ffery wrote:This game, you push for details - what specific post made me have thought X about a player. In one instance, I pulled up an ISO and did a somewhat intentionally sketchy job of backing up my generalities with some specifics. I was surprised you didn't dig into that more deeply.
I wouldn't mind seeing this at some other time; I doubt it will be pertinent for me to read you at this point and I'm sure it won't be pertinent for you to read me since you've exposed your motivation about it.
I really do need to go to bed now but I think what I'm ultimately getting out of that is that my scum/townhunting style is a lot less formulaic than yours is / than you think mine is / should be.
@pie I'd like to engage with you about the Quilford post you just made tomorrow because I've not really been reading Quilford except as a musical chairs read compared to everyone else since early day 1 and this is a good primer to get into it.
GS and S-S are my strongest town reads. I haven't had any problem with sangres's posts on the past few pages but I want Nacho to explain where he was coming from first before I say exactly why I think this is the case.
GB and RBD I think are also town.
I think Quil is the most likely to be scum just via POE, but I really do not see his recent play coming from scum at all. I'd really like if someone could tell me if I'm just insane or if what I'm pointing out here actually makes sense since I'm not sure when I'll have a good chance to reread in-depth or where I should look next.
In post 1352, Gold Saucer wrote:@pie I'd like to engage with you about the Quilford post you just made tomorrow because I've not really been reading Quilford except as a musical chairs read compared to everyone else since early day 1 and this is a good primer to get into it.
got it. I likely won't be around until the evening, though.
ffery wrote:This game, you push for details - what specific post made me have thought X about a player. In one instance, I pulled up an ISO and did a somewhat intentionally sketchy job of backing up my generalities with some specifics. I was surprised you didn't dig into that more deeply.
I wouldn't mind seeing this at some other time; I doubt it will be pertinent for me to read you at this point and I'm sure it won't be pertinent for you to read me since you've exposed your motivation about it.
I really do need to go to bed now but I think what I'm ultimately getting out of that is that my scum/townhunting style is a lot less formulaic than yours is / than you think mine is / should be.
My tone, is, as you have pointed out, not.
-b
I don't think you're getting the right things out of it, but that could be the sangria getting in the way. I don't think my methods of forming reads are formulaic at all. I've been surprised many times when someone said they look for "X" in my towngame, when "X" is something that I did or articulated once, in some game from a year and a half ago and never before or since.
You're responding to Tammy but I assume that was meant for me.
I remember reading that post but I think you can plainly see I never commented on it at all - I didn't say anything like "yep that looks good" and I think you're holding me to an unreasonable standard that I should have dug into it - I can think of any number of reasons I might not have done that, ranging from simply forgetting to / skimming it / running out of time / found other more pertinent things to talk about
Otherwise I simply don't think you're being fair. You should have pinged me about it if you wanted my attention.
You're responding to Tammy but I assume that was meant for me.
I remember reading that post but I think you can plainly see I never commented on it at all - I didn't say anything like "yep that looks good" and I think you're holding me to an unreasonable standard that I should have dug into it - I can think of any number of reasons I might not have done that, ranging from simply forgetting to / skimming it / running out of time / found other more pertinent things to talk about
Otherwise I simply don't think you're being fair. You should have pinged me about it if you wanted my attention.
-b
I have stared at this post for several minutes trying to see this as an issue of fairness.
And then I laughed. I think I see what makes my style of play ambiguous to you sometimes.
Participation changes people's behaviors that I'm trying to observe. It also changes how I perceive the behaviors because I'm part of them. Sometimes in mafia I want to make things happen. Sometimes I want to see how things unfold without jostling too much.
I don't expect scum to make a major misstep, and I do expect the last scum to he hard to find. The bar is high, not because "this is what we expect of bork". It's high because holy shit I can find decent reasons to think nearly everyone is town.
also, the read itself wasn't sketchy. the problem with my post was that the specifics didn't line up very well to the generalities I'd laid out earlier. Which was a problem with my generalities. I expected some grilling and I left an opening for that to happen rather than sew it all up tight in the one post.
Looks like this thread exploded while I was at work -- I skimmed sections of it between jobs at work and threw Empire some of my thoughts in bathroom breaks but I do need to go over all and do a proper read through, won't be tonight, heading out soon and my times going to be eaten up elsewhere so I'll get around to this tomorrow night.
Quilford if you're town stop self-voting and instead
In post 1039, sangres wrote:When you have a weak partner in a playerlist where getting mislynches is hard, you need good credibility to force through the mislynches you need since you can't rely on town error.
How does this factor into your Quilford read, then?
Based on the scumgames that I've read from Quilford, I don't think he's the type of player to think much in a scum game beyond "survive".
In post 1276, Gold Saucer wrote:The only person you could challenge to be more involved in the game is me. I'm the one who's bern busy. Borks been here trying to figure out the game. If you were town, you wouldn't be ignoring that.
How have I ignored that Bork's been trying to figure out the game? I'm not pretending that he's been sitting here the entire game doing nothing and I haven't said that your slot was scummy or bullshitting or useless. I do want to see more from both of you because I feel like your voices aren't as front and center in the fray as they could be.
And honestly, I don't know whether that belief is because I haven't read the game closely enough or you guys have been slipping into the background a bit. Don't care. I don't have as good of a grasp as I should on your perception of the game state, and the way I'm going to do that is by prodding.
In post 1276, Gold Saucer wrote:But you're doing the same exact thing you did in hard boiled. You thought I was lynchsble then so you completely overlooked my toe tells and why I was town because you thought you'd be able to lynch me in that player list, and here you suddenly can't see where Bork's been super town and you're ignoring what you should not be for why I'm town.
I don't think your slot has been so untouchably town where me pushing you to feel more confident in reading your slot us somehow unacceptable. If the "super obv town" you're referring to is prodding and pushing and trying to figure out the game, all players alive minus Quilford and BBMolla have showed a pretty solid scumhunting effort, but doesn't make them untouchable.
The only similarity to my play this game and my play in hard boiled is that I confronted you in both. The obvious difference that you're ignoring for some reason is that in hard boiled, I called you scum for bullshit reasons and tried to mislynch you. In this game, I'm saying I have a town read on you but want to get more comfortable with my read on you by going through your views on the game with you. But instead of addressing my concerns or putting down analysis, you're accusing me of ignoring everything you've ever done in this game, which is a bit dramatic.
In post 1276, Gold Saucer wrote:But hey it's okay! If you need bucket go for it, but you better work extra fucking hard in the coming days to look town because I'll be a confirmed fucking town voice pointing out your bullshit and maybe just maybe region will get over that 100% inexplicable town read on your slot.
And, as I've said a couple times already and will probably continue to say far into the future, I'm still townreading you. I want to see more from you. I want to see more from Bork.
From Bork's end, I want to see why he has trepidations with Regfan's play. I want to understand his position on Pieguyn because he seems to share a perspective with me re: that emotional town tell thing and I want to understand why he's town town town.
From yours, I know zero of your reads except Regfan town. I haven't seen you make a concerted effort in actually gamesolving. I want you in the game thread not only to quiet my own concerns, but also to help me form a clearer picture of the game.
In post 1274, Soft-spoken wrote:imo it looks like gold saucer is offended that riding on town-read laurels wont cut it
Yeah, you're righ congratulations!
Nacho is being opportunistic as fuck.
The argument is that I'm riding on Regfan's coattails in order to secure a mislynch on you is ridiculous. First of all, Regfan's argument in that he was paranoid of Bork because Bork played optimally is a shitty argument and very obviously isn't going anywhere. Secondly, we still would have a viable mislynch in Quilford that we would most definitely need and wouldn't be so confident in getting that we wouldn't do things that could get us in trouble while mislynching him until we mislynched him. Thirdly, do you
really
think that this is the playerlist to mislynch you in? And that this is a game where mislynching you would be an idea that's not completely stupid?
In post 1291, Gold Saucer wrote:And hey I get regfan being somewhat paranoid, thigh he really shouldn't be, but he doesn't have experience with Bork so needing me to post to feel better about our slot makes sense. It shouldn't be coming from you, not in the way it has.
Can we just do this? I think I'll be 9000% more useful once you guys don't have to worry about my alignment and I don't have to worry about you guys worrying about my alignment.
And my reads will come soon, I just was checking MS over lunch and saw shenanigans happening here
This seems really really stupid and out of the blue. Why decide to self-vote while Tammy and I were arguing? Clearly momentum is shifting away from you or everyone wouldn't be talking about second suspects.
my initial inkling was what you said (that you weren't scum reading her), but I wanted to actually sit down and read it first because Tammy appeared to feel really really strongly you were scum.
ftr, now that you've said as much, I can say I don't mind you poking at her for this reason - I disagree you were trying to lynch them or push them as scum. so eh
