Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, starting to read. I know Stoz has been lynched and flipped town.

6 - Like this entrance from Henry.

7 - Equally like this response from Vee.

9 - Dislike this post from Vee. Feels overly defensive.

10/13 - Dislike these posts from Joram. Seems defensive of Vee early on and this feels like a chainsaw attack on NS.

It's very curt, it feels moreso like nervous stepping in (see, the guy who siad "Hiiiiiiiiiiii Everybody." in the game I linked. What did he flip?)

This is really bad from NS though. NS is implying here that whenever somebody says 'Hi' they always flip scum. Like, he is trying to say he has never seen anyone who said 'Hi' in their first post flip town. I can see him using this as a reason to push out of RVS but I'm making a note of it because I really don't like the way he has gone about it.

23 - More good posting from Henry. Might have my first town read right here.

He's welcome to his opinion/

guess

. I don't see it as misconstruing since i can't confirm your reasoning. From my pov its just your word against his.

Small note on the wording - 'guess' implies he knows Jorma to be town. Scum don't guess, they know.

37 - This is serious try harding from Thespio and feels like it's an attempt to impress/gain town cred. Not to mention his reads are crazy. I don't see how he is town reading Vee, I don't get the scum read on Henry, read on NS makes no sense and feels like it should be a town read?, don't understand the link between Aku and Vee. If anything, Jorma has gone out of his way to defend Vee early on. Feels like Jorma should be a null read and his read on Micc is plain weird (though I see later this is described as a gut read)

48 - Disagree with NS about fear of IC being a town tell. I feel it's much more likely to come from scum - scum perceive the IC to be their biggest threat.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

50 - Joram, I'm pretty sure you said that NS was striking you as 'very, very suspicious. This unvote makes no sense to me. Especially when you seem to have nowhere better to place it.

64 - This vote stood out to me. It stood out to me because the general consensus in the game at this time was that Thespio was coming across pretty scummy, however, not many people were voting for him. The timing of Micc's vote irks me because it looks like he has surveyed the game state and decided that a lynch might be going Thespio's way and he wants to get on that wagon early. It's opportunistic. I also dislike that he neglects everything else going on in the game.

I mean, I agree that Thespio's reads list was pretty bad but it's by no means the scummiest post in this game up to this point.

67 - Wow, I mean, what the hell is this? Joram is by far and away the scummiest player so far and right now I'm questioning a) why he hasn't got anyone pressuring/voting him and b) why the hell he didn't get lynched D1.

74 - Aku, why would you excuse any sort of scum slip? Surely by pressuring the people who you think slipped this helps you to determine whether they are newbtown or it was a genuine scum slip, no?

86 - This is a sheep of Thespio's argument from Joram.

I found it interesting how JoramanVugt basically aped all of Thespio's arguments against me (with the edifying addition of "idk you just seem to suspicious to me"). Could be a possible connection there.

This. Though I disagree there is a connection, I would say it's highly unlikely both scum approach the game in this way. Much more likely that it's one scum/one town or both town. Thinking it's Thespio town and Joram scum right now.

3: this is an indicator, if someone is constantly swapping views then they are hurting town, and look scummy to me.

Disagree. Scum are much less likely to consistently swap views/change opinions - it draws too much attention on themselves. Scum try to stay consistent and say and do the right things to avoid unwanted attention.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

109 - Yeah, I don't get Thespio unvoting Henry when he is 'obvscum'.

111 - This is a bad post, I feel Henry has been fairly clear with the reads he has produced and I've had no problem following his posts/thought process. This vote is purely because Henry voted you.

126 - Aku, I feel like after this post you should be voting Joram and I'm left wondering why you didn't.

It's late now and I'm tired. I will continue catching up at some point tomorrow.

[notscience]

Five bucks says bbt finishes his catchup and votes me

(not actually this is a figure of speech)

[notscience]

V/LA for the next week, will try to post at least once every two days but

[Micc]

hey its bbt!

looking forward to arguing in circles with you about stubbs.

[Bulbazoor]

Lol.

[HenryCabotLodge]

I promised a more in-depth read on bulbazoor to High Inquisitor Thespio so here it is. He's stayed consistent and understandable for the most part to me, with two notable exceptions. The first being in his post #449 (I'm not going to attempt to link the posts since I butchered them last time around) where he says:

VOTE: joram,screw you. This is town!!,!!,!!,

Looks like a joke mostly, but it's a strange place for a joke vote towards the end of the day- especially considering the fact that there was a sizeable faction who found Joram scummy and was willing to lynch him. He casts this vote after repeatedly expressing his town-reading of Joram, so why put him in any danger? Again most indicators point to it being facetious but it still stuck out as unseemly to me.

The other instance is in his post #504 where he says:

Ughhhhh.. I want notscience now! For suggesting to selfhammer in a suboptimal situation to do so. You could have hammered joram if you wanted a lynch. I townread him. But you still could have if you wanted a lynch so badly.

There's some more to this one. For starters, he was completely in line with notscience's case on Stoz up to that point. They did have a little bit of a hostile exchange with notscience from about posts #406-414 that doesn't amount to much more than chest-beating and snarkiness on either part. From what I can tell, they both still agree on the main points pressing the town: Joram and Stoz's respective scumminess. So the post I quoted comes after Stoz is all but out of the game, which makes it futile and something that can easily be construed as an attempt at distancing (which is how I read it when I first saw it). But the thing that bothers me about it now that I'm reading it again is the fact that bulbazoor seems to think it would be somehow less scummy for notscience to hammer someone both he and notscience read as town over Stoz, someone they both agreed was scummy. I'm having trouble understanding the reasoning behind that one. I get the opposition to the self-hammer, but I don't know how lynching someone you both mutually read as town would be more desirable.

Despite this, his suspicion of notscience doesn't seem forced to me today. I buy that he found Stoz legitimately scummy and that he could have genuine reservations about notscience despite the fact that their reads lined up pretty conveniently. I'd def like to see some clarification on the above points I made on bulba, but overall I don't think he's scummy.

Five bucks says bbt finishes his catchup and votes me

(not actually this is a figure of speech)

Despite a loss of figurative money, what would suspicion (much less a vote) on you from our new replacement mean to you?

[HenryCabotLodge]

Oh, I'm also going to have limited computer access from about mid-afternoon tomorrow (Eastern U.S time) until Monday.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Five bucks says bbt finishes his catchup and votes me

(not actually this is a figure of speech)

You seem paranoid.

hey its bbt!

looking forward to arguing in circles with you about stubbs.

I won't be talking about Stubbs. At all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And it goes on... I like Thespio for scum still. His case isnt strong at all and the unvote revote doesnt feel natural for town.

Since when is presenting a bad case a scum tell?

Also, his unvote and revote feels like he plays on emotion. I think this is much more likely to come from town than scum; it's too risky for scum to switch up their viewpoint like that. They usually try to appear more consistent.

Most of pages 7 and 8 was Micc attacking Stubbs (with Bulba supporting in the background) and Thespio, Aku and NS questioning Micc's push/defending Stubbs. I don't really see where Micc is coming from with his case on Stubbs...it feels like he is reaching pretty hard to find reasons to scum read the slot. I'm obviously coming from a biased viewpoint so I don't really want to say much more on this other than it gives me scum vibes from Micc.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

204 - This is the first of two posts where Bulba is trying hard to hold onto his Stoz scum read. Like, he doesn't even engage with anything Stoz is posting.

210 - If you truly believe Henry to be scum, why are you not pushing him? How do you expect to get your scum read lynched if you're content to sit on the sidelines because nobody believes you?

I find it odd that you have no other reads either. You have only managed to develop one read (and a vague read at that) in 9 pages?

212 - There are so many things that irk me in this reads-list from Thespio.

I don't get the scum read on Aku. You say it's based on gut but then provide reasoning for your read. Which is it?

You're also giving a lot of leeway to Joram, I don't understand this given your generally aggressive approach to the game so far.

You say Bulba is town; why?

Same for Henry; why is he town?

You also have NS (not science) as an unsure read. Why are you not engaging him to develop a read?

Micc pointed this out, but you appeared to be scum reading him the last time he posted. Also, how exactly has Micc helped you?

215 - More explanation from Bulba for why he is vote parking on Stoz. This is making me feel really uneasy, he is skating by generally unnoticed as he isn't engaging many other people and instead is sitting on Stoz.

225 - I find it very difficult to see this post coming from scum. It's far too aggressive/antagonistic.

237 - Beetlejuice. Joram seems to pop up only when he is mentioned. He still persists with his Henry is scum and I have no other reads stance as well.

241 - I hate random reads-lists like this. Why are you reading people the way you are? What purpose does this reads-list serve other than to appear pro-town?

245 - Joram, you're not scummy because you voted for Henry (well, that is part of the reason). The other reasons I'm thinking you're scum is because you're not showing any progression in your read and for a read you seem so confident in, you're not pushing it at all. You seem content to vote park on Henry and let the rest of the game pass you by whilst you make as little noise as possible.

Also, I find your proposal of a Thespio/Henry scum team flat out laughable. If that's scum theatre, I'll hang up my mafia keyboard.

249 - Thespio, this looks like a policy vote. There are numerous reasons for why you could be voting Joram but 'extended absence' and 'the town being better off without him' are not those reasons.

I do like the 'lack of original reasons' and 'lack of reads' reasons although your vote seems to boil down to 'Joram is harming town' and not Joram is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, got stuff to do. I'll try and continue catching up later today.

[Thespio]

Im just waiting for the end of the summary...

[JoramvanVugt]

Same. he has like 400 more posts to analyze.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

250 - Joram, you seemed convinced that Henry was scum, what changed?

261 - NS jumping on Stoz wagon right after Micc states he has Stoz in his lynch pile strikes me as scummy.

267 - NS using Micc as a shield for his jump onto the Stoz wagon.

268 - Bulba, you're not doing anything either. Stoz might not be doing anything to change your read but you're not doing anything further to engage him. You're also not engaging many other players outside of Stoz so it's difficult to gauge where your reads are at at any given point in the game.

269 - Thespio, your reason for jumping on the Stoz wagon is 'he isn't playing well'...really? Then you throw in the comment about Jorma being looked at Tomorrow...This is a scummy post.

270 - Now Joram jumps on the Stoz wagon; that wagon developed quickly. Joram also jumps onto the wagon that his apparent #1 scum read joined (Thespio). Why would you follow your top scum read onto a wagon?

271 - It bugs you so much that you're going to do nothing about it? Fantastic.

276 - And you're not voting Joram or pursuing this further because...

284 - Making note of this post for future reference. I have a theory behind what NS is doing but it relies on associatives and they're weak before the relevant flips have been made so I'll hold onto it for now.

[Thespio]

This is kinda like an extended loading screen...

[JoramvanVugt]

Well he is about to pass all the negative posts and onto the positive (at least mine xD where i actually start following my reads and post more often)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

301 - I think this is the first post from Joram that makes me think he is town. Having said that, I'm a sucker for AtE posts.

310 - This is quite the U-Turn from Thespio on Stoz and it comes right after Micc stating he is against the Stoz wagon. There is a trend between Thespio and Micc; see if you can spot it. I don't understand why you didn't vote for Joram in this post Thespio?

311 - All of your reasons for scum reading Stoz still seemed to apply at the time of this post so I don't get the sudden change in read at all. Again, Jorma is hardcore scum and you're still not voting him...

322 - Ah, you finally vote Joram, funnily enough, this comes after a couple more people start pressuring/questioning him. Your vote here is opportunistic and you do this a lot, you go with the flow of the game making little waves.

You're seriously buddying the IC as well (hint; that was the trend I spotted). I'm surprised Micc hasn't picked up on it.

325 - Bulba, why is Joram town? You're hard defending this slot and I don't understand why.

340 - He is? Last I saw, you were wanting to lynch him because of his supposed slip. What changed?

346 - More buddying of the IC. Why are you asking Micc if he supports a NS lynch? If you want an NS lynch, why are you not voting him? You consistently survey the scene and test the waters before committing to a stance.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

370 - Again, Thespio goes with the flow. Joram is coming under pressure and there's Thespio with another vote. This is becoming a common theme and I think it's likely coming from scum.

I honestly think both Thespio and notscience are scum

I agree with this.

[Thespio]

@joram, didnt even see those posts lol, you were pretty under duress, looks more town in my book.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

436 - Joram, can you explain how and why this read on Stoz changed please?

438 - This is your first decent reasoning for town reading Joram. However, it doesn't explain your earlier town read that you held as solid and on p17 you were starting to flap on it.

445 - Bulba comes under some scrutiny and BAM! he becomes Thespio's top scum read...Just. Like. That. Seriously, this is just getting ridiculous now.

449 - What? I mean, WHAT?!?! You spend the whole game stating Joram is town over and over and over again and then you vote for him from nowhere. That vote is absolutely absurd.

[Bulbazoor]

Same reason as some other game that ended... No one was switching.

[Thespio]

im kinda getting bored, it almost feels like a critique of how we play and not a summary...

[JoramvanVugt]

I agree Thespio lol. but then again he is still catching up and i rather have him share what he thinks then keeping it a secret.