NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Lapsa

And before you ask for a reason, anyone, it's because of posts like 1373.

how unfair. I didn't vote for you

[GrayFoxxxx]

Lapsa, any reason for that vote?

no

I like the cut of your jib

[Lapsa]

food queue << mashed potatoes

[Ozgin]

I don't care if you don't vote for me, I'm town and your vote doesn't bother me. Your play, however, does bother me, and you deserve to die.

[Fro99er]

Lapsa, any reason for that vote?

no

VOTE: Lapsa

And before you ask for a reason, anyone, it's because of posts like 1373.

It's classic town Lapsa if you ask me.

[Skybird]

Frog, so town lapsa is always like this?

[Fro99er]

Frog, so town lapsa is always like this?

Seems like it to me, yes.

[SilverWolf]

I'm probably just an idiot, and it's my fault for getting run up to a claim. I can't really blame anyone but myself for bad play, and I gotta try to stop being stupid. :/

<3

I'm sorry Ozgin. I should of known better. If any player in this game knows what you are like as scum it would be me. I misread you. You know me also and you didn't misread me. You are not stupid. I've seen some very good play from you as both town (185) and scum (180). I would argue I'm having a worse game than you are right now. It happens. It's D1. It's not your fault or anyone's fault.

On this note, I'm not running anyone else up to a claim now. GrayFoxxxx is a VT who's lynch will provide us information. He's the best bet, IMO.

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx

[texcat]

VOTE: Salamence

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Mahonster

[Fro99er]

@SW - I tend to non-entity Day 1. Habit I've never been able to break. This game makes it extra hard because I don't like trying to read through personal attacks and bullshit.

Can you provide town examples of this?

Also, while I'm low post count - I was the person that pushed the now currently largest wagon to where it is

- so I'm a nonentity because I'm not posting insane post counts? It's not like all my posts have been prod dodges. This is really weird logic that doesn't seem normal for you.

This is pretty scummy. Especially the bolded.

[Fro99er]

Actually, VOTE: quaroath

Mahonster seems scummy too, but quaroath more so.

[Wake1]

Give me some time, please.

Just got home, and reading.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Frogger you are confusing the town with your votes

[Fro99er]

Frogger you are confusing the town with your votes

How?

[Nosferatu]

Frogger you are confusing the town with your votes

I don't see anything confusing.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Salamence

Why?

VOTE: Mahonster

Actually, VOTE: quaroath

Mahonster seems scummy too, but quaroath more so.

Why?
Furthermore, didn't you agree with some on Q's reasoning earlier? What changed and why is he so scummy now?

[Skybird]

Grayfoxx, why do you think not explaining a vote is good? (re: Lapsa's response to me)

[Fro99er]

Why?
Furthermore, didn't you agree with some on Q's reasoning earlier? What changed and why is he so scummy now?

Yes, I did. It was an argument on Ozgin who has now claimed JOAT, so both Q and I were wrong.

Did you not read 1385? He clearly is like "oh yes, I'm low post count, BUT ITS OK BECAUSE I DID THE ORIGINAL PUSH". Scum likes to point out how they did something original. Usually, when someone makes an original point as town, they just make the point. He's bragging about pushing the Grayfoxx wagon, and I believe grayfoxx is town.

He's sitting here pushing mislynch wagons and pointing out how he was the original pusher on one of them. Again, town don't need to point out they were the original pusher unless they are in danger of mislynch. Usually scum point out their originality when not under threat.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Grayfoxx, why do you think not explaining a vote is good? (re: Lapsa's response to me)

I was being ironic.

[Mahonster]

VOTE: Mahonster

Lol quality discussion.

[Wake1]

Here, my wagon was rushed, and I cautioned players regarding it. *

This had been preceded by three votes in rapid succession [11 minutes].***

The wagon attempt was questioned again.*

During this, TSO questions Grayfoxxxx for his vote on me.* Just after, Silverwolf questions all three.*

In response to TSO's question, Grayfoxxxx says he's scumhunting and sheeping Sal.*. At this point I do feel he's Town, but is a bit lame, or dumb, in that he reasoning sucks, and I think Scum in general, their nature being to do things to not be suspected and lynched, wouldn't resort to saying stupid things like that. Does that make sense?

At this point it starts to get interesting, and here is

exactly

why.

In response to Grayfoxxxx, TSO says he wants to lynch him.* He then says voting Grayfoxxxx will earn you towncred*, and stresses his desire to see Grayfoxxxx dead.*

Now, what's remarkable about this, like now? Let's see.

Knowing the nature of the game, and not wanting potentially dumb-Town being lynched because, well, Town, I caution the group again.* Meaning he could really be Town, and Scum

will

attempt to capitalize.

This is the start of the real issue.

TSO suggests I should move my vote, because he says it's doing nothing.*

Curious, and hyper-alert to manipulation, I ask him where he wants me to move my vote.*

TSO gives an unconvincing reason for voting for Grayfoxxxx.* Not enthused.*

Knowing that I was one of four players who had placed votes on other players that were at L-10, I ask him why he selects me.* He and I both know how it looks with Grayfoxxxx's unwise vote on my unwise wagon. A seed of doubt regarding TSO'd intentions stepping in between us to convince me to unvote him and go for Grayfoxxxx... I don't feel it is coincidental.

Curiously, he responds by asking me why I thought any of those other three players were even remotely worthy of my vote.* He misread.

Because of this, I ask him why he thinks Grayfoxxxx is worthy of my vote.*

TSO responds by asking me why I mentioned Boonskiies, that he's not a viable wagon, and that no one has really expressed interest in voting him.* While he said this, I knew he had misunderstood me.

Rewind a few posts: TSO hints at wanting one or more people to step up and help.* I'm weighing it.*

TSO provides some reasons why Grayfoxxxx should be voted, but he opens himself up for interrogation.* The main detail of import was him saying Grayfoxxxx lurked as Scum, implying Grayfoxxxx is Scum for supposedly lurking this game.

I clarify things for TSO here.*

It gets better.

I pick at his reasoning.*

Grayfoxxxx responds to TSO's reasons on why he should be voted.*

TSO then says he doesn't have the patience to cajole me into voting for Grayfoxxxx.*

So, knowing I'm voting TSO, and that I have a 7W with Grayfoxxxx on it, TSO tries to persuade me to change my vote to Grayfoxxxx. He's suggested who is and isn't remotely worthy of my vote, and has been persuade me to do something with flattery [cajoling].

Asking for evidence of Grayfoxxxx being lurky as Scum.*

TSO offers evidence that, in the end, actually hurts his case against Grayfoxxxx.* He links a game where Scum-Grayfoxxxx posted five times and then replaced out [1240 posts, 49 pages], as evidence of him being Scum here. This game, at that point, Grayfoxxxx has posted 37 times [1091 posts, 44 pages].

Does anyone else not see this?

Made my concerns known.*

TSO reaffirms my suspicion that he was wanting to get me to unvote him and vote for Grayfoxxxx.* Also that he was trying to capitalize on my predicament to effect change in my vote. Says he misread, and that he targeted me to change my vote because I was online, though he just reaffirmed to me that he chose me because of my predicament, to get me to change my vote. Which means he didn't target me because I was online. He then questions me as to why he would openly tell me he was trying to flatter me, though he just admitted that he had tried to flatter me twice to get me to shift, which means he was trying to flatter me none-the-less.

Pointing it out in retro.*

Throughout these exchanges, Grayfoxxxx has pointed out TSO's wishy-washy case against him based on Scum meta.

Silverwolf jumps in, voting for Grayfoxxxx.*

TSO apparently back-pedals off the shit case against Grayfoxxxx, and instead redirects to why Gray is voting me.*

I caution Silverwolf.* Unsure if she is Town, I decide to check if she will play stupid, or be genuine. Having ushered her into the game, and knowing that she played more than some of my games as she learned, I have a better understanding of her play than other players, in general. That's the truth of it. I know that Silverwolf gets weary as Scum, and doesn't like having to play under false pretensions.

Again I caution her about TSO's atgtempt to manipulate me to strike at Gray, even though Gray is on my 8W for insufficient reasons.*

Guys, note these next exchanges.

Silverwolf asks me if TSO is Scum for his push on Grayfoxxxx.*

In effect I respond to her that if she read the last exchanges, she would see that TSO was trying to subvert my vote to Grayfoxxxx, through flattery, trying to capitalize on my predicament, which would benefit TSO and put another weight on Gray.*

Note this, guys.

She very simplistically decides to not actually read the exchanges or my posts, especially the ones where I actually posted to point out he was trying to manipulate me. Definitely over-simplifying it; Town Silverwolf would give a damn and not try to gloss something over. Something is wrong with that filter this game, which gives me reason to pause. She asks me if I'm scumreading TSO, townreading Gray, and why I objected to her vote. That is dancing around the question. She never once asked me

why

I was suspicious of TSO. No, that would draw attention.*

Basically, at this point a shade of doubt manifests, in that maybe, maybe, Silverwolf is running interference for TSO.

Shinobi timely pops in. Says Ozgin [who'd later be run up wrong and claim JoaT].*

Silverwolf is loving the idea. She wants to see that wagon going. Divert!*

I respond to her, brushing away the dodgy questions, and asking her exactly why she hasn't asked me why I'm suspecting TSO.*

She shuts down by saying I'm rude.* Doesn't want to answer, or really talk about it, which makes me think 'why?' I mean, she's presumably Town, so why wouldn't Town-Silverwolf actually engage? No, she'd be interested. She wouldn't be dodging. She wouldn't try to redirect the discussion. She wouldn't be playing obtuse. No, I point my finger at Silverwolf, and I keep my vote on TSO for now.

Shinobi plays dumb, and also tries to redirect the discussion elsewhere, to the bad Ozgin wagon.*

Both Silverwolf and Shinobi refuse to engage me over TSO's attempt to capitalize on my predicament, and his attempts to flatter me to change my vote. They're just ignoring it, and I think I might know why.

TSO
Silverwolf
Shinobi

I'm keeping these three in mind. Did not like that flow of exchanges one bit: it was coordinated.

Again I point this stuff out.*

Shinobi completely plays dumb in a devil-may-care kind of way.*

Shinobi and Silverwolf are avoiding engaging me directly and genuinely on the TSO/Grayfoxxxx issue.

TSO does not engage further. Proceeds to go about as if nothing happened.

I'm calling it on those three, tentatively.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Mahonster

Lol quality discussion.

I know, right.

[Spiffeh]

Boonskiies and Shinobi

please check our neighborhood.

[Quaroath]

He is scum. I don't care what you think. I noted that, while I was reading, some players have said things along the lines of, "Oh Grey is just an easy lynch, and people pushing his lynch are more than likely scum!", but I don't change my reads on what other people say. If you'd look at his ISO, you'd see that all of his posts lack substance, he only ever sheeps when he votes, and as far as I remember, I'm the only player he has really engaged with. So yeah, he's scum.

I'm perfectly comfortable with this lynch, but it reads - with everything else - like picking the easy target.

And yes, you did want more from me!

UNVOTE: Ozgin
I guess I'll wait a bit before casting another vote.

lmao I'm a fucking idiot, EDBWOP, should be UNVOTE: grayfoxxx lmao. But you should be able to realize that I fucked up if you can properly read english, but w/e.

Wait.. so it's our job to remember who you are voting, not yours? ....

ree with SW, I think it was, who said that it's hard to have a good read based on secondhand info from the hood. I didn't like Anna's start particularly, but I didn't like Frogger's start very much either. So I'm reluctant to take one interpretation over the other. Although I do have a town lean on Skybird. I'd like to see more from Anna to get a better feel fo

Random thought - this push on Anna could be a scum team bussing a partner to solidify cred they are "2 town from the hood". It's unlikely but that popped into my head reading this post. Not sure why.

I believe Q is always scum because Gamblers Fallacy.

=(

Kop and Quaroth are both mega-lurkers.
Those wagons could be fun.

I remember asking Kop a question about why he wanted to lynch Ozgin and he wanted to kill Oz regardless of his alignment. He wasn't really straightforward about it either - he said Oz was either bad town or scum and left it at that.


I can't remember a single thing Q has done this game at all.

Tryhard

@SW - I tend to non-entity Day 1. Habit I've never been able to break. This game makes it extra hard because I don't like trying to read through personal attacks and bullshit.

Can you provide town examples of this?

Also, while I'm low post count - I was the person that pushed the now currently largest wagon to where it is

- so I'm a nonentity because I'm not posting insane post counts? It's not like all my posts have been prod dodges. This is really weird logic that doesn't seem normal for you.

This is pretty scummy. Especially the bolded.

Only if you want exmaples taht are 4 years old - as that's the last time I played a large. Sorry.

Also - it is TOTALLY scummy without context. However it was a direct reply to this:

-Quaroath only has 9 posts and is basically a non-entity

It entire purpose was to point out - Hey, I'm contributing and have impacted the game. That's hardly "non entity". In context, it's a lot less bad. But then again - you didn't want to quote the context for that reason I assume?