I wasn't arguing with that point because I don't know. Maybe they actually have a reason and we'll find out. Maybe we don't. I'm just saying in regards to your previous point, I don't believe it removes her agency and I highly dislike the idea that women can't be strong and also suffer too.
The way the scene is currently cut, it can be read as a repudiation of Sansa's prior-stated belief that she can't be hurt in her home.
What she said might not be 100% truthful, but the feeling and the meaning behind it is not lost. That girl still knows in the back of her mind that her tricks and nasty words aren't going to work.
Of course Sansa is still going to be hurting because she's still in the situation she's in. It's a common misconception that bravery means a lack of fear. You can still be strong in the face of pain.
In post 3426, Brandi wrote:It's a common misconception that bravery means a lack of fear.
"Can a man be brave, even when he's afraid?"
One time, back in 'nam, Sudo was set upon by an entire squadron of charlies. He challenged them all to a game of Pictionary, which he won resoundingly. The charlies were forced to not only surrender the skirmish, but also their world-famous chili recipe, which Sudo sold to Texas for a hefty profit. Sudo is a master of diplomacy.
In post 3414, xRECKONERx wrote:Man, you know how they could've completely fixed that rape scene?
Have the Myranda/Sansa bathing scene happen immediately afterwards, instead of before.
That way, we see the horrific thing, we see her go through it... then we see this scene with Myranda, where she tries to torment her, and in the face of what has happened, we see Sansa stand strong and say "nothing can hurt me". BOOM. Get fucked owned.
Instead, we just remove all the badass agency she had in the bathing scene with a rape.
I'm just going to pretend it was edited the wrong way now.
That's pretty good. Although that's not to say something like that won't be coming in the next episode. I hope this isn't going to be another 4 episodes of sansa being a victim until she goes and lights a candle and gets rescued or whatever.
I was actually expecting or hoping they were going to flip the scene entirely. Set it up with Ramsay telling Reek to stay and make us all think oh shit and then Sansa actually talks to Ramsay/manipulates him, convinces him to send reek out, and then takes the dominant position in the scene for the rest. To build upon the "Make this Bolton boy yours" conversation with Littlefinger. Even if they film it as if Ramsay is just entertained by it and plays along, or even if it didn't work and Ramsay did what he was going to do anyways. For me, it didn't make sense for Sansa to be standing there just petrified. She had to have been starting to think Ramsay was a bit fucked up but he hadn't really given her reason to be afraid of him. She really knows nothing about him other than how he treated Theon and what the scorned girlfriend said. She had to have known and expected that she was going to have to have sex with this guy, from back in Moat Caitlin when Littlefinger told her the plan. She decided to continue on, she wasn't forced to continue to winterfell (maybe she would have been if she said no, but that's not what happened). I'm sure she knew exactly what was going to happen when she was talking with Littlefinger in the crypts and said "I expect I'll be a married woman when you return". She knew exactly what that meant. After Littlefinger left I'll buy that she no longer had a choice in anything and I'm in no way trying to say it wasn't rape, only that up until she got in the room and Ramsay told Theon to stay she knew and went along with exactly what was going to be expected of her in this plan of her getting married to Ramsay. It bothered me most that Sansa didn't try to reason with Ramsay at all. That was the big missed opportunity in the whole situation IMO. It made it seem like Sansa was just upset that this was all going to happen in front of theon and that she just instantly realized how fucked up Ramsay really is, because she walked into that room knowing and expecting to have to have sex with Ramsay.
I think he is inferring that you are blaming Sansa for being raped because she did not resist.
I think your intent is more that we have been groomed for 1.5 seasons now to see Sansa as someone with guile, so seeing her end up in the same situation again is really disappointing, especially when there were lots of other narrative choices that would have made it different.
Something to consider is that she was still, ye know, a virgin. First time is always a little awkward, even after you've decided to manipulate everyone.
In post 3428, Rhinox wrote:She had to have known and expected that she was going to have to have sex with this guy, from back in Moat Caitlin when Littlefinger told her the plan.
Because this is passively suggesting that its ok for this to happen because Sansa was expecting it.
In post 3432, Iecerint wrote:I think he is inferring that you are blaming Sansa for being raped because she did not resist.
I think your intent is more that we have been groomed for 1.5 seasons now to see Sansa as someone with guile, so seeing her end up in the same situation again is really disappointing, especially when there were lots of other narrative choices that would have made it different.
This is correct. I'm not blaming Sansa at all. I'm blaming the writers. I'm saying that it didn't make sense for them to write it that way because it seemed out of character for ShowSansa to not have said anything if we're supposed to believe she's had any character development at all up til now. We're led to believe she's supposed to be trying to manipulate Ramsay through her conversations with Littlefinger, but then they don't show her as even trying to do that. Instead, it reminded me of the scene after she married Tyrion, like she hasn't grown at all as a character from that point til now. It took me out of the scene completely.
In post 3428, Rhinox wrote:She had to have known and expected that she was going to have to have sex with this guy, from back in Moat Caitlin when Littlefinger told her the plan.
Because this is passively suggesting that its ok for this to happen because Sansa was expecting it.
"But AP, that isn't my point"
Well then make better posts.
So basically you're just jumping at something to score some rhetorical cred even though you already know that wasn't what I was saying at all? Cool, thanks for commenting.
In post 3433, Iecerint wrote:Something to consider is that she was still, ye know, a virgin. First time is always a little awkward, even after you've decided to manipulate everyone.
In post 3435, Iecerint wrote:He is saying that he expected Sansa to go in with a plan, because the writers have been presenting her as someone who is learning to plan and scheme.
But she didn't, because she needs Theon to rescue her or whatever.
In-universe, she underestimated how awkward her first time would be and didn't account for Theon watching.
Yeah this. I just think it is a failure of the writers to show sansa controlling (or attempting to control) a situation we all thought was going to go, well, exactly the way it did.
In post 3438, Venmar wrote:I actually thought Sansa was going to slip out a knife out of her sleeve when she was undoing it and then fucking slice Ramsays throat.
That would've been
fantastic
It would've been dumb. Her goal isn't to kill Ramsay. She's smarter than that.
It would put her on the level of Cersei, who is similarly scheming against people who threaten her without thinking about the consequences.
The episode did kind of set you up though to expect Sansa to stand up to Ramsay after she stood up to Miranda and showed how she's grown tougher and shit. Shame really.
Then again, we can probably expect more from her in the next few episodes.
I swear I'm trying my best
--Expect me to be V/LA from 10am-7pm PST every Mon, Wed, Thurs, Sat, Sun due to work--
