Mini 1687: Refraction Mafia (WINNER!)

[Zoronos]

@Math: Why is plotinus town?

Plotinus from the past (before this post) is town because the injections into the Frogger conversation seemed like a desire to contribute and reduce sensationalism over Frogger's slot in the future, which is good.

Plotinus FROM THE FUTURE is town because scum would have to be SUPER fucking ballsy to start a huge discussion about people's breadcrumbing. One thing I've realised since my newbie days is that town tends to rolefish more than scum because everyone knows it just puts a giant spotlight on you.

Shinobi is asking the right questions but I'm not getting a good read there yet. Null-town?

abuse has actually stepped into scumread from this past conversation. He seems to be doing a lot of "arguing that people are wrong" and not much of "arguing people are scum". He starts what amounts to a useless semantics debate with Shinobi and (correct me if I'm wrong) spent a page arguing that Plotinus's vote 'looks bad' and not 'scummy'.

@abuse

, what are your scumreads? What's your read on Plotinus? Shinobi? Lapsa?

I like Zoronos.

Oh yeah and people should really shut up about the useless breadcrumb discussion. It's distracting from the fact that at the end of the day, Lapsa's present in the thread and reading the thread but can't be bothered to give actual thoughts instead of responding to stuff directed at him. So I'll roll with the Lapsa wagon.

UNVOTE: texcat
VOTE: Lapsa

FoS: abuse

Edit: @BBT: JP Mafia all over again, eh? Now you know how I felt

Lapsa would just be a pressure vote, I don't have a read on him yet. Pressure votes are cool and all, but...
Abuse is actually playing scummy, imo. 67 reads super fake. Frogger's posted opinions on Platonius 2 or 3 times; it was a question already answered in the thread. Also, calling something 'interesting' as a synonym for scummy I am not down with. (He clearly was implying scummy, otherwise he wouldn't be interrogating Frogger or using a pejorative)
VOTE: Abuse

[Plotinus]

Plotinus has two modes. Verbose and cryptic, but he's trying to learn a middle ground (from his GTKAS in his sig). I prefer verbose Plotinus myself, even if it leads to some walls to read. Plotinus is most definitely a newbie, and will make some mistakes, but mistakes don't mean he's scum. For example, the game I observed he forgot to count the RVS votes and accidentally derphammered someone, and got painted super suspicious/scummy for it. I can't say how he plays scum, because I've never seen him play scum. My intent is to read into Plotinus' emotions/motivation to see if what he does is towny or scummy. My other intention is to ask him if he is scum and see if he giggles.

Plotinus, are you scum?

nope, are you?

ugh that game was embarrassing. I was tracker in that game and the person i hammered was the other power role. I took a lot of flak for it but I was part of a conftown bloc by LYLO. we lost anyway, though.

Have you read any of my less embarrassing completed games?


also, there is between 0 and 1 scum in the group {Me, Lapsa}.

[Fro99er]

I am townleaning fro99er for now because I’ve liked his posts so far and his response to pressure seemed natural. In 31, I actually meant that it would be obvious in general, even to people who aren’t me.

In pretty much all of his games he’s universally townread once he gets going

.

This is true

But saying that was also somewhat of a test, because if he isn't town here then he might feel pressured by knowing that he has a reputation to live up to. Since fro99er has moved into the townlean pile, my vote was no longer doing anything useful.

I don't believe 31 was a test. I believe it was you pointing out how I should be obvscum if I am scum. If it was a test, it was a pretty weak test, because I already know my town reputation, and would be aware of that.

Plotinus is in my nullscum pile as of now. I do like Ploti's pressure of Lapsa and agree with it. I do like he's being truthful about my play. I didn't like his passiveness on me, and the weak test. I did not like the pointing out of the crumb either.

[Fro99er]

nope, are you?

100% town

ugh that game was embarrassing. I was tracker in that game and the person i hammered was the other power role. I took a lot of flak for it but I was part of a conftown bloc by LYLO. we lost anyway, though.

Have you read any of my less embarrassing completed games?

Briefly read through the one you posted where there was a crumbed vanilla role. I read it up for other ongoing game reasons I cannot discuss however.

also, there is between 0 and 1 scum in the group {Me, Lapsa}.

You know the way to my heart is through frogs and math. Well played.

[Fro99er]

@Shinobi:

No, I have seen vanilla town do it too but it’s dumb.

Scum has to explain why they’re still alive when LYLO comes around. Scum wouldn’t be trying to deflect the nightkill with a post like that, they would be trying to show that they’re town see they crumbed it way back when.

I kind of find the bolded to be hard to believe.

Why did you not bother to look it up instead of just saying you don't believe him? He obviously later pointed it out and wasn't lying. You could have looked it up for yourself before throwing poo at Ploti about not believing him.

[Aeronaut]

VC 1.1

VoteCount 1.1

Mathdino

-

Thor665, Lapsa

(L-4)

toolenduso

-

texcat

(L-6)

CB -

Cthulhu Dreaming -

Thor665 -

Shinobi -

texcat -

Plotinus

-

Cthulhu Dreaming, Shinobi

(L-6)

Fro99er

-

toolenduso

(L-6)

BlueBloodedToffee -

abuse

-

Zoronos

(L-6)

Lapsa

-

abuse, Plotinus, Mathdino, Fro99er

(L-3)

Not Voting

-

CB, BlueBloodedToffee

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2015-06-28 23:00:32)

Fun Fact: A large number of insects can see ultraviolet (UV) light.

[Fro99er]

Shinobi is townish unless Lapsa flips scum (Lapsa flipping scum means 65 is a chainsaw). More likely it's the case that Shinobi is town.

Are you serious? 65 hardly reads as a chainsaw. I think you're reading waaay to much into it. Here's 65

Spoiler: 65

First impression. This person:

Mathdino,

My question to Plotinus was re these two posts which said almost the same thing. I was wondering why he said the same thing twice, especially when he didn't have much else to say. It looked like it might be a soft defense of Frogger. I did miss your direct question to him in 42.

Plus I am always skeptical when someone claims to be able to sort or read someone else. I've found that at least half of the time they are wrong.

If fro99er is scum, it’s probably his first time so it’ll be obvious soon enough, I think.

I don’t know fro99er well enough yet to have a serious read yet. This is our first game together, but we’ve spectated a few of each other’s games and then we finally had a conversation recently. I know that usually he’s pretty obvtown so given time he’ll be easy enough to sort.

Is kinda smart. I agree with the Plotinus votes as of right now. Not a fan of his unexplained scumread on Lapsa and his non-opinion on Frogger leaves something to be desired.
VOTE: plotinus

All that it said was not a fan of unexplained scumread. That wasn't exactly a defense of Lapsa as much as a point against Plotinus. Especially when he tacks on the other part about Plotinus' non-opinion of me.

[Lapsa]

Go Lapsa!

[Plotinus]

you’re supposed to save those up for the twilight trolling phase after your flip

[Zoronos]

I am super lazy and don't feel like back reading. Plotinus, you said you had played about 4 games so far, right?

Frogger - Here's a reason why I'm chucking Plot in my lean town pile, agree or disagree? - He stepped up, without prompting, to take responsibility for knowing if you were or weren't scum. He said as much as "I will be able to give a good and reliable read on Frogger." Without prompting. Nobody was all "Hey Plot you think you can read Frogger?" He took responsibility that nobody made him take, that's towny. UNLESS YOU FLIP SCUM DUN DUN DUN.

[Zoronos]

[quote="In post 83,
All that it said was not a fan of unexplained scumread. That wasn't exactly a defense of Lapsa as much as a point against Plotinus. Especially when he tacks on the other part about Plotinus' non-opinion of me.

That's what a chainsaw is; defense by attacking the attacker. And it only works as a tell *after* Lapsa has flipped scum. That's why it's 'note for later' and not "Shinobi is clearly scum let's get him".

[Fro99er]

Zoro - agree RE: Plotinus.

Ploti's honesty reads towny to me. He provided a link to the vanilla crumb from a previous game, he's got the right mindset about Lapsa when he responded to you about "towning up the slot on page 3". I can possibly write off his early passiveness toward me as just truthful honesty instead. He eventually backed up a read on me as well.

[Plotinus]

@Fro99er, by passiveness, are you referring to me saying I was still null on you back on page 2 or something else?

@Zoronos: zeah, 4ish. (+ ongoing that can’t be discussed, + a couple offsite that dont count)

[Zoronos]

@Fro99er, by passiveness, are you referring to me saying I was still null on you back on page 2 or something else?

@Zoronos: zeah, 4ish. (+ ongoing that can’t be discussed, + a couple offsite that dont count)

Not concerned about actual number. I asked because I want to get a sense for your propensity to be ballsy-scum. Brand new scum can be ballsy, but I lean towards seeing responsibility-avoidant behavior from new scum, rather than responsibility seeking.
Actually I lean towards seeing responsibility-avoidant from all scum, but it's not a guaranteed tell.

[Plotinus]

That makes sense.

You’re talking like you have more experience than I do, but your join date is after mine. Do you have more experience elsewhere?

[Zoronos]

Yes.

[Zoronos]

But I don't want to talk about it so let's move on to finding scum, tia.

[Zoronos]

Go Lapsa!

Lapsa, be a bud and vote Abuse with me.

[Fro99er]

@Fro99er, by passiveness, are you referring to me saying I was still null on you back on page 2 or something else?

By your post 48 I had already made 9 posts. Your post 48 was simply stating "we can sort frogger later" (in simple terms), rather than starting to try to sort me from my first 9 posts. There was content there to be analyzed. That's why I meant passive.

[toolenduso]

Eh I think Lapsa looks kinda towny. It'd be a little counter-intuitive as scum to respond to this pressure by continuing to engage in the behavior that's led people to vote for you. He doesn't look like he's trying to convince people he's town.

[Plotinus]

@Zoronos: fair enough. Thanks.

@Mathdino: you FOSed abuse but you’re sharing a wagon with him, though abuse’s vote here seems to have been RVS because it was in 12. Is Lapsa your stronger scumread at the moment?

pedit: @Frogger: oh, ok. yeah, the first few pages are hard for me in real time. I work better with larger patterns.

[toolenduso]

@abuse: You voted Lapsa during RVS and it's still there, do you believe in the vote now? If so, why? If not, then do you find Plotinus scummy?

[Mathdino]

I am bothered and offput by the concept that you are trying to understand my posts enough to be confused by 26...but yet also somehow miss 28, which is a clarification of 26.
You feel fake.
I think you're trying to paint a picture of someone concerned with facts in order to appear town.

I actually said in my post after 26/28 that I understood 26 was directed at tool, it was just the pronoun usage that confused me. Couldn't figure out if 'he' referred to me or Frogger.

Tbf I think a miscommunication between us is an objectively shitty reason for a scumread, but there are probably other reasons so could you dump all you have on me in one post?

Eh I think Lapsa looks kinda towny. It'd be a little counter-intuitive as scum to respond to this pressure by continuing to engage in the behavior that's led people to vote for you. He doesn't look like he's trying to convince people he's town.

I want to agree with you... but at the same time he's dead weight and it's not like I'm voting him for his personality, I'm voting him so he gets off his ass. I'll unvote when he contributes. Otherwise you bet I'm pushing for a lynch if he can't hold up to the standards of contributing to the game.

@Mathdino: you FOSed abuse but you’re sharing a wagon with him, though abuse’s vote here seems to have been RVS because it was in 12. Is Lapsa your stronger scumread at the moment?

I don't see the connection? I'm not coming up with scumteams here and voting each other certainly isn't going to rule out a scumteam. Weird premise for a question, but question stands.
abuse is a stronger scumread but my vote's better served on Lapsa. Totally down with endorsing the abuse wagon and all that since that's where my vote's going after Lapsa talks.

Not that this needs to be said AGAIN but I'm pretty much agreeing with everything Zoronos says at this point. Hoping that wasn't the intended result.

Spoiler:

this would probably be a bad time to tell you zoronos is my alt
/sarcasm

[Shinobi]

Zoro - agree RE: Plotinus.

Ploti's honesty reads towny to me. He provided a link to the vanilla crumb from a previous game, he's got the right mindset about Lapsa when he responded to you about "towning up the slot on page 3". I can possibly write off his early passiveness toward me as just truthful honesty instead. He eventually backed up a read on me as well.

That's not really the point I was making though.

[Plotinus]

@Mathdino about 122: I remember someone in one of my games (hopefully a completed one. pretty sure anyway.) saying something about working together (being on the same wagon) with a scumread being bad but i don’t remember who right now. might have been BBT? if i figure out what game it was from i’ll link it or say something more coherent tomorrow (bit of a headache tonight)

I think it’s more of a later game thing or at least a “not rvs thing” because if a scumread is pushing a wagon and they’re actually scum then it’s good to ask yourself why they’re pushing the wagon and why you’re on it but abuse isn’t really pushing the wagon and it’s a stale rvs vote at this point.

Sorry if this was incoherent. I am going to stop staring at the computer for now.