Mini 1670 - WTF MAFIA

[Bins]

jfc bigger picture man

I'm waiting, Drixx. We gonna dance.

[Bellaphant]

I'm not scum, lurking seems like a scum tell for mcmenno.

I'd disagree. Even though I probably can't prove it.

Also, he's claimed third party -

a scum role not aligned with anything and is survivor-like.

I doubt he's going to be more useful than his town or scum game.

A PL on town is always dumb.

Can we stop distracting this game?

Okay, I was definitely wrong about Bins. She's my strongest town-read. However, she is asking people to address the bigger picture but not making many moves herself (not that a bunch of people aren't guilty of this).

VOTE: Derangement

Might as well return here unless anyone can posit a better lead. Flubber might have been trying to divide my scumread on Deranged onto elusive.

I think you are correct here. I've re-read the game and Derangement is (was) posting a lot without adding much new content. I think Flub could've been trying to re-direct you from scum onto town.

@Ric: He is right now already actively out to kill town. He has to survive, remember? If a third party kills mcmenno, and then that 3rd party gets lynched or killed later, mcmenno will have won the game.
I don't want to have mcmenno against us during lylo, but I really think we can win this before we actually hit lylo so why worry about that? Before that, he won't be a problem. We can now all agree L-2 will equal L-1 in case mcmenno is on the bw and that's another problem out of the way. We just need 2 hammerers instead of 1 to make sure the lynch is going through. Wouldn't that make scumhunting through vca even easier?

I'm running under the assumption there is more than 1 3rd party, only one of which wins with scum. This is supported by the Flubber kill - I think one 3p MUST win with town. We've only got two scum left now, and assuming someone has an aggressive night action I think town is in a good place.

I might as well set up some codes, now that it has calmed down a bit. I will use these codes when I'm killed by scum. If I'm lynched, then I'll just fuck around, I guess.

If I vote a player, I (obviously) scumread them.

If I vote a player, but immediately unvote them after that, I townread them.

If I vote someone twice in a post, then I have information from town players in the dead PT that they are scum.

If I vote someone, then vote no lynch, then I have information from town players in the dead PT that they are town.

I have a really hard time believing that someone will have access to the dead thread and be able to use coded communication in this way. This just seems less and less plausible as time goes on.


In other news, I need a V/LA until Sunday evening. I'll be offline sitewide. See ya'll then.

If you have a hard time believing these things, maybe you shouldn't have signed up for a game called "WTF Mafia".

The only good thing about McMenno's role is that he seems to be a spanner in the works for scum, too.

Anyway, onto the scum-hunting. VOTE: Derangement for fixating on the McMenno issue, posts not ringing true and not actively scum-hunting.

[Wanderer-nl]

Bella: Can't really make my mind up on her, comes accross as uncertain or insecure. I liked 174 and 222, but there's a lot of mcmenno stuff that is currently not allignent indicative for me. Pedit: 251 is causing me to doubt my own read on Derangement, but I'm not going to change anything right now because I really need a break. Also, with 251 Bella put herself a little more on the townside of null for me.

Bins: Claimed hated in her first post, ok I can get that, then some discussion/questions about that start to come and then Bins lets us all know she's not hated in lylo, instead of waiting to tell us that when it's lylo and scum have already jumped on her to have her gone, she tells us now and we no longer need to PL. Bins saying she doesn't want to deal with mcmenno yet because it distracts from scumhunting is a good thing to say, and looks like Bins is trying to question other people, though it's not much. 181 bothered me a little bit. We already know there is a scumteam of 3 players. I assumed it was mafia already, but I realize now that we could have also been playing against werewolves or I don't know what fantasy our mod has. Still, the post looks a little weird to me, redundant actually. I want to have a townfeel on Bins, but there are these little things I can't ignore so I'll put her down as a nullread for now.

BRantz: Not much to go on for BRantz. On first glance his posts look quite town to me, but now I'm thinking about it, I'm not so sure anymore. I'd like to give him townpoints for the quedtions he asked, but there is a lot more for BRantz (and others) to comment on, so I'm not completely sure here. Very slight townfeel though because I think content is better than quantity, but still in the dangerzone of being moved to null because the content is so meager.

Derangement: A LOT on mcmenno. First they want to have him lynched, but in 102 Derangement seems to have a change of heart and would rather wait, I don't see an unvote though. In 106 it becomes clear Derangement wants to wait to see if a 3rd party is willing to hammer mcmenno. In 115 they write they need to do more scumhunting, but their posts after that one are all back to mcmenno. After the mod explained the lylo/mylo-thing Derangement was focussed on a lot, their posts become a lot shorter and in 161 Derangement is back to wanting to get rid of mcmenno. Then 183 what they say about the vig looks good.
I don't see scum stepping in the spotlight like Derangement did, and I think they tried to put down their thoughts as transparent as possible so I'm carefully townreading Derangement for now.

Drixx: I think his changing his mind between 73 and 77 looks town. Scum would probably make up their mind and stick with it. I really liked Drixx' 93 and just for that I could townread him. In 246 Drixx makes a good point imo. Drixx does address a couple of players, but he's mostly posting about mcmenno. 93 is enough to put him as a townread right now though.

Elusive: Another short iso but this one is filled with non-game related fluff. 117 while I can follow the logic in this, she doesn't revisit when Bins claims she has a 4-part role that also contains pseudo-jester. Other than that, nothing really stands out. Slight scumread, very close to null.

Jeanne: Said hello and made an RVS-vote, then confused this game with another. Can this just get replaced please?

Mcmenno: His claim looks less and less truthful with every post he makes. We already know he is 3rd party and isn't playing to our wincon. I also don't really get why anyone would claim such a role if they are able to win after death anyway. To me it looks like a way to position oneself as unlynchable/unkillable while not having to do anything to stay alive. How is this going to help us in the long run?

Oddmusic: Oh, forgot he was in the game, sorry. He made 2 posts. And a complete 180 on Ric. After which Ric unvoted immediately. Curious, I wonder what Oddmusic thinks about Ric's quick unvote. 2 posts that aren't bad imo, but need more content from Oddmusic to make a decent read, so null for now.

Ricastle: 110 I didn't like his vote there but what he said was good. After that was the exchange with Flubber and that made Ric look more town after Flubber's flip for me. Then came the Bella-vote and unvote and after that returns to Derangement in 240. I can see his logic, but I don't really agree with it. 171 though, mcmenno claimed and there are only a couple of investigator roles that could confirm/counter his claim, so it really depends on what we have in the game if that is possible. I'm not against it, but I worry we might not get a solid result on him while we could have on someone who didn't claim at all yet. Slight townread, but careful.
(Ric, I'll reply to you in a separate post)

Shos: It took some time for him to get in, but in 205 he posted some thoughts and most felt like it came from town. I'm a little confused why Shos would think mcmenno has partners though. Shos seems to believe mcmenno's claim, so shouldn't he then also assume mcmenno doesn't have partners? 209

IF mcmenno's flip is anti-town

? It's going to be anti-town, he's 3rd party. I also don't get why he would suggest a 1v1 in 216, and then 238 I don't get either because if it's lylo, it's lylo? Nullread mostly because I don't really know what to think.

So a lot is about mcmenno, which isn't really weird with such a claim. I also don't think much of it is really allignment indicative because every faction (except maybe a 3rd party) will be afraid of killing mcmenno. So I can see both town- and scummotivation from wanting mcmenno gone day 1 and wanting to keep him around because of the downside during lylo. But eventually he has to die, and I think this will always be a topic during this thread as long as mcmenno lives. I'm still behind lynching him today, partly because reasons I already posted and partly because I just don't have a strong enough scumread on anyone else yet.

More Pedit: Need to look into Derangement again, will do that somewhere tomorrow because I have to go now.
@Ric, I hope I answered your questions enough for now. I still intend to respond to you in a separate post but this post took me longer to make then I thought and I have to go now.

[elusive]

So much overlap in players across games that I keep losing track of this one and just have been a bit busy. Sorry!

I just re-read the game. Flubber trying to get Ricastle to vote me and seeing if there was space to push me is interesting and he's done that before. It makes me lean Ricastle as town. Of those interactions I think Derangement is most closely trying to mirror Flubber. I also didn't like oddmusic's post about mafia down, the tone seemed a bit off (and I feel like I see alignment between him and Derangment). I would guess that one or both of Derangement and oddmusic are scum.

About Bins role, I've heard of and seen hated before so I don't have many questions since the role itself doesn't say anything about alignment. Her posts so far seem pro-town and trying to move the game out of nauseating discussions about minutiae that can't be resolved until post game when ika reveals the setup.

Shos also strikes me as off. He is messing up player genders and continues to do so even after being clarified. That strikes me as purposeful. There is also a distance there.

Some players need to interact more.

VOTE: Derangement

oddmusic, hi there. lets play.

[Bins]

Wait, I'm your biggest townread but also a nullread? also, I don't think 181 was the post you're looking for. but someone had said there was only one scum left so

[Bins]

that's @wanderer

[Bellaphant]

Really like 253, but I'm not really seeing what people are reacting so badly to about OM. I think I need more content there.

Shos, Derangement, Jeanne and Brantz are my current scum-spects (with McM being a whole different ball game), but I could be swayed on OM if I'm missing anything. Elu, wanderer, thoughts?

Wanderer's confusion over bins looks a bit iffy too, as does her town-read of Derangement, but some of her other reads seem okay.

OM, what are your thoughts on ric's votes?

[shos]

@wanderer:

'm a little confused why Shos would think mcmenno has partners though. Shos seems to believe mcmenno's claim, so shouldn't he then also assume mcmenno doesn't have partners? 209 IF mcmenno's flip is anti-town? It's going to be anti-town, he's 3rd party. I also don't get why he would suggest a 1v1 in 216, and then 238 I don't get either because if it's lylo, it's lylo? Nullread mostly because I don't really know what to think.

I don't think he has partners, lol, and I don't believe I ever said anything like that. My current working theory is that McMenno is third party scum(lone scum) - as in, the role whose alignment was predetermined and not randomrolled.

The reason I suggest the 1v1 is because if we have a survivor then effectively, lylo is not when officially lylo is, and rather, it's before that - because if, say, there are 7 alive, 3 scum, 1 survivor, then scum have 4 votes with the survivor. this means that we are effectively in lylo BEFORE official lylo, which means that when we're in lylo, the HATED CLAIM is still active, meaning that even at 9 players alive, 3 scum, 1 survivor, 1 hated, it's game over already - because he needs only 4 votes to be lynched.

in short: with 3+1 scum, +1 survivor claim, +1 hated claim, THIS IS ALREADY LYLO.
the fact we have a dead scum helps us, yes, but the idea is still that I do not believe there's both Hated and survivorthingummywut thing.

[shos]

Shos also strikes me as off. He is messing up player genders and continues to do so even after being clarified. That strikes me as purposeful. There is also a distance there.

I'm sorry, are you calling me scum because I call people 'he' instead of 'she'?

[Bins]

oh god not this again.

[shos]

he asked, I answered. I accept what you said about lynching you later though, because we have dead scum and all. my vote on Belle is serious.

[Bins]

i don't want to have a fight about gender... those never end well.

i think i'll just call shos "she" and we'll call it even.

[shos]

lolz
Bins translates to trashcans...and trashcans in hebrew are males.

[McMenno]

ement is the most unsure about what to do with me. I think he is scum, not sure what to do with me yet, because if I die by the hands of town, I am a guaranteed vote for scum, but if I'm left alive, he's not sure what I'd do.

[elusive]

Shos also strikes me as off. He is messing up player genders and continues to do so even after being clarified. That strikes me as purposeful. There is also a distance there.

I'm sorry, are you calling me scum because I call people 'he' instead of 'she'?

I'm calling you scummy because you are acting as if you are reading the game closely and are offering thoughts but you can't get player genders right and that kind of dissonance stands out.

Move off mcmenno, put him on the backburner and work on finding scum.

Derangement and odd music is where it's at. Shos a close third as scummy dude.

[shos]

Shos also strikes me as off. He is messing up player genders and continues to do so even after being clarified. That strikes me as purposeful. There is also a distance there.

I'm sorry, are you calling me scum because I call people 'he' instead of 'she'?

I'm calling you scummy because you are acting as if you are reading the game closely and are offering thoughts but you can't get player genders right and that kind of dissonance stands out.

Move off mcmenno, put him on the backburner and work on finding scum.

Derangement and odd music is where it's at. Shos a close third as scummy dude.

This game has 13 players, of which I played with 1. that's 12 new people to remember genders for. you'll have to excuse me about this, but last time I checked, this wasn't even mentioned prior to you saying it, so you are practically the only one noticing it. when I read the game I read the posts, rather then what's written under the names of people.

I *have* moved off mcmenno years ago, in fact I've never been on him, in acse you didn't see(accusing me of not reading the game?), and I'm voting Bell not because I randomized it.

I have no idea why people are scumreading derangement, I found him pretty ok.

[shos]

for the record - if you ask me who is in this game - I remember in the game on drixx, derangement, mcmenno, bins and elusive, all the rest need to step up for me to remember them.

also bins is a she and so is elusive. dunno about the rest,

[Ricastle]

Shos, who are you scumreading?

[Bellaphant]

Shos, how come in between one post and another you explain your vote on me is 'coz you are scum-reading me, and then in literally the next post you don't even remember I'm in the game? o.0

(I'm female too, btw).

[shos]

Oh now don't I love the attention from all the gals <3
@Ric - Bellaphant.
@Bell - that was really off the top of my head, lol, and this just proves the point. When playing with loads of new players, expecting people to remember everyone so quick, and extraspecially to remember everyone's gender, that's exaggarating, and scumreading me for it is incredibly far fetched, if not scummy by itself.

[elusive]

LOL, prolly not this kind of attention

That's a NOU right there. 13 is nothing, how would you play in a normal? It may not be possible to remember everything but knowing why you're voting someone and being able to explain it as well as having looked closely enough at them to know details is important. It's also not that hard.

The McMenno was a general statement for town hence it being on its own and in a new paragraph without a person's name attached. Yay.

[Wanderer-nl]

Wait, I'm your biggest townread but also a nullread? also, I don't think 181 was the post you're looking for. but someone had said there was only one scum left so

Where are you my biggest townread again?

@shos: From your 205 you wrote

McMenno's role is probably the one third party whose alignment was NOT randomized. it fits perfectly. I believe that claim and I think it should not be touched; if false, we can just get

his partners

elsewhere. if True, damage to town is waaaaaay too big to consider lynching.
Also, if we keep him alive until the part where we all massclaim - then we can confirm that he is the sure-alignment role, and as such, probably not scum.

Here.
So this is lylo. Hated isn't hated in lylo. This is lylo. This is not lylo. Aaaarrgghhh I'm getting confused by this!!

@Bins 264: who even cares that much? I look at the pics when someone posts and most of the time I forget to look at gender and have to look it up when I address the person it concerns.

IRT 269: should we assume your scumread is a serious one? Since you seem to forget a number of players and well you know, maybe expand your view a little? I don't expect you to memorize genders, I do expect you to at some point know who you're playing with.

@Elusive: NOU? I agree with the middle part of her 270.

[Bins]

@Bins 264: who even cares that much? I look at the pics when someone posts and most of the time I forget to look at gender and have to look it up when I address the person it concerns.

why r u asking me this is elusive post

[Bins]

OH WHAT THE shiaf

i keep getting bellaphant and you mixed up lmao

b/c of avatars

i'm guilty

[Wanderer-nl]

@Bins: yeah you're right about Elusive mix-up, I guess I'm too drunk/stoned right now to make decent posts.

I also just realized from the quote I made of shos that I was looking at it incorrectly and now he is making sense more but yeah silly, I shouldn't do this when I smoked. But my lylo/not lylo confusement still stands!