Micro 474: Over the Garden Wall Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Nachomamma8]

What has ANYONE done that's been unfakeable?

The question is more important for you to answer because you are the one claiming me considering alchemy scum is scummy

[Metal Sonic]

That's you. I don't think doduo is a good enough actor for that.

[Metal Sonic]

What has ANYONE done that's been unfakeable?

The question is more important for you to answer because you are the one claiming me considering alchemy scum is scummy

OK, he's thinking about the game and I don't see bullshit in his posts. He is literally scumhunting and considering many factors for his reads. Don't see scum doing that.

[Metal Sonic]

Also, literally no scum ever would try to push you in their own knowing that you're town.

That's unfakeable.

[Metal Sonic]

Nacho... Bussing is SO strongly discouraged in a micro with 2 scums.

I can't believe you even came up with the idea that both of us are scum (together?! Seriously?!)

I've bussed day 1 and coasted in plenty of micro games

Actually... How the heck do you manage to coast till end game without anybody asking "Why isn't nacho dead?"

You probably got good PR shots... Interesting...

[Metal Sonic]

That's you. I don't think doduo is a good enough actor for that.

Scrap this, Marquis is fully capable as scum. Don't think the hydra itself (troll style) can do it though, plus notty.

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist, Honey bee and gaiden, I would appreciate it if you guys switched over to Doduo, thanks.

I'm not really seeing scum in Doduo. He's early tunneling, sure, but plenty of Town do that. You yourself said Marquis is capable scum and a convincing actor. Do you think a capable scum player is just going to tunnel 1 player like the Doduo slot is doing? Even if Notscience did that, wouldn't Marquis try to make the slot come off as more fluid? I think the reality is that their slot is Town thinking they have scum for sure and want it dead.

[ActionDan]

Hi. My care: 0

[Alchemist21]

^ You need a care bear.

Also, where did Honey Bee go? I want their opinion on recent developments.

[Doduo]

I logged in an hour ago to post a short blurb about having work tomorrow through deadline just lynching the scum already but I got distracted by making crepes

and now there are all these posts talking about me <3

anyway yeah

just lynch the scum already

also I would probably plan to say that and actually say that as scum too especially after what Alch thinks my scumplay is like (close but no cigar) so I realize it's not really doing anything to address all these ~concerns~ but w/e idk

[Doduo]

i mean i guess i could
post a readslist

or something

but that would involve reading the thread in full again (assuming you want something taking recent stuff into account which is prob a given)

[Doduo]

also we usually don't sign

like 10% of the time i remember to quack but that leaves like 99% when i don't

[Doduo]

math

[Doduo]

alchy can be town
i guess
idk

[Doduo]

believe it or not i am trying here

i think i'm just having a problem getting footholds with how many accounts i've overcommitted myself to have to log into on a regular basis and this one is probably last on my list tbh

[Doduo]

That's you. I don't think doduo is a good enough actor for that.

Scrap this, Marquis is fully capable as scum. Don't think the hydra itself (troll style) can do it though, plus notty.

ok yeah this is still scum ms
gonna log out happy now bye!~

[Alchemist21]

i mean i guess i could
post a readslist

or something

but that would involve reading the thread in full again (assuming you want something taking recent stuff into account which is prob a given)

I couldn't catch you before you logged out apparantly.

If you come back, start reading at Page 13 and tell me what you think. That should be enough to give you a good handle on the recent events.

[Metal Sonic]

I'd be a little bit shocked if Doduo flipped town tbh. The reason I have doubt is because nacho just took a shot at both of us "we are scum buddies" which sounds terrible and is pretty noncommittal.

[Metal Sonic]

The most recent posts are... AtE.

[Doduo]

only browsing and back because of imminent deadline

pedit how are you even real
like
how are you


even real

[Doduo]

The most recent posts are... AtE.

impressive
now stop trying to sell it as a scumthing

[Doduo]

Specifically, 196 and 197

this response is interesting.

Spoiler:

I did that. I didn't glean a lot from it, because it's pretty obviously one of the first games he played here. It's pretty jam-packed with newbie questions or questions intended to look newbie, which I agree is not the same situation as in this game.

Soren claims he has over 40 games completed. I don't think that's what he was going for there; I think he was just asking as much stuff as he could to look busy and not realizing nothing he was asking had any town motivation.

@Endless Possibilities: Do you think that Soren is typically pretty wishy-washy on his own opinions or generally easily led? Do you have experience of him as town in a completed game? I read this:

Mini 1650: Greatest Idea Mafia

and Soren seemed a lot more forceful in that as town. His questions were much more pointed toward alignment and less busy-seeming. I don't see much other meta, but if you have it, I'll read it.

mm, I looked through this and the first thing I noticed is that in that game, he wasn't following closely at the start of the game (he says this in 268). it's usually easier to step back and take a fully objective view of the game when you already have a body of work of content to go off of, as opposed to seeing everything unfold firsthand.

also in that game, his opening (and his play in general) hardly consisted of any questions, as opposed to him primarily commenting on stuff. it's possible he just took a different approach here, or is having an off game

there's also some other things that I think might be different but haven't looked into it yet: for example, it's possible a lot of people were acting obviously scummy/town in that game, compared to this game which is rather slow (with at least 3 people having practically no content at all). I suppose what I'm saying here is that I don't find a lack of strong scum reads scummy, given my 2nd strongest scum read is fucking Anti just for not doing anything at all besides one somewhat-off-looking push.

besides that, I don't have any experience with town Soren, but I think the differences from his ISO here to the ISO in his scum game are a lot greater than the differences from his ISOs here/this game. I usually don't agree with calling someone scum because of minor differences to their town game, in no small part because I used to (and still am, to some extent) be known for being extremely obvious town as town and I would have that pushed on me a lot whenever I did so much as one thing that was different from any of my town games. this is moreso my method of reading people so make of it what you will.

I didn't like this because Antihero hasn't actually posted much in this game. No one has explained their vote on him very well. His vote is on LucianRoy, whom Soren was voting earlier for "meta" reasons that apparently both of them now agree were not very strong. LucianRoy is clearly not immune to OMGUS since he is scumreading two people currently on his wagon and one who was; it seems a little out of place for him to resolutely resist the same OMGUS urge where Soren is concerned.

I'm still not particularly seeing why this is scummy, explicitly because Anti hasn't posted much. it makes sense to poke at a lurker in order to get them to do shit. there were better questions he could have asked, but I could easily enough see it coming from town.

LR had also declared a town read on me after I started pushing on him (although I never voted him) so I'm not sure what to make of the second point. either way, I don't really think it makes sense as a scum strategy to OMGUS every town player who pressures you, so I don't think it makes sense him not OMGUS'ing Soren would be indicative of Soren scum, either.

This was interesting because I was voting LucianRoy at the time. It's like Soren is only interested in asking questions among the people who were voting LucianRoy. Soren also says he just wanted to see what I would say -- again, not owning the suspicion that is pretty clear in the question imo.

It's not just the questions for me, though I watch for that more since Farside pointed out it is one of her scumhunting tools. (Yes, I shamelessly borrow from other players.) Soren hasn't had any strong views -- in fact, he sheeped me onto LucianRoy and then immediately backed off his own vote without unvoting.

IMO a lack of strong stances isn't particularly scummy. it's either indicative of scum who don't want to fake reads, or town who legitimately don't have any reads and don't see it fit to pretend like they have reads that they really don't. what I find scummy is when people act like they have strong stances, but then don't actually do anything to follow through with them (ex. Aris WK'ing a lot of people who are under pressure but not doing anything to explain why).

in Soren's case, I think it's plausible enough he just doesn't have any strong reads yet. he's either scum who made a push and then didn't feel like continuing with it, or he's town telling the truth about not having a strong read on you and backed off for exactly the reason he said - that he asked the question to see what you would say as opposed to feeling strongly you were scum. either way, I don't think it's inconsistent.

one thing that I noticed when I played with him as scum was that there were basically no stances *at all*, which is kind of similar. I suppose it's not too unreasonable he's stepped up his game as scum to some extent and is more capable of taking stances but is not yet comfortable faking the strong pushes he made in his town game. however, I still think there's more stuff that points to him being town.

^ this was a post FROM MY LATEST TOWN GAME WITH MS. he was in THIS HYDRA with me for this game.

his angle here is that he's paranoid of me bc I'm supposedly making long/effortful posts early in the game. this is blatantly disingenuous. while long posts are not a tell either way for me, he has directly seen that it's something I do as town and that I'm more than capable of walling early game if I want to elaborate on or deconstruct posts in depth.

so him thinking I might be scum for it doesn't make any sense. I think he's going for a fake paranoia angle here, as in he pretends to be paranoid of someone bc ppl will hopefully see it and think something along the lines of "look at that paranoia, so town".

I'm aware this is supposedly just paranoia, but regardless, it doesn't make sense from a town POV. he knows it's not a scum tell yet supposedly is pushing it as one anyway.

If there's any indication he's scum from the way he's reacting to pie's posts, it's that it's easy to call Town Town and he knows this, and he's being pretty liberal with handing out the confTown statuses.

except this isn't what he's doing. what he's doing is calling me town, but then going back and saying he's paranoid of me for supposedly making long posts. that isn't committing to a town read on me.

rather than an actual town reaction - such as deconstructing my posts and trying to show me why he's not scum (which in this case is something I think he should be particularly likely to do here bc we have a pretty long history with each other), or committing to a firm read on me either way - we're seeing him do the "fake paranoia and start second guessing myself" routine.

pie is town.

also a good salesman because i now have restored faith in ms!scum

[Doduo]

I have some markers for what I look for in Marquis' scum game and I haven't been seeing them here,

oooh

what markers didn't you see

[Doduo]

I don't know what to defend myself against because pretty much everything against me is pretty baseless

I have answered all your questions though pie <3

now ms is doubleselling me on ms scum

[Doduo]

oh i did actually read some of this earlier

going through it now i