Mini 1708: Mafia Café [Game Over!]

[Cheetory6]

VC1.09

Davsto

[6] - RadiantCowbells, ChaosOmega, HenryCabotLodge, The_Jester, Marvin Maganoo, havingfitz

The_Jester

[3] - free stool sample, JohnnyFarrar, Davsto

havingfitz

[1] - Jake from State Farm

Marvin Maganoo

[1] - Monkey Saint

Not Voting

[2] - A Simple Plan, TheEMC

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day One will end on (expired on 2015-08-30 19:00:00)

[Jake from State Farm]

I've got it.

Now don't go and give it to anyone else

No promises.

[havingfitz]

Monkey...you ask where I get the impression you think Davsto is lying.  I brought up your ISO to find where I got that impression and I think I got it from your point towards Marvin where you say "The claim seems bad."  On second look I do not think you were yourself saying that but rather saying it to explain your suspicions towards Marvin.  Which btw...if a claim seems bad...if one does not believe another person's claim...the person claiming by default is assumed to be lying.  Lies are more likely to come from scum than town.  So not believing a claim = the claimer is scum in most people's minds. 

But disregard my comment that you think Davsto is lying.  I retract it.

As for asking about voting a null read...I must be f'ing going crazy...I can't find that anywhere now either (in your ISO).  Someone else must have been calling Marvin a null read and I crossed wired it to you.  Retraction #2.  ffs

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Jake...your first comment in this post contradicts your last comment.  Using quotes is not an option atm (no signal as I type this up) so I'll transcribe for your edification:
Post 549 first comment - "that lost just implies jm not happy you are in the game"
Post 549 last comment - "get that grudge idea out of your head, I'm not attacking you cause you are you"

See my point derpy?  I had not even posted yet after replacing in and you exhibit negative sentiment towards me.  And we haven't played in probably close to a year (guessing).  Open your eyes to the truth...

And as for the suspicions you do claim against my predecessor...they appear to be based on nothing other than things that can be attributed to him flaking out of the game.  You should go ahead and take credit for forcing him out because of your intense pressure

And as for my L-1 vote....I'm not stressed about putting someone at L-1.  The day has gone on long enough and is stagnating IMO.  People who were posting a lot earlier have backed off due to frustration or flakage and others just have never got into the groove (ex: WTF is The EMC!!!!!!!)  It needs movement.  I would have hammered if Dav had already been at L-1, after giving people fair notice of my intent of course

Pardon all the as fors.

 

[Jake from State Farm]

Post 549 first comment - "that lost just implies jm not happy you are in the game"
Post 549 last comment - "get that grudge idea out of your head, I'm not attacking you cause you are you

no contradiction at all..

just because I am not happy you are in a game doesn't mean I am attacking you because you are you.

I WAS SCUM READING YOUR SLOT BEFORE YOU TOOK OVER.

That's a fact. You trying to say otherwise is basically just you lying.

[ChaosOmega]

This is me posting so I don't get prodded.

Jake, would you rather lynch Davsto or no-lynch?

[Jake from State Farm]

as much as I hate no lynches, a no lynch is better than possibly lynching a town doctor, even if i don't believe he is the town doctor.

[Marvin Maganoo]

I guess my pro-town vs anti-town reads rub some people the wrong way. It is really the only way I know how to read D1 with no vote logic or interactions to go off of. I must admit, I have only played one game on this site and it was a noob game. Going from there the here is like going from tee-ball the the Major leagues. I will go back and read the game to see if I can come up with anything besides Pro town vs anti town arguments.

[free stool sample]

VOTE: DAVSTO

That's the hammer, folks. Now these atrocious misrepresentations of my attitude toward the Dav wagon can cease. I've wanted Davsto lynched since page like...four. I just would have *strongly* preferred lynching him D2. If this little shit flips town, 'twill be hell to pay.

[Cheetory6]

VC1.10

Davsto

[7] - RadiantCowbells, ChaosOmega, HenryCabotLodge, The_Jester, Marvin Maganoo, havingfitz, free stool sample

The_Jester

[2] - JohnnyFarrar, Davsto

havingfitz

[1] - Jake from State Farm

Marvin Maganoo

[1] - Monkey Saint

Not Voting

[2] - A Simple Plan, TheEMC

Hammer has been reached on Davsto.
Flip coming shortly.

[ChaosOmega]

Woo.

[Cheetory6]

Davsto has been lynched.
He was

Spoiler:

a Mafia Goon.

We're gonna need a little bit to clean up all of this coffee that spilled during all of that commotion.
Please make sure you place your orders in the next 48 hours if you want to be served:
(expired on 2015-08-30 11:00:00)

[Cheetory6]

Jake from State Farm has been killed.
He was

Spoiler:

a Vanilla Townie.

Sorry your orders are a little late [please don't skimp on the tip q.q].
Would you like some sugar or cream?

VC2.00

Not Voting

[11] - A Simple Plan, ChaosOmega, free stool sample, havingfitz, HenryCabotLodge, JohnnyFarrar, MarvinMaganoo, Monkey Saint, RadiantCowbells, The_Jester, TheEMC

Day Two has begun and will end on (expired on 2015-09-13 13:00:00)
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

[ChaosOmega]

Interesting note for later if Davsto flips scum: Mentions every player except TheEMC (who hasn't posted yet, so whatever) and free stool sample.

VOTE: free stool sample

[havingfitz]

VOTE: free stool sample

[Marvin Maganoo]

In Post 466 I mentioned how I though stool was protecting his partner davsto. I still believe that to be true.

VOTE: free stool sample

[HenryCabotLodge]

Does the fact that Stool hammered Davsto mean nothing? What makes Stool a better lynch than Monkey Saint who spent most of his time trying to dissuade everyone from the Davsto lynch?

[Monkey Saint]

Does the fact that Stool hammered Davsto mean nothing? What makes Stool a better lynch than Monkey Saint who spent most of his time trying to dissuade everyone from the Davsto lynch?

I still don't get why anyone but the noobest scum would bother 'protecting' davsto. If someone who didn't vote him was scum they probably didn't do much for him, considering the scrutiny he was under.

Much more likely he was heavily bussed, hence the complete focus on davsto day one:

VOTE: RadiantCowbells He acted all day like he knew Dav was scum. I think he might not have been lying. I think he wanted Davsto dead just so his incompetent partner wouldn't accidently make any connections to him Day 2.

Also I think his 'scumhunting' day 1 is garbage. It looks to me like he did nothing but try to get Dav lynched, with little concern for actually figuring anything out.

There were definitely a lot of wishy-washy people on the dav wagon (and I suspected them at the time), but RC's overconfidence is what sticks out now that that wagon was on confirmed scum.

[JohnnyFarrar]

rip Jake. Was looking forward to building in this drinking game.

Weird pick, Jake. Not sure why scum did it.

We'll see how Bells reacts once he gets here but I don't see the 'hard bussing from the beginning' from someone with such a big ego.

Stool votes are dope, I'll probably hop on later at a moment that makes people question my motivations, but for right now I'm content to try to read people as they get back

[ChaosOmega]

[1] Does the fact that Stool hammered Davsto mean nothing? [2] What makes Stool a better lynch than Monkey Saint who spent most of his time trying to dissuade everyone from the Davsto lynch?

[1] It doesn't mean much to me. Reasoning below.

[2] Yeah, not wanting to lynch someone that flips scum doesn't look great. But with the doc claim, it's understandable that some people got skittish about wanting to lynch him. I think free stool sample's actions towards Davsto are a lot more suspicious. He votes him early on with eh reasoning, doesn't expand on it but keeps his vote there until Davsto gets to L-1 and fakeclaims. He then starts a wagon on Jester and asks why the people on the Davsto wagon aren't voting for Monkey. It reads like nothing more than trying to defuse the wagon on Davsto. The wagon stays strong, and he's at L-1 with 2 days left. The lynch looks to be inevitable at that point, so free stool sample hammers while mentioning his early suspicion of Davsto. Looks like he's just trying to gain towncred.

Monkey Saint doesn't look great from D1, but his posting reads more consistent in regards to Davsto. Yeah, he was scum and Monkey stuck with wanting to save him the whole time, but that could be town just believing their actions are right. I am suspicious of Monkey, but I'm more suspicious of free stool sample.

[free stool sample]

[1] Does the fact that Stool hammered Davsto mean nothing? [2] What makes Stool a better lynch than Monkey Saint who spent most of his time trying to dissuade everyone from the Davsto lynch?

[1] It doesn't mean much to me. Reasoning below.

[2] Yeah, not wanting to lynch someone that flips scum doesn't look great. But with the doc claim, it's understandable that some people got skittish about wanting to lynch him. I think free stool sample's actions towards Davsto are a lot more suspicious. He votes him early on with eh reasoning, doesn't expand on it but keeps his vote there until Davsto gets to L-1 and fakeclaims. He then starts a wagon on Jester and asks why the people on the Davsto wagon aren't voting for Monkey. It reads like nothing more than trying to defuse the wagon on Davsto. The wagon stays strong, and he's at L-1 with 2 days left. The lynch looks to be inevitable at that point, so free stool sample hammers while mentioning his early suspicion of Davsto. Looks like he's just trying to gain towncred.

Monkey Saint doesn't look great from D1, but his posting reads more consistent in regards to Davsto. Yeah, he was scum and Monkey stuck with wanting to save him the whole time, but that could be town just believing their actions are right. I am suspicious of Monkey, but I'm more suspicious of free stool sample.

Lotta contingencies in there ChOmega. I can outright confirm I was trying to "defuse" the wagon -- you can probably quote me several times saying this. I recommended what I think is the best play when there's a Doc claim D1, which is to put that wagon aside for the day. In 343, I quoted MonkeySaint saying exactly this, and the full rationale of my explanation (which I've been forced to rehash repeatedly) is there for you. So feel free to say that after the doc claim, I tried to defuse the wagon. Just don't make it out to be the product of any critical analysis on your part. It's just an account of what happened.

As for the Jester wagon, I didn't just "start" it out of the blue. Jester predicated his Davsto vote on the same rationale Davsto used to justify his vote on Cowbells, which suggested to me (and should suggest to you) that Jester voted Davsto at that particular time because he calculated that it was the safest time and manner of voting Dav, and not because he legitimately believed Davsto was acting like scum. Jester is still the best wagon out there.
VOTE: Jester.

As for the Monkey thing, I think you're failing to take into account that at the time, because of what we only now know to be a fakeclaim, I did not think a vote on Davsto was at all tenable, so I began digging into the Davsto wagon to see why some people were so insistent that we lynch the claimed Doc D1 despite the very obvious and very well-established reasons not to, especially when all three seemed to have other, ostensibly valid scumreads (i.e. Monkey). Just as I was described as "defending" Davsto, or trying to "defuse" his wagon, I think it's pretty easy to see why I might think that the people on the Dav wagon were being unreasonably obsessive about getting it completion. I mean really, if you're gonna figure anything out, you're gonna have to make some accusations and like Johnny pointed out and we all saw, I missed the context while I was rereading you and I readily admitted that when it was brought up. However, on the other hand, we also all saw that for his vote on Dav, Marvin Maganoo had cobbled together some kind of hybrid of Jester's emotional appeal and Davsto's own "scum-or-at-least-antitown" argument. Being that those are two completely mincing and parasitic voting strategies, and it was all supported by opportunistic timing, my scumread on Maganoo stands, and although I think Jester is the better vote, Maganoo isn't far behind for me -- I'd be willing to pursue either for D2.

ChOmega, why are you so willing to give Monkey the benefit of the doubt here ("town believing their actions are right") when he has voted for FIVE non-Davsto players & laid off Davsto completely? Wouldn't this type of behavior qualify as the type you're voting me for? (via Davsto, i.e. indirectly). It seems like you knew how you wanted to answer HCL's question, but not how to justify it.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Yo Fitz should talk more.

Chaos points on MoSa are good. Probably won't vir either of them today.

If there's any Stool vote that makes me nervous right now it's Marvin.

[JohnnyFarrar]

vir=vote

[HenryCabotLodge]

rip Jake. Was looking forward to building in this drinking game.

Weird pick, Jake. Not sure why scum did it.

We'll see how Bells reacts once he gets here but I don't see the 'hard bussing from the beginning' from someone with such a big ego.

Stool votes are dope, I'll probably hop on later at a moment that makes people question my motivations, but for right now I'm content to try to read people as they get back

Can I question your motives now? You similarly stayed off the Davsto wagon while making a vague statement about voting him later. You and FSS seem to have taken the same approach towards the Davsto question, the differences being that FSS painstakingly, if unconvincingly, tried to win people over to his plan and dropped the hammer (something you said you would do in post 430. What makes Stool worse than you?

Does the fact that Stool hammered Davsto mean nothing? What makes Stool a better lynch than Monkey Saint who spent most of his time trying to dissuade everyone from the Davsto lynch?

I still don't get why anyone but the noobest scum would bother 'protecting' davsto. If someone who didn't vote him was scum they probably didn't do much for him, considering the scrutiny he was under.

Much more likely he was heavily bussed, hence the complete focus on davsto day one:

VOTE: RadiantCowbells He acted all day like he knew Dav was scum. I think he might not have been lying. I think he wanted Davsto dead just so his incompetent partner wouldn't accidently make any connections to him Day 2.

Also I think his 'scumhunting' day 1 is garbage. It looks to me like he did nothing but try to get Dav lynched, with little concern for actually figuring anything out.

There were definitely a lot of wishy-washy people on the dav wagon (and I suspected them at the time), but RC's overconfidence is what sticks out now that that wagon was on confirmed scum.

A lot of this seems contrived. First, how can his scumhunting be garbage if he successfully identified scum? You seem to think his confidence in Davsto being scum means he had some other knowledge the rest of the town didn't have. What about the other people who were convinced Davsto was scum (myself included)? You say a lot of the votes were wishy-washy but I don't see it. Second, RC was on the Davsto wagon before it became the hottest thing in town. There was arguably just as much heat on Jester before, and at times, during the Davsto wagon that scum could attach themselves pretty easily to it. Davsto may have played poorly, but I have a hard time believing that his partner would be bussing him at such a nascent stage especially when there were other viable options.

I think people are too wedded to the bussing thing. We had two lurkers who stayed off the Davsto wagon (TheEMC and A Simple Plan). Why aren't we considering them? Look at the nightkill as well. Jake was one of the most prominent people not voting Davsto. I think it's likely he was killed because he was vocally against the Davsto wagon. As people who weren't on the Davsto wagon get eliminated, it becomes easier to assume that scum were on the wagon. I think it's just as possible that scum were hiding somewhere off of it.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Can I question your motives now? You similarly stayed off the Davsto wagon while making a vague statement about voting him later. You and FSS seem to have taken the same approach towards the Davsto question, the differences being that FSS painstakingly, if unconvincingly, tried to win people over to his plan and dropped the hammer (something you said you would do in post 430. What makes Stool worse than you?

Not much I guess. He just seems like he's lying to me. The whole "naw guys he's definitely probably lying i agree, but let's just talk about something else." thing he had going on stayed all the way to the end, whereas i was decently convinced Davsto lynch was gonna be the way the day ended. My big thing was i wanted the latecomers to catch up before the day ended.

Also I'd like to comment that garbage scum hunting finds scum sometimes. It's called luck.

[RadiantCowbells]

Monkey's entry into day 2 with a vote on me is unfathomable so I'm sticking with this.

VOTE: Monkey Saint