Micro 488: Forest Fire - Endgame

[Soft-spoken]

wow i suk... how do you misclick the quote button on an entirely different post? no wonder i never make plat tier in league

[sangres]

Well, at least on my end, I'm waffling pretty hard between them. Like, I acknowledge that pieguyn has some town posts (I believe I even pointed a couple of them out) but the issues remain.

Anyway, if no objections, I'm going to hammer since we can just keep talking tomorrow.

So, again: why are you townreading Quilford? What are the reasons you are reading him as town?

[Quilford]

Regfan's probably a bit anxious about the fact that he also spectacularly failed to read me in Team Mafia until I started obvtowning lol

[Quilford]

*to read me correctly

[Quilford]

Hey sangres, now that you're scumreading me would it be reasonable to expect that you would be beginning to look at my meta? Especially since both of you have a sum total of peanuts' worth of experience with my scum play?

[Quilford]

Would also think this would be a big thing for Regfan too, considering his excuse for setting aside my painfully painfully obvious scum meta in Team Mafia was that I would have upped my game for the occasion.

Here's a tip. If I'm posting with anything other than the level of frequency, interest and warmth of a dead penguin, I'm probably town.

[sangres]

Hey sangres, now that you're scumreading me would it be reasonable to expect that you would be beginning to look at my meta? Especially since both of you have a sum total of peanuts' worth of experience with my scum play?

I've looked at your meta as much as I'm probably going to; don't really care much for meta that isn't experiential.

Are you going to address my points or no, not feeling that?

[Quilford]

I've looked at your meta as much as I'm probably going to

Ah. Not at all?

Hey sangres, now that you're scumreading me would it be reasonable to expect that you would be beginning to look at my meta? Especially since both of you have a sum total of peanuts' worth of experience with my scum play?

Are you going to address my points or no, not feeling that?

I am yes, just not going to do it *on my phone*

[Quilford]

I don't like this push. This push is essentially Quilford saying "oh, I find the emotional responses really, really town but there's this *one point* I disagree with and so I don't think Pie is town".

1. No, wrong, and your shitty paraphrasing begs the question. "so I don't think Pie is town" is not at all what I said.
2. Don't tell me you, as town, have never had a niggling doubt on a player that has stopped you from being comfortable with your townread on them.

It feels like Quilford is just keeping his options open, especially since its just one single point he's concerned about and he doesn't really make any real effort to address it on his own (he prods pieguy about it a little bit, but doesn't make a conclusion or attempt to make one based on her response).

Perhaps that might indicate to you that I didn't find her response conclusive.

[Quilford]

#367 was pretty underwhelming as an assessment of the first 5 pages. I really don't like how he responds to sangres' question, it wasn't even directed at him. Padded out by a response to a joke by molla and a response to a post of mine that's already been thoroughly discussed, the whole thing reads like scum trying to look busy. There's not any actual scumhunting. Also don't like how he says he'll read pages 6-15 and then drops that as well, think he's afraid of people cottoning on if he puts out even more fluff. Last thing is that the abrupt change of tone in #410 is also a bit weird, oh and the fact that he hasn't explained any of his townreads and hasn't declared any scumreads at all.

I don't like this case. This case has essentially been Quilford attacking S-S for... not writing that much (in particular, the "underwhelming catchup + not catching up on pages 6-15 attacks are particularly egregious) and the rest of it (change of tone, answered a question not for him) is just padding. One of the things that very much stood out to me in his ISO is that he flirted with most Yuriko alternatives (S-S, pie, us, don't think he went after muffin but I could see him avoiding that one) but didn't actually bring attention to Yuriko even though that's where he should have been brought after his S-S push became less and less likely.

1. Not writing that much was a scumtell in context. It's certainly where the scumreads on Yuriko started from.
2. Answering a question not for you is a great way to pad an already thin post out.
3. The change of tone read as a way to look engaged in the game directly after saying he wasn't going to read nine entire pages of it.
4. You didn't chase my case up at the time. You didn't even bother to mention it, which is odd considering one of your strong-town reads agreed with it. For you to do that now smacks of opportunism.
5. The problems with Yuriko's posting were and are obvious. I was looking in other directions.

[Quilford]

I think the slip is eminently fakeable (and am definitely going to look into it more when I'm not on my phone)

I didn't like him brushing off the townslip in the way he did, either, and I don't like the "I'm going to look into it more when I'm not on my phone" bit because why does he have to look into a townslip? Either it was real or it was fake, looking at it with a bigger screen doesn't affect that at all.

This is hilariously bad. Obviously being on mobile carries a bunch of connotations about what one is physically doing at the moment (e.g. being on a bus), on top of all the usability issues that make jumping around in a thread on a fifteen year old forum interface

on mobile

painfully hard to do (including but not limited to having to read tiny text).

[YurikoJasmine]

No one believes me? I guess I need to read super fast and give my reads before I die today.

[YurikoJasmine]

I wanted to say "why did you ask me to claim if you're not going to believe me anyway" but I realized it's just a stupid question.

vote: BBM

[Gold Saucer]

No one believes me? I guess I need to read super fast and give my reads before I die today.

You've not exactly put yourself in a position to be believed

The motivation for scum-Yuriko to draw out town-bbmolla is obvious and I won't go into it

I am

slightly

paranoid that, in this particular setup, now that I've thought about it a little, there IS potential scum motivation for scum-bbmolla to CC town-yuriko to ensure we LYNCH the firefighter vs having to prime them, and that's in the certainty on their end that they get to have their LyLo exactly when they think they will - otherwise they have no idea who town-yuriko has protected from night to night unless they waste N2 detonating only her, which is one less kill than they get to use if they instead get the firefighter lynched and can just spam prime on whoever the rest of the game.

They also have to definitively give up one of their members to do it, which is obviously a risky proposition.

I don't think it's a big enough concern for me to change my course of action and worse case scenario we go into D3 6-1; best case scenario this crackpot hypothesis is wrong and we go into D2 7-1

-b

[YurikoJasmine]

No one believes me? I guess I need to read super fast and give my reads before I die today.

You've not exactly put yourself in a position to be believed

The motivation for scum-Yuriko to draw out town-bbmolla is obvious and I won't go into it

I am

slightly

paranoid that, in this particular setup, now that I've thought about it a little, there IS potential scum motivation for scum-bbmolla to CC town-yuriko to ensure we LYNCH the firefighter vs having to prime them, and that's in the certainty on their end that they get to have their LyLo exactly when they think they will - otherwise they have no idea who town-yuriko has protected from night to night unless they waste N2 detonating only her, which is one less kill than they get to use if they instead get the firefighter lynched and can just spam prime on whoever the rest of the game.

They also have to definitively give up one of their members to do it, which is obviously a risky proposition.

I don't think it's a big enough concern for me to change my course of action and worse case scenario we go into D3 6-1; best case scenario this crackpot hypothesis is wrong and we go into D2 7-1

-b

I don't understand the whole of this but it sounds like town is pretty much likely to win the game (with or without the firefighter)
Well in that case even if I die today we can still win this right?

[Gold Saucer]

for certain values of "we", sure

-b

[Quilford]

I don't understand the whole of this but it sounds like town is pretty much likely to win the game (with or without the firefighter)
Well in that case even if I die today we can still win this right?

*eyebrow*

[Quilford]

Your reads would be much appreciated tho Yuriko

[sangres]

1. No, wrong, and your shitty paraphrasing begs the question. "so I don't think Pie is town" is not at all what I said.

Your position on Pie gave you an avenue to attack her/jump on her wagon later, which was the main concern.

[sangres]

Perhaps that might indicate to you that I didn't find her response conclusive.

So where do you stand on that point now?

[sangres]

1. Not writing that much was a scumtell in context. It's certainly where the scumreads on Yuriko started from.

How does the context make that any more of a scumtell than it would normally?

[sangres]

2. Answering a question not for you is a great way to pad an already thin post out.

This is a weak post.

[sangres]

Point*.

[sangres]

3. The change of tone read as a way to look engaged in the game directly after saying he wasn't going to read nine entire pages of it.

I understand the general point is that he was acting like he was passionate to be engaged or whatever but there's not really any sort of evidence in thread that points to this being the case.

[sangres]

4. You didn't chase my case up at the time. You didn't even bother to mention it, which is odd considering one of your strong-town reads agreed with it. For you to do that now smacks of opportunism.

I was pursuing a different suspect at the time. I thought your case at the time was bad but well-intentioned; I'm currently pursuing alternatives to that theory.