MINI 1688 — BEES!!! — game over

[TellTaleHeart]

Bella townread was half arsed yes. It's evaporated by now though.

Oh...?

[Fro99er]

I guess it depends on the severity of the read but when I view a vote as suspicious it usually stems from the idea that the player being voted for isn't actually scum.

Understood, and I'd agree if it wasn't, oh, a couple hours into the game.

But at that point in the game, I was just trying to get ducky to talk after having 4 of what I incorrectly thought were useless posts. And you know what? Her next three posts were much better! I explained I wasn't worried about a quickhammer or anything, so TTH's suspicious vote didn't much matter at that point because a quicklynch wasn't happening.

[Marquis]

(expired on 2015-06-19 17:45:00)

(Fri Jun 19 @ 5:45:00 PM EST)

VOTECOUNT 1.08

• (3)

  Bellaphant

  —
  Glork, Untrod Tripod, Bob Loblaw
  
  (0)

  Bicephalous Bob

  —
  
  
  (0)

  Bob Loblaw

  —
  
  
  (0)

  Fro99er

  —
  
  
  (0)

  Glork

  —
  
  
  (0)

  Green Crayons

  —
  
  
  (1)

  KayP

  —
  Bellaphant
  
  (0)

  Kitty Galore

  —
  
  
  (3)

  lalaladucks

  —
  Kitty Galore, Shadoxx8, TellTaleHeart
  
  (4)

  Shadoxx8

  —
  KayP, lalaladucks, Green Crayons, Fro99er
  (L-3)
  
  
  (0)

  TellTaleHeart

  —
  
  
  (0)

  The Bulge

  —
  
  
  (2)

  Untrod Tripod

  —
  The Bulge, Bicephalous Bob
  
  
  (0)

  (NOT VOTING)

  —
  
  
  With
  13

  alive
  , it takes
  7

  votes
  to lynch.
  
  

  ---

  Fro99er
  is V/LA until
  Thurs Jun 18 @ 10 PM EST
  .

[Bicephalous Bob]

Is this going to be "let's take little potshots at TTH because Bella is my houseplant"? I'm telling you right now, I'm going to fucking hate your guts if you play that game.

No, this is "let's chastize and maybe hang TTH for wording a case in such a way I can hardly believe she believes it herself."

Do you have any reads on pre-2015 players?

[KayP]

You know, the more wine I drink, the more I really want to take a defibrillator to the ducks wagon.

You are being so awkward.

It's little, throwaway things like Post 117 that bug me. I make a raspberry after reading those kinds of posts. The Bella town read was really half-assed and you just kind of piggy-backed on KayP's Shadox case.
I haven't seen anything that looks legit from you and I was kind of expecting to see it by now.

As a note, I'm not sure what else people could say about the Shadoxx thing at this point. I made as many comments as one can make about Shadoxx's two posts so far, so I feel like "piggy-backing" on what I've said is about all anyone can do right now.

VOTE: lalaladucks

I see your vote, and I'm assuming it's due to the most recent ducks post before this one, but can you point out what about that post you found vote-worthy?

[TellTaleHeart]

As a note, I'm not sure what else people could say about the Shadoxx thing at this point. I made as many comments as one can make about Shadoxx's two posts so far, so I feel like "piggy-backing" on what I've said is about all anyone can do right now.

I know it's not what anyone wants to hear, but the Shadox case is pretty trumped up and not really deserving of the attention or the wagon it's getting. The second post that seems to be the center of the big to-do (Post 111) is rambling and doesn't go anywhere. I strongly suspect that most of the bad feelings about this post are

actually

rooted in the writing style. Since there's no baseline yet for what to expect from Shadox, there's a number of ways to interpret the post. You all

chose

to interpret it in the scummy way and imposed that meaning, but the chances of Shadox actually flipping scum are still right around random to me because "he's an awkward newb" can't be solidly ruled out. I don't form reads that way because I find that's not a good way to go about it.

(By the way, this is what makes Bob's whiteknighting "crusade for the newbies" so disingenuous. The case where it would actually

make an impact

, he seems to be content to shrug his shoulders and let that wagon roll.)

Is this going to be "let's take little potshots at TTH because Bella is my houseplant"? I'm telling you right now, I'm going to fucking hate your guts if you play that game.

No, this is "let's chastize and maybe hang TTH for wording a case in such a way I can hardly believe she believes it herself."

Do you have any reads on pre-2015 players?

Yes, I think you're scum. Bring it.

[Green Crayons]

I strongly suspect that most of the bad feelings about this post are actually rooted in the writing style.

No, it's the fencesitting.

[Bellaphant]

Is this going to be "let's take little potshots at TTH because Bella is my houseplant"? I'm telling you right now, I'm going to fucking hate your guts if you play that game.

There's really nothing that says the scum read on Kay is legit and I

really

don't like Bella's reaction to Glork because the context very much suggests "kneejerk reaction." If you want to argue those point in ~words~ please do so. If you think the Kay push is super-de-dooper and beautiful, fine. The sharpshooting at "ergh, something about the time frame" or "Let me be obtuse and everything is so clearly explained" is irritating.

You got potshots because your case doesn't make sense, and it was worded in a disingenuous way: you vote lalla at -2 without comment, which is a bit gross because I've just played a non-newbie game that ended after 7 PAGES 'coz of shit like that. Frog thinks you have magical voting powers, but doesn't react against it the way I'd expect: we later find this is because he mis-read the situation and I mis-read his mis-read! The mis-read of the joke also, to me, makes Frog's weird meta push on, like page 2 more understandable: it's easy to see how the same person who would miss a joke would do that. So my read on him improved. @boblob, does that clarify things for you too?

The progression of thought is super obvious, as were my concerns about Kay.

Her alternative was to tell Glork to lick her ass and that she wasn't going to vote Kay.

The Kay vote was happening whatever.

It still does not follow.

"Frogger saw X as suspicious. Frogger continued to push wagon despite suspicion X."

Even if she originally viewed X as the triple vote nonsense, she should have recognized that the same principle applies to the L-2 Vote.

That whole interaction just feels off. I feel there's definitely scum in at least one of Frogger + Bella.

I'm actually not understanding your point here? It feels opposite to the one you were making previously.


@bice-bob, are you still rvs-ing?

p-edit, hmmm, tth. What are you differentiating your base-line for 'awkward newbs' on?

[Fro99er]

I know it's not what anyone wants to hear, but the Shadox case is pretty trumped up and not really deserving of the attention or the wagon it's getting.

So what are we supposed to do? Let the newbie sit there and do nothing as we approach 3 days from deadline? He

has

posted today...but not in this thread.

[Green Crayons]

Frog, you make it sound like you agree that the Shadox case is "trumped up and not really deserving of the attention or the wagon it's getting," but GOSH DARN IT your hands are tied because otherwise NEWBIES and NO POSTING.

[TellTaleHeart]

I see your vote, and I'm assuming it's due to the most recent ducks post before this one, but can you point out what about that post you found vote-worthy?

A few things:

*

Overall the way she's responding to pressure is very

deflective

. Examples: "Piggy backs are fun, what's wrong with having fun?" "I haven't seen anything particularly legit from you tbh."

*

She talks

around

the point. That's really what I meant by not liking things like Post 117. Awesome, ducks thinks hypocrisy isn't a scumtell. So...what are the implications of that? What's the impact on her reads? Where is she going with this? The lack of answers to any of those questions suggests posts like those are fillers to look participative while not actually accomplishing anything.

*

Turning everything around on me when I call her on her crap. By the way, "I haven't seen anything particularly legit from you tbh." kind of clashes with "Bella townread was half arsed yes. It's evaporated by now though." considering that I spent most of my time talking about how my Bella scum read, but maybe I'm just being self-centered there.

[TellTaleHeart]

p-edit, hmmm, tth. What are you differentiating your base-line for 'awkward newbs' on?

The newbie game where he got mislynched Day 1.
That, by itself, is already foreboding.

[TellTaleHeart]

I strongly suspect that most of the bad feelings about this post are actually rooted in the writing style.

No, it's the fencesitting.

GC, you are

way

above relying on buzzwords to make cases.

[Fro99er]

My point was, if people don't push on Shadoxx (or Kitty), we're just going to let them sit there and do fuck all in a quick game. It's one thing to go V/LA or just completely flake. It's another thing to be active elsewhere yet not post in this thread.

[Fro99er]

(directed at GC)

[Bellaphant]

No, I actually think your point on lala's response to you is really weird, TTH. If you aren't legit, and you were the loudest banger of my scum-drum, where's her read gone?

p-edit, @Frog, it's frustrating as this is a shorter deadline day

[TellTaleHeart]

My point was, if people don't push on Shadoxx (or Kitty), we're just going to let them sit there and do fuck all in a quick game. It's one thing to go V/LA or just completely flake. It's another thing to be active elsewhere yet not post in this thread.

Is that for real? Let's go see...

[Green Crayons]

GC, you are way above relying on buzzwords to make cases.

A) Don't attack the form instead of the substance of my suspicion. Buzzword pearl clutching is something I have done myself, but I'm using the term here as a summary of the main thrust of the criticism directed at Shadox that Kay already spelled out in Post 132 (which you're ignoring in favor of a problem with writing style).

You're trying to shame me for not rising to my ego on the basis that I used shorthand to reiterate 132. No dice.

B) He is fencesitting regarding ducks: RVS ducks vote. Fine. Then comes back to say that ducks's play is consistent with ducks' D1 play generally. Also fine. Then compares ducks's D1 play to a lot of players, thereby suggesting that this is a town read. Then immediately notes that prior experience with an undefined "she" (ducks? good monring?) D1 play was scum play. End result is Shadox has successful established that ducks play could be town, could be scum, and he maintains his vote.

What's that? Fencesitting.

[Green Crayons]

My point was, if people don't push on Shadoxx (or Kitty), we're just going to let them sit there and do fuck all in a quick game. It's one thing to go V/LA or just completely flake. It's another thing to be active elsewhere yet not post in this thread.

That's cool and all, but my point is is that you appear to agree with TTH's basic premise (the Shadox wagon is bad for the reasons previous articulated ITT), but that you're maintaining a Shadox vote now simply as a lurker vote.

I'm trying to figure out what suspicions you are still embracing, and what suspicions you're dropping.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yes... And?

There's a missing piece here and that's proof that it's a calculated move to maintain credibility. Right now, the case is founded on that just being assumed. Assumptions are what mislynches are made of. And if you think this is an ego play, then you're kind of right because this case is Dressed up with a capital D.

[TellTaleHeart]

My point was, if people don't push on Shadoxx (or Kitty), we're just going to let them sit there and do fuck all in a quick game. It's one thing to go V/LA or just completely flake. It's another thing to be active elsewhere yet not post in this thread.

Is that for real? Let's go see...

It is but it's still circumstantial.

[Green Crayons]

There's a missing piece here and that's proof that it's a calculated move to maintain credibility.

I have no idea what you are saying here. What missing piece?

[TellTaleHeart]

B) He is fencesitting regarding ducks: RVS ducks vote. Fine. Then comes back to say that ducks's play is consistent with ducks' D1 play generally. Also fine. Then compares ducks's D1 play to a lot of players, thereby suggesting that this is a town read. Then immediately notes that prior experience with an undefined "she" (ducks? good monring?) D1 play was scum play. End result is Shadox has successful established that ducks play could be town, could be scum, and he maintains his vote.

So you don't know which antecedents go to which pronouns and the overall message of the post is confusing?

It's almost like the root cause of this is... unclear writing. Where did I hear that before?

[TellTaleHeart]

There's a missing piece here and that's proof that it's a calculated move to maintain credibility.

I have no idea what you are saying here. What missing piece?

That he's

intentionally

obfuscating the meaning of his post.
(I think

my

writing has been really

bleh

the past couple days. Ack!)

[Untrod Tripod]

() Untrod Tripod — The Bulge, Bicephalous Bob

this should be two votes, yes?

in other news I still want to lynch the ducks!

quack quack, motherfucker

---

2 inserted. B)