WiFom City: Don't Trust Titus - GAME OVER

[Bulbazoor]

I am here. Wll provide a case for my townread on Blue Blur.

[TriforceP]

Well, I quickly ISOd Prolapsed. Here's my thoughts:
He has 9 posts. 3 of these could be considered useful. At this point, I'd consider him unhelpful. Pro! Show up!
His 3 serious posts mostly have to do with a vote on the Blurs. However, he has since switched votes to an RVS-type vote . This was in the 500s, which is way too late for that in my opinion, especially if you already have a serious vote. At this point I wouldn't start a bandwagon on him, but I wouldn't fight it. I also wouldn't waste any possible cop checks on him.

As for Plot, I'll leave your recent thoughts on me be right now. I'll wait until you catch up and see if you still have any questions.

[TriforceP]

And I just realized something. Sonic and Sally share a hydra. Sonic and Sally. Anyone who gets the reference also gets a cookie.

[Bulbazoor]

Well, I quickly ISOd Prolapsed. Here's my thoughts:
He has 9 posts. 3 of these could be considered useful. At this point, I'd consider him unhelpful. Pro! Show up!
His 3 serious posts mostly have to do with a vote on the Blurs. However, he has since switched votes to an RVS-type vote . This was in the 500s, which is way too late for that in my opinion, especially if you already have a serious vote. At this point I wouldn't start a bandwagon on him, but I wouldn't fight it. I also wouldn't waste any possible cop checks on him.

As for Plot, I'll leave your recent thoughts on me be right now. I'll wait until you catch up and see if you still have any questions.

Yeah but this is only a thoery on PB. I have seen lots of games where he presents a trolly attitude as town and barely posts. But as scum, he is serious and posts much more than he would do as town. So I think this is his town meta. Consider me townreading with a slight townlean.

[Bulbazoor]

VOTE: ZZZX/Drixxx

Lets just do this now and prevent lurktastic endgame please.

@Bulba: is this your first large theme? Have you played as scum before in any finished game?

@AP: How confident are you on Matsinatown?

~Sally

Seems towny. Asks for me if I have played in any games before besides the ones I played with sala. The next lines on asking AP about a read are towny.

whats the difference between unscrupulous messenger and drug dealer? And commuters take effect after roleblocker a? What's the difference between escort and hooker?

~sonic

Unscrupulous Messenger and Drug Dealer are town and scum versions of the same role. UM cannot fake feedback though.

Commuter takes place after roleblock.

Escort, Consort are both role blocks of differing alignments. I used the other name to call attention to the answer to roleblocker being a bit different than usual. They are both hookers by definition.

What was the point of this question? This wavers m read tbh.

VOTE: TriforceP

Not a random vote

I know why, but it just seems too obvious for me to sheep.

UNVOTE: Zzzx

His reaction to my vote is town. But he better not lurk through, town needs all the help they can get.

Bulba:

Ok, besides marathons, I counted 2, one with some impressive bussing and another where you were obvious. My problem is that your townread of Matsin bugs me because it looks like a weak sheeping of AP, which is bad enough but atleast AP has reasons (metalolol) for trusting Matsin and Im willing to follow for now.

Its going to be a few days until Sonic and I can put our heads together as I am busy at my radio station here all week, so its going to have to wait for the comprehensive list of scum.

Im going to sheep my other head's current thoughts for now

VOTE: Elusive

Questioning me on my read. AGain seems town. OHHHH, and the reason I townread mastin is that her posts seemed really genuine. But then again, I can be fooled by anything.

Then again, I changed my mind. ZZZX is probably scum.

VOTE: ZZZX

Do you see scum waver in reads in a way that makes them obvious?

ZZZX prove to me that you aren't scum. I feel that you're acting pretty similar to our last game.

Asking someone to prove themselves and meta is towny.

And you think ZZZX will be able to give town the help it needs...?

Blue Blur

That was all sanic, not me.

Anyways, I'm confused on what you want. I am townreading him at the moment for voting me because I don't think he would have noticed me if he was scum because of the events of Hardcore Mafia.

I don't want to lynch my townreads and and that means ZZZX lives today.

~Sally

Could have zzzx hydra as town or he really townreads zzzx. I prefer the last one.

Bulbazoor

Look, I didn't want to push him. I really didn't want to push him. I've done it before in Long Lost Friends and I haven't caught him as scum yet. I didn't vote him even though I have some issues with his buddying of Matsin. Bulba has no playthrough with Matsin before other than the fact that Bulba knows Matsin is OP and such (ugh). Even for debate, his RVS is pretty poor too, voting the Pidgeon for "Reading"

150 posts later, his only reads are town on Pidgeon/Matsin/Blue, the only main players outside of Plotinus. And than confirms his RVS vote on Elusive, even though he was RVSing on Quoth. This is wrong! He says later that he was scumreading her, but as he said...

It is rvs.

Then he AtE's with Elusive and Perese.

Usually, I like to townread the people who ask if scum have daychat, but Bulba followed after Elusive, and Elusive is the kind of person who would fake it. Bulba doesn't get any town points. Finally,

Well, I am voting my scumread.

This is a contradiction.

PV next

~Sally

TBH, this really irks me, because he fakes a contradiction. And he says I faked a question. I wanted it answered for elusive.

Why I believe PV is scum

He has 12 posts:

The first 3 are irrelevant to the gamestate.

His 5th is wifomy setup for a mislynch later on guised as a joke (been there done that).

6 and 7 are empty questions that mean little to nothing to the gamestate.

8 is nothing of value.

10 is nothing of value

that means 4 posts of his are actually something. PV should and has played better than this. This is shit and hes not a noob ala Riku so I don't get this.

~Sally

I love this one. He tries to get something out of a lurker.

Sala we need to talk

For now I have some read changes

And more reads

Bulb is obvtown
Elusive is likely town
Pidgeon frogplot maxwell singerobvtown

Klingon and triforce likely town

Oversoul obvtown

VOTE: gratituous
Sleeping pidgeon atm

DO not know what to make of this. Still town.

I told you this guy is town. I might disagree or be unsure about 1 or 2 of the reads, but they otherwise mostly come from a town perspective

I have no problem putting him in my strong town pile now

~sonic

I agree. Kling is town and I am not voting him.

[PeregrineV]

Titus: Sala head is going to be LA for this week.

Im going to talk about PV today, Im sorry about not doing that yesterday, but my news director left me in charge of doing all the newscasts this week, so that comes first.

I think I'm more important than a weeks worth of newcasts for real money as part of a job.

Peregrine, do I have some sort of vendetta against you? I seem to be aggravated at you, and I can't seem to remember why.

Maybe because last game we played I thought you were scum and was annoyed at you because you didn't try as hard as the previous game were you tried harder?

Peregrine, do I have some sort of vendetta against you? I seem to be aggravated at you, and I can't seem to remember why.

Never mind. That was Aronis from the Star Wars: KOTR game. You and he had similar avatars.

I might have played in that, but don't remember aggravating you in it.

[Oversoul]

This game, I expected Titus to know me well enough to know that I take warnings as threats and do not respond well to that. Obviously, I need to stay the fuck away from Titus too.

Titus is the mod? What are you referring to here?

[PeregrineV]

Why I believe PV is scum

He has 12 posts:

The first 3 are irrelevant to the gamestate.

His 5th is wifomy setup for a mislynch later on guised as a joke (been there done that).

6 and 7 are empty questions that mean little to nothing to the gamestate.

8 is nothing of value.

10 is nothing of value

that means 4 posts of his are actually something. PV should and has played better than this. This is shit and hes not a noob ala Riku so I don't get this.

~Sally

I'll take you word for it, since I don't feel like I've added a whole lot of value to the game at this point. But, I feel that about most of the posting by everybody.

As for playing better, since we are a few days into day1 and less than 30 pages (mostly of one-liners), you are better off asking me specific questions about specific things you want to know about. Otherwise, you're likely to get me posting only when I want to point out, share, ask, or otherwise comment on something.

[Oversoul]

Well, sort-of sitewide problem, but not really. It's mostly a this-game problem. Basically, however much not-jiving I may have in other games--past and present--this game has been a hundred times worse.

Other games I got out. This game, I think I could get out, but too early to say.

Where is that Dark Knight Rises poster when you need it...

Mastin, what do you think of Peregrine?

[Oversoul]

Pere, who are your scum reads?

[Banana Frog]

I'm back and I'm reading page 21

like that muffin is following up on questions they previous asked the blur blur in 502

ok, i see triforce does vote bulba in 503 right after his case against bulba so i retract that part of what i said bout triforce. he mentions the blue blur but doesn’t say much about them in this post, it’s a pretty wishy washy stance.

i could vote riku for 509. It’s a game. Play it. grib’s 506 is similar but grib has contributed some already so he gets more of a pass for it. riku hasn’t.

elusive in 514 when you say boo to riku are you saying the same thing as me or something else?

reads progression: riku

--Plotinus

[PeregrineV]

Pere, who are your scum reads?

Not sure I have any at this point.

Klingon sent some twitches, but then I found some of his other posts townie. I looked at elusive's case points, but didn't delve into them (although I might skim over his link).

I can say who I like for town so far:
Oversoul (plus is 95% never a day1 lynch for me)- latest explanation for changing vote- sometimes you just think that way
elusive- he feels real to me
BlueBlur- He's making cases and trying
Frog- weaker, but I think I like Plot's inights, if not the PbP.

weaker town- Perse- some of his early posting gut-towned me.

With that said, I'd be hard pressed to lynch Mastin or QuotePidgeon on day1. If they are scum, they can be caught in later days. If they are town, then their value increases the longer they live. (See the note on Oversoul).

[Banana Frog]

page 22

mastina529 it’s only page 22 though, maybe it’ll get better. you could examine the people sheeping you to see whether they’re townsheep or scumsheep? do you feel that all of the people town reading you have seen enough of your play that they should be town reading you? how do you feel about the people pushing you?

perse538



i feel like I should have an opinion of some sort about Mastin vs Klingon which starts in 539. I have a few theories about what Klingon is doing here and some of them are townKlingon theories but it might be antitown to speculate too much about it at this juncture but I can see where Mastin is coming from too.

singer548 hiiiii singer i’ve learned to count since we last played!

—Plotinus

[The Blue Blur]

Sonic, if you're town then you know I have a pretty good "identification of scum" radar but not a great get them lynched one. So help me, love.

i don't really know this dearie. our only completed game is one that should rather be left unsaid, and the rest are ongoing and I don't actually know how good your radar is


i'll trust that you're town though, kay? <3

[Banana Frog]

page 23

goat563 those are the only two players that stuck out for you that way? it looks like you took a half hour to skim twenty pages so just over a minute per page. do you have any reads?

------
I mean, I can understand this klingon wagon and the subsequent oversoul wagon but I can see scenarios in which both klingon and drixx were town and said that thing and I know I’m much better about not calling attention to people softing things when I’m scum because I don’t want to be accused of role fishing whereas when I’m town I’m somewhat more likely to n00bslip and call attention to other people’s crumbs (but i’m working on it and trying not to and i’ve been getting much better lately).

I think in general town are more likely to rolefish because we don’t know anything about the setup beyond our own roles and we know that we don’t mean anything bad by it, whereas scum know they’re supposed to be PR hunting and know that PR hunting is scummy so they try to be quieter about it.

(i know i just said in my previous post that i didn’t want to speculate but this theory is safe to speculate about.)

but i can see where quoth was coming from too.

Oversoul really wasn’t positioned to join the klingon wagon but surely he would have known that? idk. i was townleaning him before and i remember there’s something in a future page that made me want to townread him again but i don’t remember what it was. I did ok frogger voting oversoul last night, though.

i’ll get less fencesitty as the game progresses, just sometimes i can see both sides of an argument and it takes me a while to figure out which side i want to be on or if it’s a TvT then I want to be on both sides. :/


reads progression: goat oversoul the first time i read this page but he’s probably going back up soon

—Plotinus

[Quoth The Pidgeon]

I just read the last few pages on the bus. Couple scattered thoughts inc.

I'm not actually feeling as great about Plot as I could be. Going to move them closer to null.

My KC read over the last few pages has been somewhat like riding a merry-go-round. Very mixed opinions about a lot of her posts. 658 is pretty honest. That doesn't make it not-scum. Its something I could see myself posting, superficially so as either alignment. Might want some time to reread that post a few times and see if it makes an impression on me one way or another. Then there is other stuff like my head telling me that she feels different than she did in that one NY game and her self-auditing looking maybe town. Reads list was probably hilariously off base, but eh. I really should have a better read after all this, but I do not.

Elusive is becoming more and more hilariously town as this game goes on. Minor doubts there right now, but some of her posts are just really screaming town. I certainly don't think S-elusive / T-kc is possible right now.

TriforceP's post that Maxwell was waffly about actually looks rather town to me. The whole mindset and trying to improve the gamestate without any subconscious need to tie himself to the 'town' specifically looks pretty good.

PV still looks good and I like that he isn't forcing any reads through. Lack of busywork from him that I associate with his scumgame. His null read on me makes a fair amount of sense.



Very Town: Mastin2, elusive, Oversoul, Drizzt
Town: Maxwell, Muffin, Banana?

---

Rather unfortunately large amount of people in my null/meh/maybe-scum reads right now which isn't going to fly in a large on D1.

BlueBlur- I appreciate the reachout from Sally with the vote on Gratuitous; UNVOTE: Klingon; VOTE: Gratuitous....for now. Otherwise pretty conflicted on their slot. I don't get the push on PV when there is a slew of lurkers here. I don't think lack of content from PV is really that notably bad here like they are saying.

Prolapsed- No idea. ISO not giving me anything.

Banana- Basically whatever Plot's criticism of herself was. She is posting a lot of IIoA and then making offhand comments about reads going up or down. Its not particularly easy to track the progression of thought because it all kind of exists in a vacuum just fine. I sort of expect more from them. Also this was easily the worst post in the game despite appearing relatively innocuous:

^^^Assume that's Z posting. I can verify that as true.

Riku/Goat- who the fuck knows. Null.

Grib- loosely suspicious of this after reading the ISO. While elusive IS obvious town at this point, I think the read their from Grib was premature at best, scum-motivated WKing at worst. Him having a different avatar than in Hearthstone mafia might be twerking me a little (

Greeting, Traveler! My apologies!

).

Gumball- town, scum, town, scum, town, 3rd party lyncher for mastin¹, town, SK? IDK. The thinly veiled holding back about ongoing games is the most interesting thing from her in my head right now. My first opinion was that it was a townie thing from her, but now I'm thinking it could just be a ploy to look invested without actually doing much. Still there is some accountability, but eh....

Atum- town lean. I actually feel decent about this after reviewing the ISO. I like the direction and I like calling out Sally for the PV business when PV was going after him in the first place.

[Quoth The Pidgeon]

Very Town: Mastin2, elusive, Oversoul, Drizzt
Town: Triforcep, Maxwell, Muffin, PV
Weaker Town: Banana, Atum

-----

Thats half the player base, hurray. For funsies, who is left after that:

KC, Gratuitous, Singer (Pers), Bulbazoor, Grib, LittleGumball, Riku, BlueBlur, Goat, prolapsed

Of those, Riku, Goat, and Prolapsed are pretty much just dead null lurker category for me. Blueblur is someone I wouldn't vote just yet.

LG, Grib, Bulb, Singer, Gratuitous are pretty solid votes atm.

[Bulbazoor]

WHY GRIB?

[The Blue Blur]

... The grat vote was obviously not from Sally...

But I'll take that as a compliment. Why aren't you town reading our slot again?

[Quoth The Pidgeon]

But I'll take that as a compliment. Why aren't you town reading our slot again?

Counterpoint: why should I have a read on your slot?

Re Grib: Just not feeling anything in his ISO that is town. None of it explicitly looks bad, but on an overall level I don't like it. The defense of elusive early on looks like whiteknighting and Bulbazoor defense reads similarly.

His posting just feels highly focused and not ...natural. I hate using that word in this case because it gets thrown around a lot and has lost some meaning, but thats what I'm thinking on him. Would actually say Grib is a preferred wagon for me.

[elusive]

If Grib were scum he wouldn't have called KC out and would have let it happen, him calling her out speaks to me that he's town or at least lean town.

KC lynch tells us most about certain alignments. AP you should read the Apocalypse game.

Players try to say that they play differently but there are things that you don't have control over like tone, word choice, and even dealing with buddies. With enough data you can figure things like that out. It just requires poring over a lot of games or having experience. Linking to the game you're talking about would help and going through the one I linked would help you.

[Quoth The Pidgeon]

Elusive, you are assuming that KC is scum which she might not be. Or perhaps one of those 2 is the SK. I also don't particularly think that Grib can't be bussing here. His assessment of OS and Klingon makes me edgy, that particularly if KC does flip mafia.

KC lynch isn't the worst thing and I would still vote her when it comes down to it.

I'm aware of playstyle differences across games and control of it. I think my scum/town posts are night and day when I read it. I -do- play superficially different in every game depending on a lot of factors outside of my alignment though and KC's post about that is genuine. Not town, but genuine. I could check out the game in question, but I doubt it would give me too much of an opinion. I'd have to devote a fair amount of time to it and also skim over the NY game I played with her before.

[elusive]

link the ny game you played. also how to quote from another game in a separate game?

I'm assuming she is scum like 90%. That is true. Her reaction to me and then her reads list confirmed it for me. I could also link to her town games but at this point, I already feel that she got trapped\surprised\pressured and did what scumdoofs do in games like DOA which is try to flip the pressure on me and cause me to rage out. Its no longer the most effective tactic.

Riku should be replaced and other lurkers should be replaced. Or given "informal warnings" since that seems like a thing.

[Quoth The Pidgeon]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60825

[Quoth The Pidgeon]

Oh that was you who got modkilled in that one, lmao.