League of Legends (Old)

[notscience]

What if he has like an inverse nami passive

Whenever he is near water he speeds up

[Papa Zito]

Tamm, the River King, the new champion.

I think he's a support.

This video is so Bastion.

[hitogoroshi]

re: vlad build


like, say you have rylais already when you complete it, you get 9% enemy hp damage on your damaging skills. Say your average enemy at that point has 2500 hp, that gives ~1250 current hp give or take on average. So that's 112.5 damage you get out of that if you don't stack your abilites (and lets be fair, you will q stuff you've e'd within 3 secs). For that damage you need 250 hp to get it off tides (less off transfusion). So slot effiency for hat is already achieved at 300 ap. That's runes, masteries, wota, zonyas, rylays and you are already there, and that's with calculating everything in favor of liandry's so far. Still, that's a break even.

Say you get to 6th item with that build (so add a void staff, another 80 AP, I think that puts you past 400 ap already, given the percentage ap mastery you take, I think. And there you have to chose between building out your guise or selling it for a hat. The AP hat passive gives you out of the void staff is worth 650, that's more than the 440 that it would cost you to sell guise at that point. So at that point on top of simply getting a lot more damage out of your slots (since you are now over 100 past the break even), you are also winning out in gold, if you still care about it at that point.

I think you're forgetting that when you sell the Guise you also lose the HP/pen

[Chevre]

ooh Jinx is so much fun!

[mykonian]

I think you're forgetting that when you sell the Guise you also lose the HP/pen

I wasn't. Otherwise you'd have to calculate with the full cost of guise, the money you get includes the value the item had to you before. The same money then goes into the value of the comparing item, so it's on both sides of the equation and cancels out. The only part that isn't on both sides of the equation is the reduced amount of money you get back, and the difference in value of both items. Which I compared.

And on top of that, I took a couple of estimations in liandry's favor and none in hat's, and even then I can't justify keeping liandry's. Calculated with tide's ap ratio in stead of transfusion, assumed that you wouldn't hit spells on the same person within 3 seconds to get the max amount of use out of liandry's. Didn't even consider that transfusion has two AP ratio's, one that liandry's doesn't affect at all.

Is it that surprising that the item that dump's ~1000 gold into a passive that doesn't scale off anything else you build is worse than the well scaling deathcap on an AP champion lategame?

[Iecerint]

The passive does scale with enemy HP, though, which has maximally scaled up by late game.

[mykonian]

yes, which is why I think the average max health of 2500 that I used to calculate isn't too far off the truth. Top easily goes over that, jungler could probably hit 3k as well, but probably bought cheaper/utility items. Support won't make it, neither will the adc. Some mids might, but not the ones that are commonly played and you are already vlad yourself, who's one of the few rylai's/roa champs that are in meta.

Just look at the item, it's going to be at it's best on a champ with repeated magic damage and cc who isn't building ap, hopefully has some high base damage on said ability. Guise is a great midgame item when most of the people don't have that much mr and it multiplies your base damages greatly. When you hear hito being enthousiastic about guise it's because of his stacked tides damage.

In comparison, vlad is a lategame teamfighting monster, possible lategame splitpushing threat, who wins the game if he doesn't lose it earlier. I don't think you want to sell out some of your lategame dps to get a early mid game power spike. But that argument has been had before. Either way, liandry's is simply not a great fit for the powercurve and ideal items vlad's abilities give him.

[hiplop]

vlad's strength is long extended teamfights, though? Tides with liandrys basically ensures everyone in a giant radius is constantly being burned? It's the first thing I sell once I'm full build, but its late game is being underrated a bit here, i think?

[Iecerint]

I think it could be OK if you end up with low-MR, health-stacking opponents (i.e., enemy tanks build health, enemy squishies build damage).

WOTA
Zhonya
Rylai
Liandry
Deathcap
Ionian
[15% CDR in runes/masteries]

Is how I would do it in that case. But it also depends on how tanky you need to be. You can replace Rylai/Liandry with Luden/Void if you were way ahead by midgame. And you of course need Void if you end up having to spend a lot of effort on people with MR. And you will have an Abyssal in there if you were laning against AP and needed it, or maybe even both an Abyssal and a SpiritVisage if the enemy is running 3 AP damage threats (or 2 fed ones).

Such strategic diversity. ^_^

I think deathcap is going to be even more important to him with the stronger multipler and it becoming the only 120 AP item.

[mykonian]

vlad's strength is long extended teamfights, though? Tides with liandrys basically ensures everyone in a giant radius is constantly being burned? It's the first thing I sell once I'm full build, but its late game is being underrated a bit here, i think?

Tides with deathcap and ap items at that point just does more damage though with tides. See previous maths. And if you already have a hat in your build it just passes on to the next item that does multiply with hat/other ap for it's damage which will be better in comparison to liandry's.

Don't get distracted by the fancy burn animation That's for other champions, not scaling lategame ap carries.

[Iecerint]

Myko, are you taking into account Liandry's having 80 AP and 100 AP being the highest tier?

[mykonian]

Nah, these were old numbers.

I suspect with the changes, the concept is the same, numbers are different. Hat gets buffed, liandry's gets buffed, rylai's slow gets nerfed. So that's 12% nerf there in the liandry's/rylai's combo, 5% extra scaling off ap you build on hat. I can't really see through how much the lower AP generally will affect the reasoning I had further.

Lets see. That puts the value of the passive at ~250 gold. That's a pretty big change. Even at 88%, you get a lot of damage for that money. Not sure if you could find the items you'd rather have who have more ap and more value in their passives.

Pfft. Someday I could do the maths on the comparative 6 item builds with upcoming items, but idk. Can I recruit someone else for that?

[Iecerint]

Rylai's slow is buffed in magnitude and nerfed in duration I think. Also, AoEs that apply damage instantly now apply the full slow (e.g., Malzahar Q now applies the full slow, but Malzahar W/E do not). I think that's a buff to Rylai's slow for most champions. But ya, maybe a nerf to Liandry+Rylai depending on when Liandry checks for for whether a slow is currently active.

The cost of Liandry is being increased a bit to compensate, but less than 30 AP worth (I think it's an extra 300 gold IIRC).

[mykonian]

liandry's checks every half second, so the slow currently covered half the liandry's duration, will become 1/3rd.

[Iecerint]

What about the factor of CC sources elsewhere on your team?

Say, if you could assume that you always got the full liandry burn (e.g., you have a Sejuani jungle or Ashe ADC).

[mykonian]

shouldn't the sejuani build it at that point?

[Iecerint]

shouldn't the sejuani build it at that point?

I like the way you think.

[hiplop]

vlad's strength is long extended teamfights, though? Tides with liandrys basically ensures everyone in a giant radius is constantly being burned? It's the first thing I sell once I'm full build, but its late game is being underrated a bit here, i think?

Tides with deathcap and ap items at that point just does more damage though with tides. See previous maths. And if you already have a hat in your build it just passes on to the next item that does multiply with hat/other ap for it's damage which will be better in comparison to liandry's.

Don't get distracted by the fancy burn animation That's for other champions, not scaling lategame ap carries.

BUT ITS SO FANCY

[Chevre]

I feel like this was a fun first attempt at Wukong:



And then I played Ryze which was TURRIBLE because I was in mid lane with a weirdly inept Amumu for a while and then our bot lane was getting pushed back very far so I pushed it all the way back until we had all three inhibitors destroyed and won handily

I'm learning to take better advantage of the grassy patches which is cool

[The Bulge]

I can't stand Silver. Fuck.

I'm not saying I belong in a higher rank. But the people you get in Silver are just awful. A couple games ago I was jungling, Vayne leeched gromp xp and then every lane died before my first clear. I hate playing support because no matter how well I do, support can't carry and my team mates are always idiots. But I'm not good enough at any other role to excel.

Fuck. I mean, I'm 24-38 in ranked. I'm just getting so sick of it.

[Psyche]

Yeah, I think I'm giving up on support specifically because it's so hard to carry with one when your teammates can't.
But maybe I'm just not good enough at support?

[zoraster]

I find it hard to carry with support with my silvers iv account but I actually find I make a huge difference at silver I/gold v mmr

[Iecerint]

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

[The Bulge]

After two losses in a row in ranked, I go 5/7/30 as Thresh, S- ranking.... in normals.

[p2]

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

see?
playing support kills your faith in your ability to do the impossible