this when a majority of the thread starts defending me.

#4169, Here’s singer snidely asking for wagon analysis that she says I’m fond of. Now she’s complaining that I’ve been talking about that the whole game as “coaching town”. Again, another instance of Singer being twofaced. She even says in a followup post that such analysis is lower value until a scum flips.
#4185, Singer throws in a bunch of sarcastic posts like this. Me trying to read her, rather than tunnel her ass into oblivion, means that I have to know she’s town. She’s trying to force me to not look into her actions so she can then say I’m not scumhunting. In reality, there’s no action I can take that would clear me as town in her eyes. Even if CDB tracked me.

==== Boon and Bane ===

Singer pursues a bane on Mastina, while still doubtcasting me the entire time. Even when I volunteered to be baned instead of Mastina, she didn’t care. She was fishing for wagon info considering Mastina made it obvious that I would take a Bane for Mastina. She also says Shadoweh is an acceptable bane choice. Yet, now that Shadoweh is wagoned, Singer’s nowhere to be seen.
She forces her will onto the group, despite me explaining follow the cop and WHY CDB is very unlikely to get a result off that is accurate. Who cares if you can match a sign if you’re likely to be blocked? If we had Booned the bulletproof doctor, that would ensure that Mastina lived another day while we hunted the likely scum. She throws around me being threatened to support her point and disregarding that town aligned setup spec and gamestate analys is precisely what I do because I have difficulties reading people on a more emotional level. She does not want Mastina alive in this game.

Singer then distracts from the baning and boon process with “scumTitus porn”. She has no interest in baning me despite me narrowly escaping lynch last time. Presenting this just serves to support getting a useless bane.

Then she goes hypertechnical about Viktor, basically ignoring the fact I’m asking her which player is Viktor and twists that like me pretending not to know Viktor is in the game.


=== Second Lynch Day (Today) ===
Singer defends a UT wagon with no reason beyond let’s lynch other lurkers. She attempts to dress up the UT defense as something stronger than that, but most people see it’s a transparent attempt to save UT. Then, AFTER UT claims Alquin, she claims she suspected UT was Alquin.
Why? Was she Alquin hunting? Why not say UT is town because reasons? It was perfectly acceptable when I did it with GiF although I did take a little bit of heat. She’s been playing for three years longer than I have, yet she hasn’t figured out how to say a wagon sucks because of “reasons”. I doubt it. I know this is a little BoP but still totally relevant. Players good enough for this game know and have seen “reasons”.
Singer votes Formerfish for the lynch vote, not me (because she needs to doubtcast me) and ignores Shadoweh being on that wagon. She’s been pushing Shadoweh as scum for the entire game, but now that Shadoweh is voting Formerfish it’s not a problem at all.
Singer completely sits out the Bulbazak Aronis wagons until the very end. Singer wanted reasons for Aronis’s scumread on her, but she’s not willing to push to get them when Aronis is actually wagoned against townBulbazak. She stated that she wanted a claim from Bulbazak, yet she hammered before that. She hammered before the clock ended on the time for Bulbazak to claim. Why? Because Bulbazak was a threat. She is on this wagon again, despite expressing no opinion on it. She also did that on TSO.

Her reads come and go according to her Titus is scum narrative. There’s no scumhunting in her ISO. No attempts to listen. Nothing.
#2267 is exemplary of how I feel about Singer’s posting. She’s trying to have everything both ways.

In post 2267, Titus wrote:@Singer, That post makes no sense.

You complain no one is working together, yet you are complaining about me working with conftown.
You complain no one is compromising, while ignoring the fact I have been voting with my townreads.
You complain people are melting into the night, yet you don't explain what this means or who is doing it.
You complain no one is being stubborn while at the same time complaining no one is working together.
You complain about working with conftown because she cannot vote, as if that's a good reason not to.
You complain about no one pushing their targets while nitpicking me (who you won't lynch today) and not posting about Shadoweh.

You can flail because you don't feel you have a voice. That's exactly what this feels like. Oh and for good measure, I only have one vote and FFery does not want you lynched and Espy is the larger wagon.


Spoiler: TLDR Version
Singer’s votes have been pushing a narrative more than scumhunting. Her actions say one thing is ok for her but not for others. Her Aronis read is typical of this. She wanted Aronis to explain his scumread on her (he never really did beyond “fake”) yet now she is fine with Aronis not explaining his scumread on me. Her Shadoweh read was scum until people actually started pushing Shadoweh as scum. Her actions do one thing, fit a narrative. She’s pushing that I’m scum while ignoring all evidence to the contrary. A majority of the game has said they will not lynch me, yet she refuses to compromise or do anything beyond be disruptive towards the attempts to get people to work together, by consistently just shouting I am scum.


I get if people do not want to discuss this today, but I want to discuss this tomorrow even if I'm not here to. So I want this out of my system so it stops nagging me to actually put this up. I get it may not happen today, but Singer's totally scum. If we want to discuss this but are hellbent on not lynching Singer, let's do it in Spoiler tags so if people want to skip this, they can.
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Post Post #5764 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 7:26 am

Post by Titus »

In post 5762, Cheetory6 wrote:@singer, my earlygame reads haven't been great and Titus has been continually behaving in a manner that was getting her scumread and would likely lead to her being lynched.
I'm trusting a few people's read on her enough to say that I don't want to lynch Titus today and especially not so with the amount of random momentum that surged up for her lynch today.


Post team mafia, I'd like your feedback regarding what this is.
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You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

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Post Post #5765 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 7:41 am

Post by singersigner »

See, that wasn't so hard now, was it?
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Post Post #5766 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 7:44 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

In post 5753, Titus wrote:To be fair, Quilford and BB were hella scummy there.

Quilford was the proest of town in that game

don't talk smack about my team
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Post Post #5767 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 7:48 am

Post by Titus »

In post 5766, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 5753, Titus wrote:To be fair, Quilford and BB were hella scummy there.

Quilford was the proest of town in that game

don't talk smack about my team


*shrug* I was wrong there. I'll look back why later, but that's what I saw at the time.

UT, Can we please lynch Aronis or Singer? Not really feeling a Shadoweh lynch.

@Singer, Suppose I'm off the table for today, who would you lynch and why?
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Post Post #5768 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 7:56 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

let me consult my team about this singer/aronis dichotomy
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Post Post #5769 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 8:00 am

Post by singersigner »

Formerfish because his play so far has been super lackluster and full of complaining/excuses instead of actually putting forward any sense of effort. He hasn't really engaged with more than like three people so far, and attacks anyone scumreading him for being uselsss as opposed to actually changing his attitude. Feels like he's trying to coast as much as possible until attention is directed his way again, in which case I fully expect him to bombard the thread again. I don't see any sense of urgency with trying to catch up or contribute in a way I would expect from a replacement, but instead throwing out AtE like "who else would replace into a game this big" which isn't alignment relevant at all, so not an appropriate form of defense. He should replace out or do something and since he doesn't have the decency to do either, I'm scumreading him I'm instead.
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Post Post #5770 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 8:02 am

Post by Titus »

Singer, did you actually read yesterday? FF had started to engage people, put forth a read that wasn't common consensus or pushed. You've been moving the goal posts. People happened not to be on when FF was. This seems to be your stick. Do you actually have a read on someone that isn't lurking that isn't me?
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Post Post #5771 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 8:15 am

Post by Titus »

I'm particularly interested in why it's ok now for Aronis not to explain anything and what happened to your Shadoweh scumread now that people are pushing her.
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Post Post #5772 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 9:52 am

Post by singersigner »

Are you upset because your whole scum team is lurking and now you have to carry their weight? Because that's really what I'm getting from your frustration. FF...probably DV at that point which means 4nxi3ty would have to be bussing you...are you bussing Aronis? Why are you so determined that one of the lurkers can't be scum? I've actually molded my reads pretty thoroughly over the course of this game, the most unwavering one being you (sorry not sorry). Like, you're all up in my grill trying to hard defend yourself when if you really weren't worried, maybe you'd allow people to look at the facts and let them speak for themselves. But...you're not doing that.

And Shadoweh was my team's scumread. I will follow them if the votes go deep enough for it, but something at the end of D1 made me feel like she was town. We're not exactly happy with her vote at the end of the first cycle, but it's not damning. Aronisnis your read so I'm determined to do the opposite for the rest of the game unless I think you're bussing. :]
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Post Post #5773 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 10:02 am

Post by Titus »

Singer, I'm sure if the mod came in and said I was town, you'd STILL scumread me. You haven't actually answered my question. Putting a sarcastic comment does not answer my question.

Are you scumreading Aronis? Why is his naked vote ok on me but you still expect him to explain votes on you?
Shadoweh being your team's scumread and you'd hop back.

Why are you pushing a wagon a majority of the players suggest is town if you're simultaneously believing that all the scumteam are lurkers besides me? You're pushing a wagon that has zero chance of success while stating that you'll pop on wagons, if they have enough support. You're basically camping out on a wagon that has zero chance of going through and posturing.
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You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

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Post Post #5774 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2015 10:17 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 4473, Untrod Tripod wrote:because scummastin is TOTALLY that devious
Scumastin avoids claiming like the fucking plague. It locks you in, removing flexibility.

In post 4478, TellTaleHeart wrote:
Town Wagons:

TellTaleHeart: Titus,
singersigner
, Oversoul,
Aronis
, Formerfish,
vezokpiraka
,
Cheetory6
, ChannelDelibrd
TSO: Titus,
Untrod Tripod
, Gammagooey,
singersigner
, mastin2,
vezokpiraka
,
Cheetory6
, ActionDan, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird
mastin Bane wagon:

mastin2:
vezokpiraka
, TellTaleHeart,
singersigner
,
Untrod Tripod, Aronis
, Oversoul,
Cheetory
, Gammagooey

All Three:
singersigner, Cheetory
,
vezokpiraka

Two out of Three: Gamma,
UT, Aronis
, Titus, Oversoul, CDB
One out of Three: TTH, Formerfish, mastin, ActionDan, GIF
None: Bulbazak.
Deasvail
.
Espeonage
. Shadoweh

Unflipped Wagons:

Espeonage
: ChannelDelibird,
vezorpiraka
,
Cheetory6
,
Untrod Tripod
, ActionDan, Aronis, GuyInFreezer, Shadoweh
singersigner
:
Aronis
, Gammagooey, Bulbazak, mastin2, Titus
ActionDan:
DeasVail, singersigner
, T S O,
Espeonage
,
Aronis
, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird, Titus
ChannelDelibird: Gammagooey, Titus, Formerfish, Bulbazak, TellTaleHeart,
Untrod Tripod
,
vezokpiraka
, ActionDan,
Espeonage
Helpful hint, right there.

In post 4479, TellTaleHeart wrote:My preliminary conclusions are that Bulba and DV are scum and there's 2 scum in [Gamma, Titus,
Cheetory
,
vezok
, Formerfish].
No duh Bulb was town (iso me for "Bulb" to see), and yes DV is scum. You
could
very well be right about two scum in those names, but it sure as fuck isn't Titus. (And, key word, "could".)

In post 4483, TellTaleHeart wrote:Titus:
Espeonage
,
Cheetory6
, GuyInFreezer, vezokpiraka, Aronis,
singersigner

Bulbazak:
DeasVail
, Gammagooey, Shadoweh,
Cheetory6
, Titus, vezokpiraka, GuyInFreezer, Aronis, Oversoul, T S O
Shadow is town, Titus is town, and we have the flipped town in TSO and GIF obv, with Oversoul also as town. But Gamma? Vezok? And most definitely Aronis? Easily flipping scum, especially given that,
-Vezok has been on basically every single major wagon,
-And Aronis is not far behind.

Yes I'm quite aware that I'm calling three people scum (DV, singer, Cheet) and four people scummy (Esp, UT, Aronis, Vezok).
Yes, I'm quite aware that's three too many, and doesn't even go into Gamma.
(I do think more than I used to, though, that Formerfish is town.)

But it's where I'm at.
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