Mini 1714: Justified Season 2 Mafia (Endgame)

[Shinobi]

Quilford, !Varsoon's posting has just lacked town motivation. It's felt like he's been more focused on appearance and pacifying players than he has been on really finding scum. His posting regarding his read on me, and the way his stances have changed on me over time have not felt fluid or natural, but forced.

This is what I mean by his intent and his tone. It's really not that hard to see if you read his posting.

I don't really think any of this is true. You keep implying he's scummier than I think he is but I don't really see the crux of whatever argument that you keep trying to make.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you say you "don't think any of it is true" but I question whether you've actually read through his posts with this in mind.

[catboi]

Re-read my own post from last night and realized I might not have been totally clear, so I'll go to direct quote:

Now, how much content have you produced without me or someone else haranguing you into it? You want a scum list from me? Ask for one. Pressure someone. Make a goddamn play without being asked to first.

I'm gonna say I've produced more content than PC
So I was gonna give my top three reads and then I realized I literally barely made any reads the whole game (there was the 2 I was most interested in but I skimmed a ton when looking through)
So I'm just gonna give a whole reads list
!Varsoon: null I can't really read this guy at all :/ Like none of his stuff seems towny and none scummy...
Dwlee: slight town lean Once again I suck at reading But this guys seems sorta town from the ISO.

Shinobi: Town lean He's playing a lot like I played in previous games.

Catboi: slight town lean I sort of like what he's saying

Quilford: Town lean Has some of the best logic I've seen through the game

Scorpius: slight scum lean Mostly near the beginning he seemed awfully happy to bring up stuff completely unrelated.
popsofctown: scum lean Seems to have a lot of dissonance, and didn't really make much actual content (oh man, hypocrisy) until about 200 posts in
chamber: Slight scum lean You guys bothering shinobi for all the questions? Well chamber mixes that with some fake content! and a small bit of real content too
Untrod Tripod: Looking over it again, alot of the things I found scummy where really just theory opinions I disagreed with. Still not town though.
Xtoxm: scum Let's describe his 9 posts! Iso 0 and 1: RVS iso 2: Saying people are worth looking at without actually saying much about them iso 3 a non-absolute disagreement to chambers reads iso 4: Finally explains his pops vote after being asked. iso 5 asks a couple of questions to me 6 he thinks vinkah scumslipped without acting on it 7 and 8 he votes and unvotes a player without saying almost anything about them.
Vinkah: town Nothing like his play in mafiascum Upick. You can clearly tell he's just being townier in this game
Lambdelta: Leaning town I'm really liking her aggressive playstyle

parts I'm concerned with are bolded.

Quilford's ISO to that point goes up to ISO #17. In that span of time, the majority of his posting is spent pushing a case on Shinobi. The only other thing he elaborates on is briefly defending Yimmy. He says NotVarsoon is town, but there's no explanation there so that certainly isn't going to count as part of his logic.

I don't remotely see how it's plausible for a player who's making a genuine evaluation to say at that point in time that they liked Quilford's logic, but also that they townread shinobi. It makes absolutely no sense. What part of Quilford's logic did he like? The part where Quil townread him? It just seems completely implausible that this came from a legitimate thought process.

[Shinobi]

you say you "don't think any of it is true" but I question whether you've actually read through his posts with this in mind.

I've read his posts.
I don't see the crux of the argument you're trying to make.
Why don't you spell it out for me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you say you "don't think any of it is true" but I question whether you've actually read through his posts with this in mind.

I've read his posts.
I don't see the crux of the argument you're trying to make.
Why don't you spell it out for me?

...............


I'm not doing the fucking work for you dude. I've explained myself. Use what I've written and fucking read his posts again or fucking get out of my way (and maybe this game.)

[Quilford]

The implication here is you think she might be outright mailing it in as scum which would also be fairly strange, I think.

No, like you said, it was a long time between posts. Because scum aren't thinking about the game, their reads tend to be much more discontinuous—there's no natural flow when they reassess one of their reads from scum to town. I think as scum LLD could have just forgotten she attacked you in the first place, something I think town don't do.

[Dwlee99]

That quote is actually so true. I played this mini-mafia ("mini" being 13 players, it's mini to us, ok?) where someone lurked and acted scummy all day. We were going to lynch someone but at the deadline the person we were going to lynch (he flipped scum fyi) made a good defense and we ended up lynching the lurker. Once the wagon formed he claimed doc right as the deadline was hit. He was doc..
UNVOTE: Pops
Yea, no thanks.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have fucking Eidetic memory you numb nut.

I've talked about this is past games.

Are you seriously trying to fucking say "lol she forgot" as a fucking excuse?

Right after I fuckin EXPLAINED WHY I SAID WHAT I SAID?

I cannot tell if you're fucking stunned or deliberately trying to be unhelpful.

[Quilford]

Lol LLD you're asking other people to gather your evidence for you. If you're going to assert what you're saying about !Varsoon's posting in #721, you need to actually provide evidence in the form of posts that support your theory. Nobody else can do it for you because your thought process is uniquely your own. I would be so much more likely to stop voting you if you actually pointed out specific things that !Varsoon is saying rather than just making characterisations of them and not supporting them with any evidence.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Lol LLD you're asking other people to gather your evidence for you. If you're going to assert what you're saying about !Varsoon's posting in #721, you need to actually provide evidence in the form of posts that support your theory. Nobody else can do it for you because your thought process is uniquely your own. I would be so much more likely to stop voting you if you actually pointed out specific things that !Varsoon is saying rather than just making characterisations of them and not supporting them with any evidence.

Eat a dick.

[catboi]

That quote is actually so true. I played this mini-mafia ("mini" being 13 players, it's mini to us, ok?) where someone lurked and acted scummy all day. We were going to lynch someone but at the deadline the person we were going to lynch (he flipped scum fyi) made a good defense and we ended up lynching the lurker. Once the wagon formed he claimed doc right as the deadline was hit. He was doc..
UNVOTE: Pops
Yea, no thanks.

I mean that's really just an emotional appeal you shouldn't really take as meaningful

but if you're going anywhere you should be starting a flashwagon on Yimmy

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm sorry I didn't even read the rest of that post when I read "you're asking other people to gather your evidence for you".

I'll tell you what. If I flip town, will you vote yourself tomorrow? Will everyone agree to lynch you?

Because if you're town, then this game can be on you, and I can call you out for being fucking moron post game.

And nothing would give me more pleasure.

[Quilford]

Lol LLD you're asking other people to gather your evidence for you. If you're going to assert what you're saying about !Varsoon's posting in #721, you need to actually provide evidence in the form of posts that support your theory. Nobody else can do it for you because your thought process is uniquely your own. I would be so much more likely to stop voting you if you actually pointed out specific things that !Varsoon is saying rather than just making characterisations of them and not supporting them with any evidence.

Eat a dick.

I don't understand why you're so upset about having to actually provide evidence for the things you're asserting

Like

That's just a skill set you need if you're gonna persuade people of things in real life

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Am I in a fucking job interview?

Is this a fucking dissertation?

No, I'm fucking playing a mafia game, a social deception game based on social interactions.

His social interactions and intent behind his actions lead me to believe he is scum.

What you are asking me to do is easily faked by scum. Easily. I've done it a million times before.

Intent can't be faked, reads and reasons can.

[Quilford]

Yeah, so all I'm asking you to do is tell me what specific social interactions and what specific intent? Like, what specific posts contain these social interactions and intent? Because less and less people are seeing it your way, so just yelling that you're right instead of explaining why isn't gonna get you anywhere

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah, so all I'm asking you to do is tell me what specific social interactions and what specific intent? Like, what specific posts contain these social interactions and intent? Because less and less people are seeing it your way, so just yelling that you're right instead of explaining why isn't gonna get you anywhere

I've explained to you what I've seen through the entirety of his posts that I have read.

If you're looking for me to post a quote wall for you to try and dissect, you will be waiting a long time. Not only do I not have time for that tripe, it only creates fake content that scum can use to try and fool town.

Read the posts yourself, keep my points in mind, and fucking make your own conclusions.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And then come back to me and if you disagree tell me why.

Then I'll be able to read you based on how you interact with me in a discussion, not with some fucking "bullet for bullets" "points for points" shit that doesn't even mean anything.

[Shinobi]

you say you "don't think any of it is true" but I question whether you've actually read through his posts with this in mind.

I've read his posts.
I don't see the crux of the argument you're trying to make.
Why don't you spell it out for me?

...............


I'm not doing the fucking work for you dude. I've explained myself. Use what I've written and fucking read his posts again or fucking get out of my way (and maybe this game.)

At this point you're cruising for a plynch over anything else.

[Untrod Tripod]

ftr he already heard me give basically the same arguments, said "yeah okay good jorb I think you're town" and is plowing right ahead with trying to derail the wagon against you

[Quilford]

And you cannot fake reasoning as scum. The whole premise of mafia means that scum are much, much worse at giving reasoning for their reads, because they already know whether or not they're correct.

Intent is a narrative you read into someone else's posting and it's not something you can support with evidence.

[Quilford]

ftr he already heard me give basically the same arguments, said "yeah okay good jorb I think you're town" and is plowing right ahead with trying to derail the wagon against you

Nope, you actually talked about specific rhetorical techniques that you thought !Varsoon was using. LLD is just waving around the buzzwords of 'tone' and 'intent' and asking people to do the work for her.

[Untrod Tripod]

And you cannot fake reasoning as scum. The whole premise of mafia means that scum are much, much worse at giving reasoning for their reads, because they already know whether or not they're correct.

Intent is a narrative you read into someone else's posting and it's not something you can support with evidence.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

mafia can't fake reasoning? mafia can't reverse engineer reads? is that a fucking joke?

jesus christ, !Varsoon must have a really powerful role for you to be this blatant

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you say you "don't think any of it is true" but I question whether you've actually read through his posts with this in mind.

I've read his posts.
I don't see the crux of the argument you're trying to make.
Why don't you spell it out for me?

...............


I'm not doing the fucking work for you dude. I've explained myself. Use what I've written and fucking read his posts again or fucking get out of my way (and maybe this game.)

At this point you're cruising for a plynch over anything else.

If you are seriously considering a policy lynch at this point in the day, given that we really need our lynch for today to give us the maximum amount of information, you might actually be scum....

hmmmm

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And you cannot fake reasoning as scum. The whole premise of mafia means that scum are much, much worse at giving reasoning for their reads, because they already know whether or not they're correct.

Intent is a narrative you read into someone else's posting and it's not something you can support with evidence.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

mafia can't fake reasoning? mafia can't reverse engineer reads? is that a fucking joke?

jesus christ, !Varsoon must have a really powerful role for you to be this blatant

His post literally had my jaw drop. Seriously. Someone who has been playing mafia for this long that seriously believes this?

I'm not sure I believe that.

[Shinobi]

ftr he already heard me give basically the same arguments, said "yeah okay good jorb I think you're town" and is plowing right ahead with trying to derail the wagon against you

Nope, you actually talked about specific rhetorical techniques that you thought !Varsoon was using. LLD is just waving around the buzzwords of 'tone' and 'intent' and asking people to do the work for her.

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

you say you "don't think any of it is true" but I question whether you've actually read through his posts with this in mind.

I've read his posts.
I don't see the crux of the argument you're trying to make.
Why don't you spell it out for me?

...............


I'm not doing the fucking work for you dude. I've explained myself. Use what I've written and fucking read his posts again or fucking get out of my way (and maybe this game.)

At this point you're cruising for a plynch over anything else.

If you are seriously considering a policy lynch at this point in the day, given that we really need our lynch for today to give us the maximum amount of information, you might actually be scum....

hmmmm

rofl