512: Bojack Horseman Season 2 (Over)

[AngryPidgeon]

Vote Count 1.12

Firebringer(2) - EspeciallyTheLies, Kaboose
Wingback(1) - Metal Sonic
Metal Sonic(1) - Polar Vortex

Not Voting(4): Sekai no Ki, Wingback, sthar8, Firebringer

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With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

(expired on 2015-08-21 12:00:00)

Just because I'm nocturnal doesn't mean I want to be up all night.

-Wanda

[Wingback]

ms/firebringer makes a lot of sense to me. why isn't firebringer raising hell about ms lying? why isn't ms raising hell about firebringer being a lazy sack of .....? instead

they are stroking each other's cocks about how towny they are and how wonderful it is to play with each other.

sorry. that doesn't fly. scum hunt or get dead.

my allergies are worse today than yesterday but again, i am at work and have access so i will check in every so often but then i am going home and staying home for two days.

p-edit: you are not on my town list.

I'd like a response to the post I recently quoted in my Post 944. I mentioned this before but essentially my impression was that Metal Sonic was going out of his way to get Firebringer to townread him. His Post 652 defends Firebringer in a way that is more like how scum defend townies rather than their partners. Fire's Post 655 could come from town who Metal Sonic successfully convinced he was town and it is overall a weird interaction to have between partners and I'd like to hear what makes you think they are partners. The part I underlined made me laugh out loud though.

[Polar Vortex]

You pretty clearly criticized Snowstorm for me dealing with firebringer is weird

[Wingback]

must I be on your town list to have a conversation with you?

Isn't that the standard you're applying to me? Because you've ignored everything I've said to or about you to talk to your townreads about how I'm not town.

[sthar8]

Read my post please. I said that criticizing me for dealing with firebringer, when your own slot is spending time doing the same thing, is laughably bad.

[Polar Vortex]

yeah, but at least my other half has gone in a completly different direction. I mean our slot has not been one dimensional, but you in thr last days at least interacted mostly with firebringer. Who are your scumreads?

[Kaboose]

guys, this day has gone too long. Figure out that you want to lynch firebringer already plz

[Polar Vortex]

It's only disruptive if you let it disrupt. He's one of several players in this game, one you described as low hanging fruit. So, of all people you can interact with, read and try to work with, you chose the disruptive low hanging fruit. You can ignore him, you can read him without trying to have a conversation with him, you don't need to reason with him. What you're doing is not productive and doesn't make sense.

Given how much time you and ETL are wasting trying to deal with him, I don't think it's reasonable for

you

to judge

my

efforts as unproductive. Antagonistic or not, he's a player in this game which means I need to form a read on him.

If he's town, as I suspect, then an effort to help him become a contributing member of the town should be pretty obviously welcome to townies.

Making a decree as to how

I

can best form a read is questionable to the point of being scummy.

But we have done more than that. We have sorted out Firebringer and we have been pursuing our scum reads.

Now, my problem with you is that you haven't been as present, and when you are you chose to spend time on a slot you described as low hanging fruit. When you said that about Fire you also said you believed there to be scum in MS/ETL and that Ffery was pinging you. But instead of pursuing those leads you chose to focus on the low hanging fruit you think is disruptive. That's not productive, and by focusing on Firebringer it's like you're hanging the fruit even lower.

Kaboose, we're not lynching Firebringer.

[Wingback]

I was feeling like you haven't made much of an effort to question us. Looking at your iso, I see several questions and comments for us in the early game. They seemed more about understanding our reads and asking for more detail than about directly sorting us. And they fell off after you had that first go-round with MS.

Why is trying to understand your reads in more detail different from directly sorting you? Isn't understanding someone's reads a good way to figure out their affiliation?

[sthar8]

yeah, but at least my other half has gone in a completly different direction. I mean our slot has not been one dimensional, but you in thr last days at least interacted mostly with firebringer. Who are your scumreads?

There is one of me, and two of you. This is almost as bad as defending with "oh no that was my other head."

[Polar Vortex]

yeah, but at least my other half has gone in a completly different direction. I mean our slot has not been one dimensional, but you in thr last days at least interacted mostly with firebringer. Who are your scumreads?

There is one of me, and two of you. This is almost as bad as defending with "oh no that was my other head."

Still, the one who argued with Firebringer has done more than that.

[Polar Vortex]

I don't buy sthar thinking this is actually scummy for us.

[Polar Vortex]

Do you still think there's scum between MS/ETL? Which way are you leaning?

Is Ffery still pinging you?

[Wingback]

There's actually a really big easy push on me that's

not

happening for some reason, and I'm trying to figure out what that means.

What did you mean by this? You got read as town early and there was never a point where you came under serious pressure. It could mean that scum are townreading you but it would depend on who the scum are. Is there a reason you were expecting to be an easy target?

[sthar8]

Was rereading PV's iso, considering a vote there.

Wing, I'll get back to you a little later, gotta go to work.

[Wingback]

ok so my basic conclusion is that sekai is probtown. a lot of the same ideas and thought processes are occurring there that I am following and agreeing with and having myself.

Sekai's thought processes looked different from yours in that they spent a lot of time suspecting Metal Sonic and trying to read him but less so with Firebringer. You say that Fire and Metal are scum together but we should save Metal for tomorrow because he's brilliant and we should lynch Firebringer today? You've also had a lot of problems with Sekai in the post in the wall you wrote about them. What tipped the scales to town?

Sekai backed off of the Metal Sonic read which was one of the things you agreed with. Does that change anything?

They are very eager to policy lynch me.

Where did you get this idea?

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

[sekai no ki]

I was feeling like you haven't made much of an effort to question us. Looking at your iso, I see several questions and comments for us in the early game. They seemed more about understanding our reads and asking for more detail than about directly sorting us. And they fell off after you had that first go-round with MS.

Why is trying to understand your reads in more detail different from directly sorting you? Isn't understanding someone's reads a good way to figure out their affiliation?

Understanding someone's reads is the first step. Value judgements about the reads, challenges about disagreements, probing at discrepancies, etc. are important parts of the sorting process.

If, after a player understands another player's reads and does'nt move on to other steps in sorting, the implicit message is that they don't have a problem with the posts and are satisfied with explanations.

Which doesn't gibe with a null read.

hence my wanting to know how she plans to sort us.

[Polar Vortex]

Yeah, sthar it is. He had no problem at all with us until we started asking him questions.

[Polar Vortex]

And he seems to have forgotten the players he did have a problem with.

[Wingback]

I'm reading Kaboose as town for obvious reasons. The last few pages further strengthened my townread on Polar Vortex. @Sthar, I get you are trying to read them so I won't get in your way for now but I'll say more later. Metal Sonic is still the one player that gave me no reason to think he's town. I don't think he's scum with Firebringer which means it is probably one of ETL, Sthar8, or Sekai. Sekai's posted a lot of analysis and while the quantity can be faked, one thing that stuck out to me as town was their position on Sthar8. At the time they suspected Sthar, nobody else did which makes their stance disadvantageous to scum. This is mitigated by the fact that Sthar opened with a scumread on them so I'd like to see their reasoning more in-depth. @Sekai, can you post your reads on all the players? I can follow individual reads you have but don't understand their relative strengths.

On ETL's part, I'm surprised at how strongly she seemed to be townreading me throughout the game. It could just be that my posts are transparent since many people have a townread. I can think of a few reasons why she'd do that as town but I'll keep them to myself until D2 at least. Her reactions to Wisdom thinking he broke the game is still a pretty strong towntell. If she was scum and got caught from cheating, a reroll would be perfect because there's always that uncertain feeling that players would have so it doesn't make sense for scum to not ask for one. I don't understand ETL and Sthar8 wanting to leave Metal Sonic for tomorrow. I'll try and look back at the way ETL, Sthar8, and Sekai were all reading each other.

I didn't find the last few pages very useful and I agree with the general notion that the game is dragging a bit. Metal Sonic is the one player I want to lynch and depending on his flip, try to make further connections.

VOTE: Metal Sonic

[sekai no ki]

@Sekai, can you post your reads on all the players?

I want to post a synched reads list, hopefully tonight.

[Metal Sonic]

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

omgus

VOTE: polar vortex

[Metal Sonic]

Bunch of stuff last night will catch up later

[sthar8]

There's actually a really big easy push on me that's

not

happening for some reason, and I'm trying to figure out what that means.

What did you mean by this? You got read as town early and there was never a point where you came under serious pressure. It could mean that scum are townreading you but it would depend on who the scum are. Is there a reason you were expecting to be an easy target?

I jumped on defending ETL from wisdom's attempted cheating. It's possible that the scumteam is oblivious enough to have not seen it, it is possible that ETL is scum and her team decided not to push something that implicated her, and it is possible that the scumteam didn't think they'd have enough traction from that to lynch me.

If I were ETL's scumbuddy, I would want the sthar-slot lynched ASAP, since the broken logic there could be used to pseudoclear her. If ETL were town and I were scum, I'd want sthar-slot lynched for defending her. I might push that they're likely scumbuddies or that sthar-slot is wk-ing, but more likely I'd push her first on the scumbuddy logic and then him on the wk-ing logic.

It's a high value, low risk play for scum, and I'm trying to figure out why they didn't take it.