MINI 1688 — BEES!!! — game over

[Marquis]

Votecount...

Spoiler: ...remains unchanged from previous.

(expired on 2015-06-26 20:30:00)

(Fri Jun 26 @ 8:30:00 PM EST)

VOTECOUNT 2.08

• (2)

  Tammy

  —
  Glork, Fro99er
  (L-3)
  
  
  (0)

  Tere

  —
  
  
  (0)

  Fro99er

  —
  
  
  (1)

  Glork

  —
  Tammy
  
  (0)

  Green Crayons

  —
  
  
  (0)

  KayP

  —
  
  
  (0)

  SleepyKrew

  —
  
  
  (0)

  lalaladucks

  —
  
  
  (0)

  RedCoyote

  —
  
  
  (3)

  The Bulge

  —
  EspeciallyTheLies, Green Crayons, KayP
  (L-3)
  
  
  (2)

  EspeciallyTheLies

  —
  RedCoyote, lalaladucks
  
  
  (3)

  (NOT VOTING)

  —
  SleepyKrew, The Bulge, Tere
  
  With
  11

  alive
  , it takes
  6

  votes
  to lynch.
  
  

  ---

  The Bulge
  is V/LA until
  Sat Jun 27 @ 4 PM EST
  .
  
  Awaiting prod response from: N/A

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If you are town, reexamine and give me your thoughts.

What is there to reexamine? I've got a strong scumread on your slot, that's not something that's just going to up and change. I'd say it could evolve over time as I see how you scumhunt and react to wagons/other players, but we both know there's no time for that.

Lucky for you, however, I do have other scumreads. lalala, for example, would be a player I would be content to lynch today.

That said, I do not want to lynch Glork. I don't really want to lynch Tammy, either. I don't know if either of these players could sell me on those wagons today.

Do you not know how to reevaluate reads? I'm telling you right now that you are incredibly wrong. I don't care what your scumread is based on. It's incorrect. Plain and simple.

Now, if you decide to reevaluate the information that you have - which is more than I have since you've been here and playing the game - and find that you still feel the same way, then fine. But at least take the time to do that. Fit me into your little reads as town and see what changes based on the reactions you have already witnessed. If nothing changes and you still think I'm scum, then so be it.

You'd still be wrong, but at least you'd be wrong after some research.

p-edit:

MARQUIS. PLEASE.

[Green Crayons]

Alright I'm going to go eat and drink merrily, and deal with this game tomorrow.

I'm jumping on a ETL lynch today. I'd be much more comfortable waiting for tomorrow for ETL to better address RC's case.

So there's that. I bid y'all adieu.

[Green Crayons]

I'm not jumping on an ETL lynch today.*

Deleted some words from that sentence and got rid of the most important one.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

address RC's case.

This would be an exercise in futility. It's based on the actions of UT, which I can't explain because I'm not him, and I already know the case is bad because I know I'm town. I would much rather sort him out and figure out his motivations here and whether or not the scumread is genuine or fabricated.

In any case, I do need to leave work soon, and it would be nice to hear from some other people before that happens and

beg marquis to give me some more time again.

[Tammy]

I saw that RC liked his posts and points,

What do you think about RC/Glork team?

I need to look at RedCoyote's replace-in wall in full as I skimmed it at the shop this morning. I have a couple things to do and then I will get to it as I also didn't get a chance to look at his case on UT.

[Tammy]

Oh yeah

Marquis - Can you at least compromise and give 24 hours?

[RedCoyote]

@ETL: Darlin', you can't just replace in, call yourself town, and expect me to "reevaluate". Somehow I think UT may have also argued that he was town.

Let me give you a bit of perspective, because perhaps the disconnect is that you're assuming I've been here for a while. I replaced in, like, 36 hours prior to you. UT didn't even respond to anything I had to say about him. Hell, I haven't even received any feedback at all aside from lalala/KayP both saying they liked my case and voting with me, and GC saying he liked my case.

So, I don't know what to tell you. I know you can't speak for UT and I know you can't roll over and get lynched.

The best thing I would do, if I were in your shoes, is put together a case on someone else and try to sell me & others. This is what I did when replacing into the game.

@GC: I think you are making a serious mistake. I think this town is going to end up either lynching townTammy, or we're going to get a no lynch. Neither of these outcomes are good.

[Glork]

What the ass happened while I was at work today?

Going out to dinner soon but I'll get caught up when I get back.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

RC, you don't understand at all what I'm asking you to do. It certainly isn't "just take my word for it".

Mafia is a puzzle. Treat it as one. You have a set of reads based on things you have seen/observed. I am saying, "try out this piece this way and see how it looks." If you don't like it, then you don't like it and you can go back to rallying for my lynch. But at least try; consider that I have information about my role you don't, and perhaps I am telling you the truth. There is nothing stopping you from continuing on your previous path if it doesn't work for you.

But. At least. Try it out. Because I personally know that you are wrong, and I cannot change your mind. The only thing I can do is convince you to look at your own evidence in a different light.

I do not have enough information right now to "make a case" for someone else. I will be spending the rest of this day relying heavily on information provided by other players, including you. To expect me to be able to convince you to lynch someone else based on a case I come up with in 24 hours is unreasonable and doomed to failure. It's not good. Don't ask me to provide something that will be disgusting and dirty and full of problems. I wont do it. I'm sorry.

If I die tonight, what I will leave in my ISO should be concrete conclusions with a thread to where they came from. Not some forced case on someone because you asked me to.

[Tere]

I am not going to get to grips with this tonight, it is clear. I will go to bed, get up and try to skim read hard. Hopefully that's enough. xx Night scum and town xx

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lalala/KayP both saying they liked my case and voting with me

This is problematic and something that should be looked at.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I need a VC, but consider be voting for glork at the moment.

[Marquis]

Deadline will be extended by 24 hours due to the extenuating circumstances and multiple requests. This will be the final decision regarding extensions and no extension will be given in future days.

This and previous posts will be edited when I get computer+WiFi access (in about 30 minutes, most likely).

[Glork]

I need a VC, but consider be voting for glork at the moment.

lol

Think of what you will about Tammy's case against me but I assure you, it's an overblown pile of horse shit.

I see this game became the Tammy show in the last 24 hours.

Haven't read most of what she has posted and tbh I probably won't. But a couple of things.


To say "I don't need to do damage control, I'm town" is an incredibly naive way of thinking. It's also just wrong. Anybody who replaces into a slot that is the leading vote-getter, you have to do something to reduce that suspicion. Damage control is inherently necessary, regardless of your alignment. So this false conviction of "I don't need to do this because I'm town" isn't going to work.

Your "main problem" that I'm big trying to figure out the game is laughable. I can point to half a dozen instances of me trying to figure stuff out off the top of my head. The fact that I dropped the KayP line later in Day 1, asked Shadoxx questions to try to understand his perspective / line of thought (and later asked separate questions to try to figure him out further, even though he hadn't posted even ONCE since my initial inquiry), and even stepped back and asked Bella why she kept following others' leads (instead of just demanding heads or whatever) shows that clearly I am trying to figure shit out.


It looks like Tammy took a long look at the pressure on her, picked out the player with the most potential material to drag through the mud, and went all in. Not buying it.

Tammy replaced into a rather dire situation, of course she had to do SOMETHING, so she posted massive walls against me because like I said, I've probably contributed the most, so there's more potential material to paint me in the worst way possible. She literally said I wasn't trying to figure stuff out when I would argue that I've done more to seek other players' thinking and motivation than anybody else in this game.

If you want to consider voting for me, don't read a questionable player's OMGUS case against me. Read MY posts and decide for yourself. This is lazy and remarkably terrible, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

[Tammy]

For anyone discrediting my case against Glork as OMGUS, I'd like to point out that of the five players who were on my wagon on Tuesday, I'm strong town reading two of them: Frogger (who I think wrote the strongest, though wrong, case against my slot) and now Tere, am weaker town reading KayP, and have Gray Crayons as a who knows read.

Reducing my case against Glork as OMGUS is terrible and does not work within the context of what is actually happening in the game.

And Glork you can't say you've done more to see other player's thinking and motivation in this game while at the same time declaring that you're not going to read what I've posted since replacing in and just drum "Tammy's obviously scum" because that runs counter to actually seeing other player's thinking and motivation.

[Glork]

Nobody is accusing you of mass OMGUS. I have stated twice the the reason you picked me is because I had the most posts/material. You haven't done anything to begin to acknowledge or reply to this.

It looks like you're just hoping the lines have been drawn and you're just hoping to stick it out. You haven't said ONE WORD in response to my points against you or my defense that, yes I have indeed done plenty to try to assess players' thinking and alignments.

[Glork]

The gap here might be that my efforts haven't produced results, but that's because literally everyone I start to engage in dialogue with has replaced out of the game instead of responding to me. But that does NOT diminish my efforts to find scum, contrary to what you claim.

[Glork]

In fact, even the one thing that GC has an issue with (me starting D2 with a Kitty vote instead of Bella/Kay/Shadoxx) is refuted because my Kitty vote was

to get her to post so I could try to figure out her alignment

, and even while I had that vote on, I was asking Shadoxx questions

to try to figure it his alignment

and continuing to analyze/question Bella

to try to figure out her alignment

.

[Tammy]

To say "I don't need to do damage control, I'm town" is an incredibly naive way of thinking. It's also just wrong. Anybody who replaces into a slot that is the leading vote-getter, you have to do something to reduce that suspicion. Damage control is inherently necessary, regardless of your alignment. So this false conviction of "I don't need to do this because I'm town" isn't going to work.

Except in the way he was meaning it was "oh my gods pressure pressure I need to go fix something...let me do damage control." I don't see this being that way at all. I explained what was faulty about the scum reasoning for things I could, for things that people shouldn't really being seeing as scum because they're either surface tells or not alignment tells.

I'm town; I don't need to go oh gosh let me get this wagon off me. Does it suck that I replaced into a game where I'm already the designated mislynch? Yes. But frankly, I don't think I can do much about it. What I can do is point out what is faulty/wrong, and try to get as much content out there for tomorrow.

I feel like with the way this game is going I'm one of the few that is capable of doing that.

Your "main problem" that I'm big trying to figure out the game is laughable. I can point to half a dozen instances of me trying to figure stuff out off the top of my head. The fact that I dropped the KayP line later in Day 1, asked Shadoxx questions to try to understand his perspective / line of thought (and later asked separate questions to try to figure him out further, even though he hadn't posted even ONCE since my initial inquiry), and even stepped back and asked Bella why she kept following others' leads (instead of just demanding heads or whatever) shows that clearly I am trying to figure shit out.

Oh I don't deny that you've done these things. It's why I said that you only "look" like you're trying to figure out the game. I remember reading once that scum!glork is more protown than most other town players. I wouldn't expect someone of your experience and talent to bumble about dropping scum tells left and right. But what I do expect from town you is a bit deeper of analysis of the game. You're giving the illusion of solving the game, but you don't actually feel like you are solving the game.

It looks like Tammy took a long look at the pressure on her, picked out the player with the most potential material to drag through the mud, and went all in. Not buying it.

I'm going to give this a long laugh. I took a look at the pressure on my slot and decided to attack the strongest player in the game with the loudest voice who ran through a bibob lynch yesterday due to omgus and being able to outcase/out attack others, and a scum me thought that would fly against a town you? I don't think you actually believe this.

I'd also like to point you to his reaction to my suspicion on him. I'd have probably seen his point if he said I was scum who was trying to look town by attacking a strong innocent player because it would make me look town for it, but instead he pulls the "I'm the easiest person to fling mud on" which is incredibly inaccurate. Pretty much anyone else would be easier to fling mud at than him.

Now I get having a bad game, being rusty, or just being wrong, but I don't think his game has degraded to the point of that he's not evaluating the gam, and if he is just having a bad game and feels off then I exoect someone like him to acknowledge that because at the foundation of it all he'd still want to win the game.

I get that most of you are town reading him for some reason, and I'll probably still be the lynch today or tomorrow, and that's fine, but when I'm gone please don't forget what I've said. I'm rarely ever this certain about a scum read, and I don't think I've ever come this close to a 1v1 before, which should tell you something.

He's not looking at the game the way he should be if he's town.

Third - you would absolutely NOT be who I would cozy up to or try to get on my side as scum. That would be glork, who a scum me would be working to get on my side if at all possible because I consider him the strongest player here.

But please please please lynch glork tomorrow. Please.

You would also have to rectify the fact that a scum!Tammy came into a game with a town!frogger playing with his brother town!Glork and think that I would have some way to get you on my side over Glork. I can't imagine how in the seven hells I would think a scum me could break up that pair. Town me knows your going to vote me over your brother, there was a super slim chance that you'd actually recognize scum in your brother Glork instead of me, and yet I went after it anyway. I'm not stupid as scum, this is something I'd have known would never work in a million years as scum, and yet you think I did it anyway. (I'm not saying you'd just hand your brother the game or not play to your win con but it's pretty much human nature that you'd prefer to think your family or people you really like are not the ones lying to you. It's one of the things I was referring to in my opening post about my blind spot lately in games because I keep playing with friends.)

This is not a mindset I could plausibly have.

I said you made a cogent case on bella, not that it was right. One of the things that cases do is help to give the mindset of the case maker. Yours was well thought out, it enforced the town read that I had been building on you. It was wrong, and is filled with things that are not scum tells, in many instances are personality tells, and if the experienced people in this game were actually reading this game a bit deeper, I wouldn't be the only one telling you some of these things, and Glork definitely would be if he were town. He's not.
.

You're right; I haven't addressed that or mused on how I think I would plausibly treat you if I were scum here.

[Glork]

You should probably read any of my games in the last two years. I stopped tryharding ages ago, and have consistently been lynchbait since the because I'm still held to the expectations of my double-Paragon glory days.

[Glork]

Like, if I had gotten answers to ANY of the questions I'd asked, you'd get to see the full fruit of my labors. But to say I'm only "looking like" I'm trying to analyze because half the game replaced out today and I couldn't follow up on any of this is, quite frankly, something I wouldn't expect you to say or truly believe if you were town.

[Tammy]

The gap here might be that my efforts haven't produced results, but that's because literally everyone I start to engage in dialogue with has replaced out of the game instead of responding to me. But that does NOT diminish my efforts to find scum, contrary to what you claim.

I don't care about you producing results or being wrong, I care that it doesn't feel like you are analyzing the game to the point I know you can and are just surface reading. Yes, you are doing things but it doesn't feel like you're doing things to advance a town win con.

I get not being objective about a case on you, but I feel like if you actually read what I've written since replacing in you'd see that I am trying to figure the game out, and am trying to figure you out. I have a scum read on you, and I don't think my reasons are horseshit at all, but I have asked anyone who has a town read on you to please talk to me about it and what they see wrong with my case. Not one person has. I don't want to have a scum read on you if you're town. And I don't mind being wrong if I am. I want to figure it out if I am wrong as I've said my scum read on you is coloring my whole view of this game, and if I'm wrong then everything is wrong.

You're trying to claim my dire situation necessitated that I attack you in an attempt to not get lynched even though I'm the day's lynch. When that makes no sense at all. It makes more sense for me to attack anyone but you.

pedit: I've already said I was going to look.
pedit2: heh, that's actually the same exact reasoning I suspected ces in the recent team mafia game. People who are good at this game and good as scum tend to surface scum hunt when scum and push stuff that is scummy but not actually scum. I've seen you be able to cut through the surface and recognize that things that look surface scummy don't always come from scum, and there are things that I think a town you would have picked up on as newb tells, so you look like you're pushing "scummy" things and going after easy stuff without thinking about whether or not it comes from scum. (I get with the bella thing that I have the benefit of having her role pm, but I think some of her behaviors - the ones that I've pointed out - were clearly personality/newb tells and it didn't look like you were considering that.)

And it's not today's posts that bothered me pre-replace in. If you'd notice in my case on you, your day two posts were the ones that gave me pause, and I've been basing most of my suspicion on your day one play.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

HI GLORK. Forget Tammy for a second.

Where do you stand on the rest of the players and why?

[Glork]

What do you think of the reasons I came to label Frogger and GC town from back on Day One?