NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[Fro99er]

and so is Anna.

And you know how I can tell you haven't been paying attention? Because you think Anna is still an option for scum.

Also...ther'es no FUCKING WAY Mahon can be wolves with Red. NONE.

You're reads list is so bad it's obvious you are scum.

Also...wall incoming.

[Fro99er]

Ok, so in Refraction Mafia aero had this setup

13 players:
2 mafia (infrared)
2 werewolf (ultraviolet)

UV side was 1-shot bulletproof and vanilla cop
IR side was 1-shot bulletproof and neighborizer

that was to balance it out with a town consisting of 2 masons, 1 town JOAT, 1 bodyguard. Note the scum sides were balanced with each other too.


Here we have 21 players with town flips of: neighbor inspector, doctor, universal backup (doctor), cop, even night vig, and there's still clearly an odd night vig based on # of flips. how the fuck would it be 3 on 3, with only one power role for each scum faction???

Currently we have 3v3 with:
mafia: Goon and JOAT (investigative)
werewolf: Ascetic (undetectable)

my best guess is Aero has balanced this out with mafia having another power role, and werewolves having one power role and one goon left to flip. So it's likely the neighborizer is NOT town just based on the fact that town would be too powerful and scum would be underpowered and unbalanced with each other. It cannot be that the rest of wolves and mafia are filled with just goons, because that's unbalanced toward wolves with the JOAT unable to investigate the ascetic. Unless it's 3 on 2 (unlikely) or 3v3 but one of the 3 in wolves is a traitor (possible without Fire's investigative, but Fire's investigative rules that out...you'll see in a sec). But what's most probable is 3v3, where Kop is a werewolf power role to balance out the investigative, just like it was in Refraction Mafia, and there's a mafia undetectable.

Maybe Fire really did investigate Mahonster and Mah is godfather. That would explain Fire's crumb, and balance the setup.

All I know is it's impossible for Mah to be wolves (although somehow GM laughably thinks it's possible), but Mah coudl be scum, and Nos cannot be teamed with Ozgin.

It seems most plausible that Kop is werewolves with a buddy (likely GM, I would need to check Lapsa interactions with Kop so not ruling that out), and that Mah is mafia godfather.

Otherwise, it's not 3v3 and instead it's 2v3, but that means the 2 would have to be wolves and 3 would be mafia. In that case, GM is likely wolves anyway for her shitty wolves reads, or again, not ruling out Lapsa.


I for the life of me cannot see a town with:

Doc
Universal Backup (turned doc)
Cop
Neighbor inspector
Neighborizer
even vig
odd vig

with scum having:
Goon, JOAT and ???
Ascetic, ???, ???

It could either be:
Goon, JOAT, Goon
Ascetic, Goon

but that's too powerful for town still.

It could be
Goon, JOAT, unknown scum PR
Ascetic, Goon

but then it's too sided toward mafia over wolves

It could be
Goon, JOAT, undetectable
Ascetic, Goon, neighborizer

which balances with town if we take out neighborizer.


Yeah, basically, Kop is almost confscum in my mind, and GM is hard defending Kop and making impossible claims on who could be wolves by not paying attention, yet trying to say I'm not paying attention.

[Fro99er]

... wait. Is your whole case on me just associatives before flips?

No.

And...I do preflip associatives ALL THE TIME. EVERY GAME. It's a null tell for me, but a very strong scum-tell for others is when other people call me out on it. It's got a very high success rate.

[Fro99er]

I will only lynch Kop or GM today. I think the safest lynch is Kop, because I cannot see a plausible balance with neighborizer as town. It's too town sided otherwise.

GM is a good lynch as well. Mah could be mafia faction, but I'd rather pursue that idea later after we see flips, because it will help with completing setup spec more to know what's going on with Kop and GM.

[Annadog40]

Maybe we should lynch Aero?

VOTE: Aero

[Nosferatu]

Nos

is an option

I've made it clear a ridiculous number of times in my past few posts who I think is Mafia.

I assume you're implying frogger maf here.

As of right now, I think this is where I'm at.

Town:

Frogger

Townleans: Sky,

Nos

, Firebringer
idkwtfigo-leans: Kop, Lapsa
Scumleans: Anna, Quar
Scum: Mahon, Oz

ONE MORE TONIGHT
p31-35:
Town:

Nos

, T S O, ika, Shinobi

Nice consistency.

[Fro99er]

Yeah...I went from the most town, to the most scum by GM. And that was only AFTER I made that post about Kop.....

[goodmorning]

... wait. Is your whole case on me just associatives before flips?

No.

And...I do preflip associatives ALL THE TIME. EVERY GAME. It's a null tell for me, but a very strong scum-tell for others is when other people call me out on it. It's got a very high success rate.

I haven't seen you say anything but.

Who's calling you out for it?
I'm not saying it's Scum, I'm saying it's dumb.


And if you wanted to lynch me, you should have done it before situation critical. I refuse to be mislynched at this stage of the game. It's not happening.

I will only lynch Kop or GM today. I think the safest lynch is Kop, because I cannot see a plausible balance with neighborizer as town. It's too town sided otherwise.

Neighbouriser is a PR that doesn't do shit to help anyone. It has minor negative utility for Town. It has variable utility for Scum but is 99% likely useless.
It definitely wouldn't balance as a Scum role in this game, because there's no role so comparatively weak for it to balance with on the other team.

Nice consistency.

1. Scum are far more likely to be consistent than Town are; it's easier.
2. There've been nearly 100 pages since I last had a strong townread on you. There's been a Mafia flip & Investigative outing since the last time I had a strong townread on Frogger.

Good try!

Yeah...I went from the most town, to the most scum by GM. And that was only AFTER I made that post about Kop.....

Because it was a pretty terrible post!
See also: Oz stuff I've been saying recently.

[Fro99er]

I'm not saying it's Scum, I'm saying it's dumb.

Don't care. Scum always tells me it's dumb. I do it every game anyway. Not gonna stop.

[Fro99er]

It has variable utility for Scum but is 99% likely useless.

This is factually wrong. It is a FACT that people tend to townread neighborizers.

18 neighborizers (16 town and 2 scum) have been used in these 90 recent setups, and not a single one of them was lynched. It has HUGE scum utility to always be universally townread, because the wiki says they are usually town.

[Lapsa]

froggor, that's just faulty argument

you can't argue that scum neighborizer is of great utility cause that's like insta-conftown yet use that as a scumtell

that just proves uselessness

[Fro99er]

froggor, that's just faulty argument

you can't argue that scum neighborizer is of great utility cause that's like insta-conftown yet use that as a scumtell

that just proves uselessness

that's not my argument. My argument is it helps balance the game, and that Kop and GM are scum

who do you think is werewolf, who do you think is mafia?

[goodmorning]

If people confTown Neighbourisers just because they're Neighbourisers, then those people are engaging in extremely stupid play.

And nobody builds stupidity into the balance of their setups.

[Lapsa]

matters little if you use this 'neighborizer free towncred' argument as a scumtell for balancing setup or scumreading someone in particular.
it seems you ain't reading

who do you think is werewolf, who do you think is mafia?

yes

[Fro99er]

GM, you're gonna need to try again on who you think is Wolves, because you whiffed on two of them. Anna's ocnftown, and Mah cannot be with Red. Also, scum reading Nos is laughable.

You're also gonna need to try again on Mafia, because I'm town.

[Annadog40]

matters little if you use this 'neighborizer free towncred' argument as a scumtell for balancing setup or scumreading someone in particular.
it seems you ain't reading

who do you think is werewolf, who do you think is mafia?

yes

So yes is a Scum/Werewolf aligned player?

[Annadog40]

You're also gonna need to try again on Mafia, because I'm town.

If you were scum, you would be mafia not Werewolf.

[Nosferatu]

@frogger Why was Anna conftown? Or is that just something in your neighborhood that I can't know about.

[goodmorning]

Anna's ocnftown,

Since when?

and Mah cannot be with Red.

I disagree.

[Fro99er]

You're also gonna need to try again on Mafia, because I'm town.

If you were scum, you would be mafia not Werewolf.

Why?

Because Oz "cleared" me? Why would he risk clearing his buddy after his other buddy (TSO) got a guilty? Vig me if you need to Anna. I'm town. Just make sure we lynch actual scum today so we don't lose.

[Nosferatu]

@gm why did your read of me go from "super town" to "possible scum"? My posts haven't changed much content wise, albeit the snark has been diminished.

[Fro99er]

Anna's ocnftown,

Since when?

Since she claimed vig to me and Sky and suddenly BOTH sky and town suddenly stopped wanting to lynch Anna. It's been quite obvious and I've been hinting we still have an odd night vig. She's not getting lynched today, and this will almost surely be her last odd night vig, so I don't mind outing it now. We know she'll get her kill tonight.

[Fro99er]

and Mah cannot be with Red.

I disagree.[/quote]
Give me reasons why.

Also who is Mah's werewolf buddy since Anna is conftown?

[Fro99er]

Fucked up quote there. GM - tell me why Mah can be Red's buddy. Specific examples.

And who would be his other werewolf buddy assuming 3 werewolf?

[Nosferatu]

If she's an odd night vig, why haven't there been three kills other than on the first night?