Mini 1709: Radjarok: Game over!

[VeeGee]

Don't see why I should, as I'm pretty sure I already did.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Don't see why I should, as I'm pretty sure I already did.

Where? Quote the post.

[SamX]

I didn't ignore. I assumed it was still RVS. I don't understand why it's weird if I don't hop onto the bandwagon. I mean, Trivium voted for himself for shits. I'm going to vote whomever I think is scum. I think it's a good thing for you if we don't mislynch you. If you read a little bit after the RQS by Trivium, I said I work full time, 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. I don't think I said anything about posting wise, but I try to get a post in after work or during breaks.

I'm not saying it's weird you didn't hop onto the bandwagon, I'm saying that it was concerning that you didn't mention it at all while it was happening. Same with the RQS thing; you said you work full time, but you didn't say it until AFTER I voted for you so that doesn't count.

At any rate, none of this is really relevant now and I don't understand why you're disproportionately defensive about this.

Fair enough, I'm only posting this to inform you that I'm not ignoring that. I work full time therefore I wasn't able to post, FYI. This ends here. It's not going anywhere and it's distracting me and potentially other players from trying to find scum.

[Accountant]

Right now my strongest scumreads are on VeeGee and Dessew. I'm not sure what gob's doing, he started off fine with clear reads and then went on into a ramble about newbie games and how his reads are always correct. If I had to guess he's VI/scum.

My vote on VeeGee stands. I'm not particularly impressed with Hopkirk's vote splitting, especially as VG hasn't given a very sound defense and has (even more suspiciously IMO) not answered Haschel's question.

Biggest town reads are Haschel, Tex, hop.

[VeeGee]

What's up with you agreeing with my opinion so strongly out of nowhere?

[Accountant]

Convince me why I should vote gob over you, VeeGee. Build a case against him, because right now I'm pushing for your lynch, not his.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Alright. In post 89 you expressed mild suspicion at gob. In post 158, you vote for gob, saying that you don't know why you didn't earlier.

Are you saying that I should either, A: Keep voting texcat, even though I had no reason to, or B: Vote someone random?


I'm not doing either.

Let's talk about the false dichotomy here. You suggest that your options are either voting for a player you are not suspicious of, or voting for a player at random. Now, you leave off the option that you could vote for somebody you think is scum. And you've already made post 89, so in theory you think gob is scum at this point. How do you reconcile claiming 89 as a scumread while also apparently having no scumreads in 116?

[VeeGee]

VOTE: Gob


Been wanting to,

no idea why I didn't earlier.

[stoz]

stoz has virtually done nothing, which is fine by itself. The suspicious part is his tone. Example:

At first I thought Trivium's question was quite good, because it would force scum to declare if they are going to be active or lurk when they have less information on the game.

Upon thinking about it some more I realised that if Trivium was scum it could be a great tool to use to help forward a lynch on someone town who gets busy in real life.

Overall I'm going to have to treat it as null.

A meticulous piece of analysis of nothing with no real conclusion at the end. The time & energy he seems to devote to fence-sit is truly remarkable. The rest of his iso is better in the sense that he's more active, but he has just moved away from the total nihil, in the direction of one of the already established & discussed to death.

I agree this wasn't my best post, but I haven't been fence sitting, I've been sharing my observations and opinions when able.

VeeGee, you said earlier that you were going to try harder this game not to get lynched, but now when people are asking you to explain your actions you are dodging the question. Re-quoting the same message doesn't really help.

I'm actually quite concerned with gob and Dessew defending each other. In #184 gob described Dessew as "my top town" when Dessew's contributions at that time were:

#79: "I wouldn't jump to conclusions regarding the alignments of [Haschel and Hopkirk]." and clarifies a mistake gob made.
#138: "First of all, let's not get carried away [with gobs list]"
#161: "Why [is VeeGee voting] Gob? Why not vijay?"
#182: "The time & energy [stoz] seems to devote to fence-sit is truly remarkable"

Almost everything has been about putting gob in a positive light. If I had been voting or expressing suspicion of gob I really would believe Dessew was the gob defence force, so Dessew's vote on me is the only part that doesn't stack up. Perhaps Dessew is looking to start a counter-wagon that won't look like OMGUS?

[Haschel Cedricson]

VOTE: Gob


Been wanting to,

no idea why I didn't earlier.

Hmm, I interpreted you post to mean "I wanted to vote for gob but didn't for some reason; I don't know why I didn't earlier", but I suppose "I didn't know who I wanted to vote for for some reason; I don't know why I forgot I was suspicious of gob" is another reasonable interpretation.

Let's have some more reads. What do you think about Accountant?

[Accountant]

@Haschel: Personally, I think she's mafia.

@stoz: If gob was mafia defending his buddy, would he really do it as blatantly as declaring Dessew his top town? The "subtle" defense of gob by Dessew disturbs me a lot more though.

@Dessew, gob: what are your reads on each other? Do you still think the other is town what with all the suspicion flying in your general direction?

[vijay2vasandani]

stoz has virtually done nothing, which is fine by itself. The suspicious part is his tone. Example:

At first I thought Trivium's question was quite good, because it would force scum to declare if they are going to be active or lurk when they have less information on the game.

Upon thinking about it some more I realised that if Trivium was scum it could be a great tool to use to help forward a lynch on someone town who gets busy in real life.

Overall I'm going to have to treat it as null.

A meticulous piece of analysis of nothing with no real conclusion at the end. The time & energy he seems to devote to fence-sit is truly remarkable. The rest of his iso is better in the sense that he's more active, but he has just moved away from the total nihil, in the direction of one of the already established & discussed to death.

Nope, doing nothing is not fine by itself.

Also nothing else happening right now. When does the day end? VeeGee lynch needs to happen.

[Accountant]

I agree that we need to lynch VeeGee, but we definitely should not hammer early. To be clear, I'm autolynching anybody that quickhammers VeeGee, even if VG turns out to be scum.

[Klingoncelt]

I agree that we need to lynch VeeGee, but we definitely should not hammer early. To be clear, I'm autolynching anybody that quickhammers VeeGee, even if VG turns out to be scum.

That's playing against Town's win condition. It's also narcissistic.

[Radja]

DAY 1, VOTECOUNT 6

VeeGee (4)

-

Accountant, vijay2vasandani, SamX, stoz

gob (2)

-

texcat, VeeGee

St Constantine the Hermit (1)

-

St Constantine the Hermit

vijay2vasandani (1)

-

Klingoncelt

stoz (1)

-

Dessew

Dessew (1)

-

Hopkirk

Not Voting (3)

-

havingfitz, gob, Haschel Cedricson

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on September 5th at 08:00 PM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2015-09-05 08:00:00).

Mod Notes - None

[Accountant]

I agree that we need to lynch VeeGee, but we definitely should not hammer early. To be clear, I'm autolynching anybody that quickhammers VeeGee, even if VG turns out to be scum.

That's playing against Town's win condition. It's also narcissistic.

I'm precommiting to this in order to deter people from quickhammering in the first place. Note that mafia also has reason to quickhammer other mafia at L-1. It makes them look good and also allows them to cut short the day.

[gob]

@Dessew, gob: what are your reads on each other? Do you still think the other is town what with all the suspicion flying in your general direction?

Is this at me?

I already said i strongly believe Dessew is town.

Anyway, VeeGee is grasping at straws here, "o i wanted to vote him earlier" how is that any justification?

Hershel. Top Town?

[gob]

Im not gonna lie btw, my reads are probably wrong, some of them. But they got the game moving from what i can see.

At this point i think we need to look at VeeGee and Acountant, Acountant's logic just seems off.
VeeGee has 0 logic, i think he was trying to fuck with me by voting me and now he is just doing damage control since he realized he fucked up.

[Accountant]

But they got the game moving from what i can see.

The game was well out of RVS when you made that post, Haschelwagon had started and ended and accusatioms were already being thrown around. Don't take credit for something you didn't do.

At this point i think we need to look at VeeGee and Acountant, Acountant's logic just seems off.

The thing about a player seeming off - that's a matter of subjectivity, and not really provable. But a flaw in logic, is, by its very nature, provable, and I would therefore like you to give a thorough explanation of what you don't like about my logic.

[gob]

OMGUS so hard

[texcat]

I don't think that's OMGUS. Accountant didn't call you scum because you said her logic was off. She just wants an explanation of what is "off".

[gob]

i think logic was the wrong word to use, for one i think accountant has been flipping so much, trying to look good in public opinion, this could be due to the fact she is inexperienced however.

[Haschel Cedricson]

What did she flip on?

[gob]

What did she flip on?

me, her read on me. It was explained but FMPOV (and i may be biased) it was very sloppy and kinda broken logic.

[havingfitz]

Starting from the beginning and doing a re-read/catch up.

Page 1:

The only thing that really stands out on this page is Hopkirk getting up to 4 votes [Haschel, Dessew, texcat & vijay] by post 22.  That's a decent sized wagon for RVS.  Regardless of Hopkirk's alignment I would be surprised if there wasn't one or two scum on that quick build up.

Page 2:

The Haschel - Hopkirk interchange...not sure what that is all about.  Doesn't get cleared up on this page and the shroud of mystery Haschel applies to it has put him at 3 votes.  Other than a few RQS responses nothing else really going on.

Page 3:

@Haschel...so was the "You know why" reason for voting Hopkirk just RVS?  And why vote Samx instead of players like gob, VeeGee or Trivium?  This exchange does have me reading Hopkirk towards town atm.

Not sure why vijay follows Haschel onto Samx when he doesn't even know the reason for Haschel's Samx vote.  Which apparently is part of some puzzling intrigue which can not be disclosed until after Samx has provided a reaction/response.  zzzzzzzz

@gob...what?

This post should be read in the style of SNL's Two Wild and Crazy Guys.  A bit overly explanatory IMO...

OK...VeeGee coming off a bit odd.  Trying to decide if a suspect kind of odd or odd kind of odd. 
Still mulling Haschel over....didn't care for vijay's Samx vote.

Page 4:

So this page has a lot of confusing posts that have me wondering how many people don't have English as their first language.  This isn't a scum tell....but I think it is something that can impact a read.

@Klingoncelt... can you elaborate a bit on your scum reads?

@Accountant...why is Samx one of your two best options to vote?  Can you explain your town reads on gob and stoz?

Page 5:

@Accountant...can you explain your comment towards gob?  Does the comment mean you are suspicious of gobs?

I do not even understand gob's post 105.  What do you mean when you say you were referring to vijay (not vidjay btw)?

Page 6:

Not sure I understand or like Accountant's exchange with vijay (who he has been voting) wrt VeeGee.  Asking vijay to present a case and the leading the way on a VeeGee wagon immediately followed by the person he was just voting...vijay.

Still town reading Hopkirk.

Liking gob less.  Still confused as to Accountant's gob read.

Think I will need to do a Dessew ISO when this re-read is done.

Page 7:

@Accountant...you mention me a second time and ask for more posting but ignore my post just a few posts higher where I ask you a question wrt your "active lurking" accusation towards me. 

I was wondering where Haschel had gone and he makes a few good posts which improve my read on him.

Page 8:

@gob...you say VeeGee's votes are all over the place but he has only voted you...aside from a very brief misunderstanding vote on texcat.  Hardly all over the place.  As for voting with little explanation...there seems a be a lot of that going on in this game iirc.  i.e. your "all the other scummy shit" comment is pretty weak.

@gob...why haven't you made any non-RVS votes?  You don't seem to lack an opinion?

Guess I don't need to do that Dessew ISO.  But as this is Hopkirk's opinion I still will.  Though I think Hopkirk's effort has merit.

So I am caught up as of post 193.  Poor signal is keeping me from loading the other pages at this moment.  Once I have a chance to post this I will also have a chance to load the rest of the game on my phone and will read the rest of the game then.

My reads atm:

Leaning town on: Hopkirk, Haschel, texcat
TBD: Klingoncelt , stoz, Samx, SCTH, Dessew, vijay
Suspicions towards: Accountant, gob, VeeGee

VOTE: gob