Mini 1670 - WTF MAFIA

[ika]

oddmusic
Jeanne11
elusive
Wanderer-nl
shos
BRantz
Derangement
Drixx:
McMenno
Bellaphant:
Ricastle:

oddmusic

Bins

[Drixx]

So who is the new gunbearer?

Do you mean gunslinger?

Also ... I know this is WTF mafia, but why on earth would you vote for someone you posited was a day-vig? o.O

[McMenno]

@Bellaphant A dolphin, that "flips" at the end of the day.

Dunno where my vote's at, but this seems like the most logical place:

VOTE: Derangement

[Ricastle]

Dunno where my vote's at, but this seems like the most logical place:

VOTE: Derangement

And why is that?

[Bellaphant]

@drixx, I got confused. Hence the immediate unvote.
@ mcmenno, interesting... Why that vote?

Also, jjeanne trying to.find the gun bearer after scum got shot Is wierd.

[shos]

Catching up progressively.

Btw I'm hated

I hope he is scum - but either way, this needs to be done with before any lylo happens, guys. :/

McMenno's role is probably the one third party whose alignment was NOT randomized. it fits perfectly. I believe that claim and I think it should not be touched; if false, we can just get his partners elsewhere. if True, damage to town is waaaaaay too big to consider lynching.
Also, if we keep him alive until the part where we all massclaim - then we can confirm that he is the sure-alignment role, and as such, probably not scum.

I don't like Derangement's posts. they make me feel odd. but I think it's more of a playstyle, and it's a town play, says my gut.

i don't really fear the fact that i'm hated. nor do i mind. i don't see why you should.

don't you think we should not be having you around in lylo?
are you still hated in lylo, btw? I assumed yes.

So ... anyone want a stripper pole tonight?

Sure, I'd love one.

This post is the first of yours in the game, and this is what you comment on? there's plenty to talk about already. Why stay out?

Yeah, if you are offering.

Wondering about lynching McMenno just to get his weird role out of the way.

^^^scumpost. town souldn't.
VOTE: Bellephant

If the claim is true then we just ignore him.

townpost

The best play is to ignore him until we get other scum first. We know there are 3 scum plus one third party scum. If he's being honest, then lynching him is super dangerous. If he's lying to present just this conundrum to us, we can lynch him later. If he's telling the truth about being able to vote after death, and he's scum, then it still makes sense to kill him later. In every case the best play is to just set him aside until we get 2 or 3 of the scum dead, and re-evaluate from there. He can use that time to try and convince us he's town by his play.

elaborated townpost. this is good, but Ricastle was first..but this is elaborated and has good arguments.

I like Drixx

[shos]

If he's town, scum aren't going to night kill him and leave him as a stump who can vote. If he's scum, obviously scum aren't going to night kill him. Him making that claim ensured that his win condition is anti-town. He will never die in such a way that results in him having a pro-town vote afterwards (if his claim is true), and there's no way in hell he can be trusted in LYLO. He wins by surviving so if it goes to LYLO, scum will just vote and he'll follow and he doesn't give a shit which team wins so long as he wins.

He's a policy lynch as a survivor, and he knows it. The only real question is whether or not he actually has some kind of post death treestump voting ability. To me, that would fall into bastard territory but I'm not sure about the site guidelines and whether it would just be "non normal" or if it would be considered a bastard role. I'm tempted to just call bullshit on it and encourage that we kill the survivor as a matter of policy. If his claim is honest, he's even more of a threat than survivor's normally are.

If he's town, scum aren't going to night kill him and leave him as a stump who can vote. If he's scum, obviously scum aren't going to night kill him. Him making that claim ensured that his win condition is anti-town. He will never die in such a way that results in him having a pro-town vote afterwards (if his claim is true), and there's no way in hell he can be trusted in LYLO. He wins by surviving so if it goes to LYLO, scum will just vote and he'll follow and he doesn't give a shit which team wins so long as he wins.

He's a policy lynch as a survivor, and he knows it. The only real question is whether or not he actually has some kind of post death treestump voting ability. To me, that would fall into bastard territory but I'm not sure about the site guidelines and whether it would just be "non normal" or if it would be considered a bastard role. I'm tempted to just call bullshit on it and encourage that we kill the survivor as a matter of policy. If his claim is honest, he's even more of a threat than survivor's normally are.

The thing is, if his claim is legit, then while he's alive, he's an unknown.
He might help or hinder town, depending on which faction's the closest to winning.

But if he dies, then he's

guaranteed

to be a problem for the faction dropping the hammer.

I am in no rush to risk the latter scenario, if I can help it.

Don't you get it? Let's say he's being completely honest. His win condition will change after he's dead, but he still won't know who is scum or town, so he could just as likely help either side. Any way we slice it he is trouble, but he's much

more

trouble if left alive, especially at end game. He has no incentive whatsoever to play for a town win and therefore is a policy lynch. The only reason we haven't already all agreed to lynch him today and moved on to talking about other things is because of his whole "My win condition changes from survivor to whichever team is responsible for killing me, and I get to vote when I'm dead so you better not lynch me" bullshit. Like ... that's exactly the kind of fake claim to expect from a Neutral Survivor who is aware of how anti-neutral the site meta is here. It is considerably more likely than not that the whole alignment changing (bastard for sure) voting after dead (at the very best non-normal, if not bastard) claim is just pure bullshit.

Is this logically difficult... at all?

Basically, he is now a utility for town because survivor; but if we lynch him, then he's a utility for town because scum. he will never be hammered by scum - because if he survives it's still good for them. that makes the game super unbalanced towards scum; and with another hated guy here - I'm starting to think that this claim is faulty. but again, it's just too risky to lynch, is it not???

[shos]

Okay, so.

By clever application of stalking, we know my post #27 was at

19:02:31

;
McMenno's last post on site was at

21:12:25

.

He is neither scum-hunting nor answering our questions.
So I'm inclined to suggest we start piling votes on him, if this doesn't change.

In the off chance that McMenno's claim isn't fake, we find a third-party who's willing to drop the hammer, assuming McMenno's victory condition only changes if there's an actual

faction

involved.
If someone helps us with this, and McMenno turns out to really have been telling the truth, then that person's contribution will have helped

immensely

, making them pretty much unlynchable.

I'd offer to do so myself, but unfortunately I am town.
Any thoughts, comments, suggestions on how to improve on this idea, or flaws I might have missed are very welcome.

you should really use site-time timestamps -_-
anyways, this is good thinking. We should keep him alive for the while. if someone gets to L-1 and claims third party, we can allow him to hammer mcmenno.

[shos]

Was there some part of #77 that was confusing, or are you trying to get me to scum read you for some reason flubber? I don't see me at all defending that bullshit claim there. I don't think there's any upside to letting him live. The worst case scenario is that his claim is actually true, and I am almost completely certain that he was spewing bullshit all over the place. Someone would have to come into the game and outright claim to be scum to get me to want to lynch someone else today, at this point.

Since there's no conceivable universe where scum come into the thread and say they are scum (would result in a mod kill I believe since it's playing against win condition), you should take that as confirmation that I plan to hammer the shit out of McMenno. I'm looking forward to it. In fact, I'm going to just go ahead and give

intent to hammer

right now. Whomever puts him at L-1 ... know that I'm gonna hammer the second I notice.

you should take that as confirmation that I plan to hammer the shit out of McMenno. I'm looking forward to it. In fact, I'm going to just go ahead and give

intent to hammer

right now. Whomever puts him at L-1 ... know that I'm gonna hammer the second I notice.

Whoa. Thank you!

Didn't expect we'd find a third-party that was pro-town enough to volunteer this quickly.

Are you third party or town?

[shos]

VOTE: McMenno

Let's ride this train

such quick voting after the intent to hammer

this guy is scum if mcmenno's flip is antitown

I'm not comfortable with anyone hammering McMenno.

^^^^is town

[Ricastle]

I did actually post 4 times before 58.

[Bins]

I'm not hater in LYLO, I asked Ika.

[Bins]

hehe hater

[shos]

lol I was about to ask what happens if he self-hammers
but then modkill autoloss lolz

[elusive]

I'm not scum, lurking seems like a scum tell for mcmenno. Good shot by vig, flubbee has been scum in every game we've been in together.

I hate being called scummy by people who can't get genders wrong.

I've played with who's before as an alt, meh.

[Bins]

I'm not scum, lurking seems like a scum tell for mcmenno.

I'd disagree. Even though I probably can't prove it.

Also, he's claimed third party -

a scum role not aligned with anything and is survivor-like.

I doubt he's going to be more useful than his town or scum game.

[shos]

I'm thinking, if mcmenno's role sucks ass regardless, why not lynch the Hated claim? also, not being hated in lylo does not make sense with that other claim because with a survivor, lylo is practically one day before actual lylo.


I think this is a 1v1 between menno and Bins. and I'm inclined to vote bins on policy, and see what happens.

[Wanderer-nl]

I think we're too negative on ourselves. We can win this easily right? All those combined roles in the game, townies able to come back, stuff like that. Why keep a hazard like mcmenno in the game when we should be optimistic to win this before lylo? I know I am, but maybe I'm just being naive.
Also, mcmenno isn't allowed to discuss and hopefully he doesn't even get to vote in this thread so he won't be able to discuss anything at all and has to go on what he's reading, so even if his claim is true (which I'm still not convinced of) he still has no info in the afterlife and can't be that much of a threat. Or are we afraid scum may have more lynch-changing abilities? We can also agree that L-2 is the new L-1 after mcmenno dies, in case he has his vote on the bw as well. I'm just afraid mcmenno is really the 3rd party scum but changed it to survivor to be able to live this game out..
Anyway, let me dive into iso's to see what jumps out for me in case we do decide to lynch someone else.

[Ricastle]

that makes the game super unbalanced towards scum; and with another hated guy here - I'm starting to think that this claim is faulty. but again, it's just too risky to lynch, is it not???

Are you also claiming hated here?! If not, who are you referring to?

Wanderer, explain how McMenno is less of a hazard to us when he's dead and is actively out to kill town.

[shos]

I'm referring to the one who claimed hated p1.

and if he is killed by third party, THEN he is less hazardous.

[shos]

Wait, I haven't even posted yet, and we're down one mafia?

btw lol same

who shot him?

[Ricastle]

I'm referring to the one who claimed hated p1.

and if he is killed by third party, THEN he is less hazardous.

That is Bins lol.

That's never going to happen though. No non-town player would dare hammer Menno at this point and he sure as hell won't be NKed. The only realistic scenario will lead to disaster for the town.

[Bellaphant]

...so whoever does hammer is conf. Town or 3p? Interesting. Also, odd and wanderers posting has impressed me so far and I'd like to see more from them.

Mcmenno does need to scum hunt, though - if he coasts through the game he isn't helping town

I'm.wondering if the 'flip' thing mcmenno said he saw in Flub's death suggests more people might Alignment chang?

Also, seeing Flub's wierd vovoting role makes me feel a bit better abiut bins' claim.

[shos]

in other words, we need to get the other scums before we deal with menno. let's lynch the hated, if anything, not him.

[elusive]

Why the hated?