In post 2174, Fro99er wrote:
Tell me where it was convenient for me to move from scum to town on Vezok, from scum to town on skybird, from unsure to scum on Constantine, town to unsure on fuzzy, and unsure to town on RR? I guess you are forming this opinion based off the Replaced In claim.
I mean. I'm not keeping tabs on all of your read changes. Why would I care to. But assuming those changes are all true, they don't particularly strike me as inconvenient? I guess that would depend on the reason you changed your mind and everything that was going on. Or if you're scum and just shifted your read because it was convenient for you. That's...kinda how it works? Those changes in your reads there seem kinda arbitrary at least in comparison to someone claiming that they think they can clear you as town based on flavor.
In post 2174, Fro99er wrote:
I mean, you check in every few days, try to catch up, clearly have been missing parts of the game (as you've shown twice since you've been here today alone), and are forming your reads based off catch-up posts and partial information due to your attempted catch ups. Yet you criticize sky for coasting when almost every post of theirs has had content either through analysis or questioning, but you are the one coasting on your miller/double vote claim trying to make a catch up every few days.
You really think I expect to coast anywhere close endgame on a miller claim? That doesn't even make sense.
I feel adequately caught up. Just because I wasn't aware of every intricacy of a single post you made a while ago about niccage doesn't mean I'm not.
Also, skybird and I are different people and I'm assuming we have different levels of things going on. When I'm here and can post that's when the readable content comes out. The prod dodges and the like should be mostly null, and are certainly not comparable between two different players.
You know, this whole interaction feels off in a lot of ways. Like, why did that particular hypocrisy you just called me out on only seem to creep up now? Like, have I not been scum reading skybird the majority of the game? And, despite me scum reading your slot, you've hardly mentioned me this game. And only until now when I start actually taking some time to make a push to feel you out, now you're a grapes expert and start slinging dirt on me...for 'lurking' no less.
Yes, I've hardly interacted with you all game, but you just now interacted with me so I responded. It actually made me pay attention to you because, like Replaced In, I've had a hard time reading your catch-up walls. I do a lot better with conversational interactions than I do with someone who pops in every two or three days and posts a huge wall of text.
Yes, you have been scumreading Skybird all game, but the most recent reason was for coasitng, which I pointed out Sky is absolutely NOT coasting. So I guess that particular hypocrisy just popped up because once again you finally checked in again after a couple days, your catch up post was underwhelming, and then yet you called out someone for coasting in a catch-up post of yours.
Do I expect you to coast on a miller claim? I'm not sure. I think it makes more sense for scum to coast on a miller claim than town, because town should still be actively engaged in trying to find scum. I don't
think
you are fakeclaiming miller, but I'm not sure.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
I'VE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO SKYBIRD! I've seen how his read evolved on Beer, I've seen how his read evolved on me (he took my side on the Sonic/me 1v1), I've seen how he's made some good points about Constantine. He's given speculation on the double voting situation poitning out now that farside has a vote the double vote and two stumps don't balance any more (which will bring me to a point about your double vote).
You are the one who is being blind to Skybird!
You criticize me for not engaging you, but you admit yourself you didn't keep tabs on my reads,
and you don't care to
(where's the town mindset in that?). You scum read me for not changing my reads (except when convenient...yet I've pointed out several reads changing that didn't come at convenient times, yet you seem to think they weren't inconvenint,
but you don't even go look
and instead want to make a blanket assumption they don't seem inconvenient), but you haven't changed your reads on myself or Sky all game.
Back to that double vote point...your double vote power is more scummy than vezok's. At least with your double vote, you have the option of bussing and simultaneously mislynching as scum, whereas Vezok can double vote only the same person, making it much less likely he's scum because bussing would be very detrimental to scum in that situation. Given that Farside is no longer a stump, there is now 17 players (9 to lynch), but 18 eligible votes. Your split vote makes it so that there still really is only 17 possible votes that could go on a single player (since your other vote cannot go on the same person twice), keeping the game's voting balance.
Also, your sequence on Beer was really poor. Especially the last two posts. Oh, I woke up. Better catch up. Nah, hammer (but call for a back up hammer just in case). Also you "recalled a town read" on Beer, but
did you actually go back through and ISO Beer/Sonic to confirm to yourself it was TvT?
Doesn't look like it. How did their interaction "feel" TvT?
Spoiler: Grapes on Beer (now I want wine)
In post 1071, grapes wrote:cage do you honestly expect beer to get enough support in time?
In post 1073, NicCage wrote:Is it that impossible? There's three days left. That's like 7 days in dog years.
I mean, initial trolling aside, has the beer slot ever done anything of value?
Uhm. I guess anything is possible. But the threads been open for 10 days and we haven't even got something to L1 yet. And this isn't me trying to narrow our lynch pool down for this phase, this is me just trying to bring you and everyone else back to reality.
I'd switch there to get a lynch today I suppose because that slot is one of the many just lurking out the deadline. Though I recall a townread there so I'm kinda torn. The one thing watering it down is although the wall war they had with sonic felt tvt, semantics did pop up a lot on both sides. Maybe another iso there just to see if it was mostly misreps or misunderstandings.
hated isn't a role we should be really keeping around too long anyway - but someone else should vote after this in the off chance it's a fakeclaim
i hope to christ we won't be deadline lynching like this anymore after today
All I see is general laziness from you, and coasting. Once you mention you didn't care to look up my reads, another time you didn't bother to go look up whether my changes in reads were convinient or not, and a third time you didn't actually follow up on an ISO you said you would to ensure Sonic v Beer was TvT, then you hammer beer after no catch up after being away for a good while. You're being sloppy and lazy at best, and scummy at worst.
Oh, and finally, I see you want to lynch 3 people and maybe a 4th. Where have I heard that before (this isn't a scum point against you, simply me pointing out irony)?
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
In post 2179, grapes wrote:So my catch up walls are boring to read and when I make it short and sweet it's underwhelming.
Length doesn't matter. Quality matters. Your catch up amounted to
"Skybird is coasting"
"Frog how many scum reads do you have"
"Maxwell feels off"
"Ricastle is probably town"
"Bins is probably town but creepy bear"
No analysis whatsoever after a long time of not posting. Had there been good analysis in a short concise post your catch up would have been fine. You are trying to catch me on some technicality that isn't true.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
I've made some changes to the Alliance and Fusion rules in an effort to make interactions a bit clearer.
For those still confused:
Spoiler: Fusion and Alliances, how do they work?:
1. Each Climax phase, you may target another player to Ally or Fuse with. This ability work independent of all other Climax actions--it can not be blocked, tracked, etc. unless otherwise explicitly stated.
2. At the end of each Climax Phase, living players who targeted each other will be granted an Exposition-Chat only neighborhood for the following Episode.
3. Most roles will gain access to abilities depending on if they are in an alliance or a fusion. The abilities you gain will always be written as a part of your role; there are no hidden abilities that are gained through alliances an fusions.
4. So long as you begin the Episode in an alliance or a fusion, you will have access to the abilities it provides you, if any. If your allied or fused partner is lynched or killed, you will still be able to access these abilities.
5. At the end of each Climax phase, Alliances and Fusions end--this means that unless you successfully ally or fuse again, you will lose access to any abilities gained.
6. During Season Finales, each player may be in larger alliances/fusions. During the Climax phase before a Season Finale, you may submit up to two targets for Fusion and/or Alliance, although no alliance or fusion may have more than 3 members this way.
In post 2180, Fro99er wrote:I'VE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO SKYBIRD! I've seen how his read evolved on Beer, I've seen how his read evolved on me (he took my side on the Sonic/me 1v1), I've seen how he's made some good points about Constantine. He's given speculation on the double voting situation poitning out now that farside has a vote the double vote and two stumps don't balance any more (which will bring me to a point about your double vote).
I disagree. The evolution of the read there didn't really feel completely unfakable to me. It mostly felt unnatural. Because if you recall it started out as a chainsaw of vezok. Which, is a red flag already. That's association without flips. I think the town thought process there should of been first, read the slots individual of each other, then look at the interactions and take in as much info as you can. Not default to one of them being scum automatically, just because the other thinks that one is scum. Make sense?
I don't get how town would not first default to a tvt alliance and moreover somehow reverse both of their reads in the span of a dayphase.
In post 2180, Fro99er wrote:
You criticize me for not engaging you, but you admit yourself you didn't keep tabs on my reads,
and you don't care to
(where's the town mindset in that?). You scum read me for not changing my reads (except when convenient...yet I've pointed out several reads changing that didn't come at convenient times, yet you seem to think they weren't inconvenint,
but you don't even go look
and instead want to make a blanket assumption they don't seem inconvenient), but you haven't changed your reads on myself or Sky all game.
No, engaging is a two way street. So I wouldn't and haven't criticized you about that. It's just irking me that you evidently have been paying attention to me but haven't really brought me up until now.
And why is that bad if I haven't seen a reason to change them?
In post 2180, Fro99er wrote:
Back to that double vote point...your double vote power is more scummy than vezok's. At least with your double vote, you have the option of bussing and simultaneously mislynching as scum, whereas Vezok can double vote only the same person, making it much less likely he's scum because bussing would be very detrimental to scum in that situation. Given that Farside is no longer a stump, there is now 17 players (9 to lynch), but 18 eligible votes. Your split vote makes it so that there still really is only 17 possible votes that could go on a single player (since your other vote cannot go on the same person twice), keeping the game's voting balance.
Again, I don't really think this is all that strong a point for me scum. And it doesn't really look like you thought this point all the way through anyway. You just kinda listed a few(and admittedly sly) ways that my role
could
be used if it were a scum role. And then go on to it keeps the games voting balance. Which, isn't really even a thing? Now, this is obviously biased because I know my role is a town role but I think for all intents and purposes my votes are more or less balanced the same as someone with just one vote anyway because the only thing that really matters at the end of the day is wagon dynamics. And I can only be on one wagon.
In post 2180, Fro99er wrote:
Also, your sequence on Beer was really poor. Especially the last two posts. Oh, I woke up. Better catch up. Nah, hammer (but call for a back up hammer just in case). Also you "recalled a town read" on Beer, but
did you actually go back through and ISO Beer/Sonic to confirm to yourself it was TvT?
Doesn't look like it. How did their interaction "feel" TvT?
What's my scum motivation for hammering a townread 2 hours until deadline? I could of just lurked. I mean yea chances are people were around and someone was gonna hammer but I wanted to be sure we got a lynch.
And I didn't realize laziness was a scumtell either. :/
I think we're talking past each other at this point because we haven't interacted and it's now come to a head.
We both think we're catching each other in petty points and contradictions and this isn't helping town one bit.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
So, during an Episode 3 climax, that's when we can submit two names instead of one, and if we're successful, we can have up to a 3 person alliance during the Season Finale, aka Episode 4?
Anyways, grapes
In post 2108, MaxwellPuckett wrote:
Constantine, Fro99er, Replace In. These are nice lynch targets. If you want my opinion on something else feel free to ask, I do have a lot of opinions but a lot of them are 'this person has done something i don't like and also they are probably town', and those are just so disheartening I don't want to list them
Are you satisfied now? I can see why you wouldn't have seen this, it was from a larger post, but whatever.
To add, Replace In had really done nothing to make me reconsider, until they said their Lion claim cleared Fro99er. This seems kind of a ridiculous strategy as scum trying to clear scum, that falls apart as soon as one of them is lynched, so I really doubt they're both scum. Replace In is higher on the lynch-branch than Fro99er, anyways, whose play has picked up since leaving the hydra. Meanwhile, Replace In's has kind of stagnated.
Fro99er: Grapes' Beer vote doesn't say anything, it was a vote anyone who was online at the time would have made.
One man's trash talk is another man's treasure talk.
I'm V/LA for a week sitewide - on holidays, and I won't have access. Titus is more involved in the game than I am right now, so she can handle stuff.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
In post 2181, Fro99er wrote:No analysis whatsoever after a long time of not posting. Had there been good analysis in a short concise post your catch up would have been fine. You are trying to catch me on some technicality that isn't true.
That wasn't me trying to catch you on a technicality. That's me just being mad because the best way I know how to play this game is glazed over by a good majority of people here. And my attempt at trying to try something different, like a hit the thread quick and run approach hasn't been taken kindly to either..
In post 2166, Skybird wrote:Grapes, why do you feel I am coasting? I am putting out content, not as much as others, but it is there. If you have a specific question you'd like to ask me, please go ahead.
I just feel really underwhelmed with your one or two posts a day that you do post. An original opinion is sorta a rarity from you, particularly this phase.
Outside of those rare moments it's either questions, which don't feel like you particularly care the answer to, not something really game related, or something related to the hermit slot in some form or another.
Day 1 I felt you were more volatile and actually trying to figure things out. Mostly referring to your interacts with vezok in trying to discern what was actually happening in their private topic, but now in retrospect that whole debacle was in it's entirety something really easy to focus in on anyway. Your falling off the radar in conjunction with your plop onto the hermit wagon makes everything you've done this phase just feel kinda phoned in.
I'm a she btw.
I can't help it if you feel underwhelmed by my posts. I am looking at things and one of those things is the fact that the double voters are no longer balanced by two non-voters. On D1 I voiced my concern that everyone automatically assumed double voter was town. (And there you are, scum reading me.) Beyond that, your concerns are you don't like that I don't have "original content", you don't like my questions, and you think I've "plopped" on to the hermit wagon.
If I don't have something to say, I'm not going to post. You may not feel like it's original content but that's your perception. I'm not always going to share where I'm going with my questions because I have something in mind and I'm looking at the person's response to see if the response looks town or scummy. I'm also looking to see if the person does respond to my questions because that also tells me something. As for plopping on the hermit wagon, I've been thinking about that for a while now. I had Bins as a nullscum lean and Constantine really hasn't done anything to disspell that. I believe I just made that vote today and I listed my reasons for thinking the slot is scum.
: I'm not sure how I feel about your claim. What was the reason for claiming when you did?
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
In post 2188, Skybird wrote:On D1 I voiced my concern that everyone automatically assumed double voter was town. (And there you are, scum reading me.)
Yes.
Grapes-scum cackled to his scum buddies in the mafia topic about how naive this town was, as townie after townie after
townie
began to write him off as town for being a double-voter. When suddenly skybird wooshed in and said "wait a minute, we should NOT assume the double voters are town!"
Grapes-scum howled in anger and vowed swift vengeance against the bird, quickly fabricating a scum case to get her lynched and silence this enormous threat to himself and his scum team.
-
I mean
really
?
I even specifically said myself day 1 that my role doesn't confirm anything. And to my knowledge not really that many people are town reading me, much less because of my claim so.
Book of Constantine (Protestant) 214: 112 - God hates you
Book of Constantine (Catholic) 214:112 - God doesn't like you
Book of Constantine (Orthodox) 214:112 - God tolerates you
Alright, I suppose I had better get this out in the clear before the topic totally transitions, because I don't think it's been legitimately conveyed up to this point.
I
do
regret my shot, massively. And I recognise that I am entirely responsible for it. It was an objectively bad move, which is why I'm as angry as anyone else about it. However, coming from a different viewpoint, my reaction was a lot more openly self-serving and I accept that fully. When I feel an action I took was justified to an extent, even if it was the wrong decision, I will defend my motivations to the death. So, I'm sorry; for messing this game up, filling it with shit, and depriving us of what was probably one of the best roles, and one of the best players, at the town's disposal.
And while no positive can be taken from this, no negative should be taken from it either. That includes me giving up on this game, and while lurking
is
within the rules, giving up on your team and playing against your wincon is not. And at the end of the day, I don't want to be held accountable for the effective loss of two townies instead of one when it can be easily avoided.
I also
really
don't want to be held responsible for the town's loss, so while yes, if such is to happen, I accept that I will have played a big part in it. I don't have any more shots, so the only thing left is my vote. But I will use it as best as I possibly can, to make the chance of that occurring as minimal as I, individually, can make it.
So on that note, we should all vote Replace In! He's posted what, three times today, and hasn't provided any meaningful progressive content in the entire duration of his time here. The main point is that he replaced into the god-awful radmann slot and has done nothing to counteract the legacy of their play. I also doubt he's going to be able to follow up on his claim, and if anything, a vote to pressure him into paraphrasing it would be just fine. I also personally found it pretty weird that he went to the wiki to back up his claim when one's town PM and the flavour in that should be sufficient for anyone who doesn't watch SU. I don't know if fakeclaims have their own quotes, though, which is one problem.
Another solid option would be Fuzzy, who has literally done jack shit the whole game. There's a difference between his actions and VI behaviour, as well: He hasn't made any pushes. All of his views on players are null waffling of the highest order, and everything else he's done is filler, stating obvious facts to make him look like he's doing something. I can't say I know a single solid scum read he has and I don't know if he's even voting right now. Point is, he's playing an excessively cautious game and that is very telling indeed.
So I'm officially scum reading grapes now.
These last two pages of his reason why he is scum reading sky is utter crap.
He states other scum reads but doesn't push on anyone and then bitches about people not being as active when his post count is low and very underwhelming.
Vote: grapes
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
