NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[SilverWolf]

Quar said to wait until D3. I'm actually not wanting to end the day right now Texcat until we've discussed who else is scum like I just mentioned. Did you read me or Qua? I'm kind of wondering why the only thing you want to talk about is killing TSO, ending the day ASAP, and nothing else. You've been more active on this issue than most other things all game.

What is the hurry here? Do you have any other scum reads? We know TSO is SK. He either dies today or he doesn't. All you do is post like you are in a rush to kill him and in a rush to end the day. I wasn't really scumreading you but now I wonder. Or do you not like that Red and Mah are under pressure?

ika's doing the same thing but he's always like that, mah seems to be pretty intent on it too but not voting, Red is intent on it as well

Guess that's all my scumreads right now then. Thanks for making it easier.

[goodmorning]

mah is super scummeh, I'd vote that shit 2nd adfterr Red

no offense mah, I lkie you otherwise but scum is scum

I'm more inclined to vote Mahon still but I haven't read pages 37-65 yet so maybe there's something between there that will change my mind?

Quar said to wait until D3. I'm actually not wanting to end the day right now Texcat until we've discussed who else is scum like I just mentioned. Did you read me or Qua? I'm kind of wondering why the only thing you want to talk about is killing TSO, ending the day ASAP, and nothing else. You've been more active on this issue than most other things all game.

This is an interesting point.

--
ftr I'm probably not going to chunk the pages I haven't read because I know too much.

[SilverWolf]

I don't think there will be much to change your mind on mah.

Texcat, I'd like to point this out:

VOTE: Salamence
I see no town benefit for a speed lynch. I do see a benefit for scum. A short day means fewer clues behind. (And I'm tired of his neverending posts with no content and urging us to speed lynch.)

I just got back from a short day at the office, expecting to see TSO's flip and the thread locked. How can we still be debating this?

[SilverWolf]

Other thoughts - I think we'd be better served with SW visiting Shinobi's hood.

He scumslips in the hood, and during the night his hood mates decide it wasn't a slip?

hmmm.....

I don't like this.
The only person in the hood whose opinion is a mystery to everyone still alive was Boon. Spiffeh clearly changed his mind before the thread closed, so why are you trying to attribute both of their deaths to me?

Where in any of the interactions with Quaroath there did you get the impression that he was saying you killed anyone in your neighborhood? It specifically looked to me like he was talking about the supposed scumslip. But one of your neighbors is dead and looks to be the scum kill...................................

Debating visiting to check this out for myself or Red's hood if he doesn't get lynched to check him out. Not sure which would be better and I probably am not going to say for sure today. I'll just leave that as a question mark for now. Also, not sure if I'll make my presence known or not until the end just to confirm I'm there.

It's also not beyond the realm of possibility Shinobi is being set-up by scum here due to Spiffeh's death and Quaroath making an issue of it OR it's Quaroath displaying normal town paranoia.

[Annadog40]

Here is a thread that talks about whether leashing is a good idea or not.


And it's impossible to have a Psychiatrist in the game correct?

[T S O]

Don't fool yourself, Anna, it's highly unlikely that there's a Psychiatrist.

[Lapsa]

Even if you believe that TSO is SK, what makes you think that scum will kill him? They won't.

Refuting your points is so wearying.

found this one interesting on annadog's link:

And as I said, I can't imagine myself as scum ever night shooting at an SK.
A) they usually have a BP, or means to protect themselves (so I'm not wasting a shot so early on)
B) If I'm controlling their shot, sweeeeet.
C) Eventually the town has to turn and lynch them, so badabing badaboom

seems that mostly people do prefer lynching. especially night SK`s

anyway - worth reading that thread

[T S O]

Lapsa - I can't actually remember how many times I've cited NY 180 where I essentially leashed myself to town and got shot by scum. Why doesn't this get through?

[T S O]

#2209 is wrong because it's clearly a hypothetical, not a claim, while quoting a post where you disagree with me isn't a justification for your vote...

[T S O]

VOTE: texcat

[T S O]

im done with this game untill town decides to be smart and lynch tso

You say this like you were actually playing the game beforehand or something.

[Lapsa]

@Wolfie, your slave ain't behaving. consider reducing his food rations

[Ozgin]

First post from college dorm

But seriously, I come back and TSO is caught scum turned survivor turned serial killer? What in a farfandoogan fuck is going on? And let me ask this to everyone not voting TSO:

1) What is the point in leaving a Serial Killer alive?
2) If you plan on leashing him, how do you know you can trust him?
3) If you're gonna lynch him eventually anyways, why not just do it now? One less anti town role, right?
4) What if he's just lying scum anyways? Where's the merit in his claim after claiming something as stupid as Survivor?

Please, let's not be risky or edgy or stupid and lynch someone who is clearly not town, groupscum or not.

[SilverWolf]

It is absolutely and categorically the right move to leash a Day SK. You are literally getting two lynches.

Hell, if I was town in a game with an outted Day SK who killed as directed, and we still got down to a 1:1:1 scenario even with the double lynches, I'd let the SK win.

With a Night SK, its harder. Early in a Large game, though, I'd usually recommend it -- name a target, and if that target isn't dead the next Day, then you can lynch the person. It's chancier than a Day SK due to doctors, roleblockers, redirectors, etc, etc, etc, etc, along with the usual "guy is really Mafia and is just trying to prolong existence," but at worst you lynched Suspect B over Suspect A, and can then lynch Suspect A the next Day, at best you've gained extra controlled kills which is good.

In a Mini, or later on in a Large, you don't have the wiggle room and should go for your confirmed scum lynch.

I read that thread. They were talking about a day SK which I've never played with. The above is decent advice for a night SK. So why not do the above? Scum will block him if they have a RBer and if he's BP they waste a shot on him if they decide to kill him. I don't know that either of those things can be controlled by town right now. So if the person who should be targeted is alive the next day, we lynch TSO and move on. I mean that gives town control of an extra lynch-NK that we wouldn't have otherwise.

Because right now, I'm getting pretty close to being able to PoE to get scum because I have enough townreads so we can use/abuse (LOL) TSO for day/night and take it from there.

Yes, this means we have to trust him but if he fails us, he dies. End of story. It gives town an edge IMO.

[redFF]

when u find scum/3rd party, you lynch scum/3rd party

a cop outed himself, tso is clearly the lynch

pedit: ozgins got it

[SilverWolf]

It is absolutely and categorically the right move to leash a Day SK. You are literally getting two lynches.

Hell, if I was town in a game with an outted Day SK who killed as directed, and we still got down to a 1:1:1 scenario even with the double lynches, I'd let the SK win.

With a Night SK, its harder. Early in a Large game, though, I'd usually recommend it -- name a target, and if that target isn't dead the next Day, then you can lynch the person. It's chancier than a Day SK due to doctors, roleblockers, redirectors, etc, etc, etc, etc, along with the usual "guy is really Mafia and is just trying to prolong existence," but at worst you lynched Suspect B over Suspect A, and can then lynch Suspect A the next Day, at best you've gained extra controlled kills which is good.

In a Mini, or later on in a Large, you don't have the wiggle room and should go for your confirmed scum lynch.

I read that thread. They were talking about a day SK which I've never played with. The above is decent advice for a night SK. So why not do the above? Scum will block him if they have a RBer and if he's BP they waste a shot on him if they decide to kill him. I don't know that either of those things can be controlled by town right now. So if the person who should be targeted is alive the next day, we lynch TSO and move on. I mean that gives town control of an extra lynch-NK that we wouldn't have otherwise.

Because right now, I'm getting pretty close to being able to PoE to get scum because I have enough townreads so we can use/abuse (LOL) TSO for day/night and take it from there.

Yes, this means we have to trust him but if he fails us, he dies. End of story. It gives town an edge IMO.

The above should say if they have a RBer and use it they will waste it on him and not a potential town PR.

In other words, it forces scum to worry about the SK when they wouldn't have to if town lynches him.

Scum will want him lynched today, there is no question about it.

[T S O]

It's so frustrating when people you expect to be vaguely competent play so badly. That's clearly the wrong fucking play, Ozgin.

[SilverWolf]

Am I not explaining myself well when I say we get an extra shot at scum if we leash TSO or how is this hard to follow?

[T S O]

There are so many bad arguments flying around.

"He'll just kill more town" - this will first cause my death, which is against my WC, and also aid scum, which right now is also against my WC. So this won't fucking happen.
"He'll say he got roleblocked and not kill" - this removes the scum roleblock from the equation, meaning someone like Firebringer will actually get results.
"How do we know we can trust him" - because I'll die if I betray the truth so why the fuck would I do it?
"We'll lynch him eventually" - yeah and in the meantime you're getting a free vig since one of yours is already dead

[T S O]

EBWOP: betray the trust.

[T S O]

Mindlessly saying "HE'S NOT TOWN SO WE HAVE TO LYNCH HIM" is so fucking naive considering you're getting a free vig and also considering you

need

that vig because one of yours is already dead and the game is balanced for that, AND you're already 4 town and 2 PR's down.

[Lapsa]

Scum will want him lynched today, there is no question about it.

well, if there's one thing I have learned from Refraction game is that in multiball both sides prefer taking down majority of town before hitting each other.
gaining an advantage over other anti-town faction is secondary objective so to speak.
and with scum+sk that's given

[T S O]

The bizarre thing is that because it's a guided vig people seem to expect me to deviate from it immediately tonight. I'm not playing this game just to live until another day and I have no bias towards scum winning. In fact, given how shitty scum tactics are this game (lurk lurk lurk), I'd prefer them to lose.

[T S O]

Every single point I make is likely made before in my ISO. Just saying. I can't get anything done if I constantly have to rephrase answers that no-one has been able to find fault with yet.

[SilverWolf]

Holy fucking shit people, the correct move for town is clearly not to lynch TSO today. Now, the correct move for scum is to scream for his lynch today and discredit any arguments against that.

You look at how it's played out so far and then decide. Every argument I had for lynching him in my mind has been dispelled to my satisfaction in researching this further. I will admit, I've never leashed an SK before. I will also admit that the one time it was brought up in a multiball game I was in-one scum wanted to help us kill the other team-I pushed for his lynch so hard it wasn't even funny-and I was town.

But this actually makes sense to leash today and give town the advantage of taking out potentially two scum and for sure two people who would of been lynched anyway. I can't believe both people we lynch/kill would be town or we are truly incompetent and deserve to lose.

pedit: Lapsa as scum in multiball I wanted the other team dead for the most part but I will admit there were some days where I was hoping both teams hit town to even out the numbers. Town won because the other team was taken out too fast at least partly so I get that point as well.

But this isn't multiball. It's SK who's main objective is to kill scum. If he shots the way we don't want him to or doesn't shoot who we say, he dies.

I wonder if I'm just not being clear here or maybe someone can outline why I'm wrong.