Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Albert B. Rampage]

Meh...

[Guardian]

Yos, I'm going to go ahead and say that if you are town you are very, very wrong, and if you are scum you are trying to win the game right here.

I tend to believe the latter, I am thinking UA is the wayward soul we need to convince, and that all 3 latecomers and me turned out to be town. I remember earlier how you were all "I don't think we can trust those late-comers at all. Unreliable tell. Etc".


Albert and I are not scum together, I am not scum, Albert therefore can't be scum... yeah.

Albert, innovative thinking, as that would prove I am not scum unless we are scum together -- frankly I am surprised at how sure you are of me being town that you would say that -- and thanks and good read, since I am.

I am about half done with my meat world work for today -- there is more to come definitely, again, I'd very much like to hear from PJ and Ibby.

[Yosarian2]

Albert and I are not scum together, I am not scum, Albert therefore can't be scum... yeah.

Right, Albert can't be scum unless you're scum. Which is why I want to lynch you first. However, if the extent of your argument is "I am not scum", I've not no qualms about doing that.

[Guardian]

Yos & others -- what do you want my argument to be? I know the truth, how do you want me to convince you of it? Literally -- we have less than 2 days -- and I need to convince every single other townie that Kinetic is the play. What do you want?

Also, Ibby and PJ may not be as sure as Albert, and I doubt the scum would be willing to accommodate us, but we could move the wagon to Albert and no hammer would occur, and then move it to PJ and Ibby and no hammer would occur. That would prove Albert-me-PJ-Ibby scum, or all of us as town .

[AniX]

You know, this reminds me of the time I was awesome.

[Spambot]

Also, Ibby and PJ may not be as sure as Albert, and I doubt the scum would be willing to accommodate us, but we could move the wagon to Albert and no hammer would occur, and then move it to PJ and Ibby and no hammer would occur. That would prove Albert-me-PJ-Ibby scum, or all of us as town .

That might be the single scummiest plan I've ever heard.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What the hell is AniX doing here ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Also, Ibby and PJ may not be as sure as Albert, and I doubt the scum would be willing to accommodate us, but we could move the wagon to Albert and no hammer would occur, and then move it to PJ and Ibby and no hammer would occur. That would prove Albert-me-PJ-Ibby scum, or all of us as town .

That might be the single scummiest plan I've ever heard.

QFT

[Guardian]

Notice the . I know there is no way that's happening -- but it *is* a logical extension of Albert's plan...

Gah, I just gave three scum great fodder.

[Yosarian2]

Yos & others -- what do you want my argument to be? I know the truth, how do you want me to convince you of it? Literally -- we have less than 2 days -- and I need to convince every single other townie that Kinetic is the play. What do you want?

(shrug) I'm honestly not sure what you could do at this point that could change my mind, Guardian; I just can not picture a scum group that does not include you in it. From my point of view, you being town would require that UltimaAvalon, Kinetic, and Spambot are all scum together. While that is theoretically possible, it seems much, much less likely to me then you are scum at this point. I guess if you wanted me to unvote you, you'd have to somehow convince me that a UA, Kinetic, Spambot scumgroup is more likely then any scumgroup containing you in it, and I can't imagine how you would do that.

Also, Ibby and PJ may not be as sure as Albert, and I doubt the scum would be willing to accommodate us, but we could move the wagon to Albert and no hammer would occur, and then move it to PJ and Ibby and no hammer would occur. That would prove Albert-me-PJ-Ibby scum, or all of us as town .

...and advice like that is not helping your case. Are you seriously suggesting that we bring 4 different people all the way up to lynch -1 in a lynch or lose scenerio? Wouldn't that, like, basically guarentee a town loss?

[Guardian]

Look, I am not suggesting we actually do that. But those three are confirmed town to me. And that scenario is a logical extension of Albert's scenario, that HE, not I, proposed.

Yos2, I really hope you are with Kinetic and Spambot and UA is more reasonable, because if you are town and you are going to be that hard to convince we're fucked.

[Guardian]

Also, Yos, what do you think of my proposed role changes. Do you propose that Ibby PJ and Albert are ALL scum with me? Since they have all not hammered me. PJ should definitely be moving to FBI.

[Yosarian2]

I don't think I understand why you want to move our only SIA guy over to crypto. You really think 3 cryptos and no SIA guys is a good stratagy? What good does that do us?

As for moving PJ over to FBI...I think we should keep him in the field until after the hour 12 kill. After that, perhaps, but as it is, this really sounds like an attempt on your part to either move your scum-buddy Albert over to the FBI, or to move PJ out of the field agent position just in time so you guys can kill Ibby hour 12.

Of course, this is all stuff that's going to take place after you're lynched and been proven to be scum anyway, so I wouldn't count on us taking much of your advice.

[ibaesha]

yeah but if kinetic and spambot are both scum (which you're trying to push)- then it doesn't matter how many investigations we have because they can just falsify them anyways.

[ibaesha]

simu-post

[Guardian]

^scum. (pointed at Yos)

UA is town, and is the person we have to convince the most, I think. Just wow if we snatch victory from the jaws of defeat here...


Albert, UA, PJ, Ibby -- y'all are town (maybe not UA but I think so). The rest of you are scum. Town, what is our plan here? And is there anything specific you want from me?


Ibby -- that is why I want UA to crypto -- one of spambot and kinetic can go to SIA, but we need a townie at crypto, so the investigations are *not* useless. PJ should go to FBI, since FBI actions are self contained.

[ibaesha]

My current problem is I still feel that Albert is scummy. And now we've got two sets of - if one is scum, so is the other.

Either you and Albert are both scum or Kinetic and spambot are both scum. I find spambot and albert the scummiest players so I'm having a hell of a time deciding which way to go here. The thing is Albert seems the scummiest to me, which would make you most likely scum too.

And could one of you (Albert/Guardian) please explain to me how/why you think Yos is scum in a clear, thoughtout process that doesn't include 'because he's experienced and tricksy!', because I'm not seeing it. In a scenario where you're both town, I find UA to be more likely scum than Yos.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Because he IS experienced and tricksy!

He's playing like Scum-Yos is playing, I tells ya.

[Guardian]

ibaesha -- I agree that it is *possible* that Yosarian2 is town. I doubt it because of his recent attitude, but it is possible. He is overly demanding in what he wants of me to change his mind, and I think my suggestions for the people to switch into the roles I suggested are also obviously the right decisions and he is disregarding them.



I think the (easier?) thing for me to argue for is that I am town -- and I don't mean me just saying it, I mean me going back and analyzing my own posts and showing why my behavior is consistent with me being town.

I don't think anyone disagrees that if I am town, then Ibby, Albert, and PJ MUST also be town. In the past, some people have berated me and said that with no investigation, only scumhunting is valuable and trying to argue for someone being townie is ridiculous. I disagree wholeheartedly -- I think it is just as legitimate to argue for my likely towness, and look at the logical conclusions that that implies.

So, unless I hear great contrast otherwise, I plan to re-start my pbpa with a force with the main focus being myself, and I plan to explain my actions and demonstrate how they are consistent with my being town.


If I can persuade you that I am town, that leads to Me, Albert, Ibby, and PJ being town.

With four townies, all the scum have to be on my wagon. As such, Kinetic is the obvious play, because if there are two scum and he is town, we win, and if there are three scum he logically *has* to be one of them as I demonstrated earlier.

Preemptively -- I got mislynched at endgame (having identified both remaining scum, might I add) for trying to explain something similar to this in AM Mafia (moded by Skruffs). Check out my wiki page if you don't believe me.

Does this make sense to everyone? (I care much less about Yos's opinion, to be honest, but he *could* be the last town, so why not...) I am especially interested in PJ Albert and Ibby's thoughts -- this does make sense I believe, and I will re-start the re-read with myself as the main target if you agree.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ibaesha -- I agree that it is *possible* that Yosarian2 is town.

It is impossible.

[Yosarian2]

Guardian, you can make as many wide and detailed analysises of what "must" be true if you're town as you want, but the fact is, they're all useless so long as it continues to look like it's pretty bloddy unlikely that you are town.

However, I'd certanly like to see how you intend to justify some of your actions in this game. Go ahead and "analyze" yourself if you want.

[Guardian]

ebwop: And, assuming the above, if Yosarian switches PJ to FBI agent, Albert can protect PJ aignd we get a guaranteed completed and true investation result -- so the question of whether Yos or UA is scum is moot.

There is no reason to rely on guesses/scum-hunting at this point. Erm, that sounds terribly wrong, watch for the opportunists who misquote me there, but the point is that if I can convince you that I am town and we lynch Kinetic today, a win will follow based on all logic, investigation, and deductions, with no need to analyze play.


ebwoPreview: Albert -- you really think so? I mean I think it is highly unlikely, but possible. I don't think I am up to arguing for it conclusively at this point, but I think it *doesn't matter* (see above).

I think if Yos2 doesn't go through with the role-changes I suggested though that he, being likely scum, should be lynched -- as him putting a scum-mate into an assassination role or some such would be devastating.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have a perfect plan.

no-lynch

PJ = FBI
ME = Field Agent protecting PJ
Spambot = Crypto
Guardian = field agent protecting Spambot

gg scum

[Guardian]

I have a perfect plan.

no-lynch

I thought you had a perfect plan? Explain?

PJ = FBI
ME = Field Agent protecting PJ
Spambot = Crypto
Guardian = field agent protecting Spambot

gg scum

Who would be deputy? Why am I guarding likely scum? Why would we put a likely scum in the deputy role?

PJ FBI and you guarding him is definitely optimal, though.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Doesn't Spambot have an innocent on him ?