Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Dierfire
For not lynching Yuriko in my newbie game.

[Dwlee99]

Town read on BBT for being BBT. lol
I think implosion plays like I do offsite with tunnelling people and getting reads so I am town reading them, too.

[Dwlee99]

I'm waiting for someone to bring up meta so we can all stare at BBT's signature.

[Dwlee99]

Yea, I actually am. Why would I say I am if I wasn't? I mean, my town read on you was kind of a joke but it still stands as a gut feeling.

[Dwlee99]

You asked about my town read on you and implosion. The first part was more about implosion and the second part is about you. Even though it was "Kind of a joke" I'm still town reading you. (especially for your last few posts)

[Dwlee99]

How can there be an incorrect RVS wagon?

[Dwlee99]

Okay, we're out of RVS. Fine.
But let's look at Garmr's ISO -
21 - RVS
24 - "Honestly don't see anything scummy so far"

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town.

So saying he doesn't see anything scummy is a scum tell? Okay, totally.

[Dwlee99]

My town read on implosion was serious, my one on BBT was more joke-y but based on his posts afterwards I'm town reading him. I don't understand how that makes me scum? You say that you don't like early town or scum reads but you don't flag implosion as suspicious although he did it even earlier than me.

I also wanted to flag Hieirama's reaction.

I feel like implosion was joking about a 'Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam'

- but Hieirama's jumps in acting very serious/defensive:

Looks like a Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam. Now if only we can figure out the third...

You can build a scumread based on one post?

Dwlee99

gives out two (serious?)

easy/early town-reads (I do not like people giving out easy/early town/scum reads):

You asked about my town read on you and implosion

. The first part was more about implosion and the second part is about you. Even though it was "Kind of a joke" I'm still town reading you. (especially for your last few posts)

UNVOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
VOTE: Dwlee99

Yea, no.
UNVOTE: Dierfire
VOTE: Keyser

Okay, we're out of RVS. Fine.
But let's look at Garmr's ISO -
21 - RVS
24 - "Honestly don't see anything scummy so far"

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town.

So saying he doesn't see anything scummy is a scum tell? Okay, totally.

Why did you clip out the rest of what he said, about why it's a scumtell to him?

(Even though frankly, I don't agree with mykonian's premise... I don't think the phrase "to be honest" or its derivatives is alignment indicative, I've seen townies use the phrase and I tend to use it too out of habit.)

I clipped it out because the rest was gibberish about him saying the word "honestly". He did say some stuff about it being him buddying and "Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning." but it's a weak case that relies on saying the word "honestly" being a scum tell, which, like you said, isn't one.

[Dwlee99]

Now now, you shouldn't make "easy random town/scum reads".

[Dwlee99]

we could be out of rvs right now.

You know, why not.

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary. Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning. Buddying and at the same time showing off his mindset is scummy.

So dwlee, are we out of rvs?

So saying he doesn't see anything scummy is a scum tell? Okay, totally.

how is that your conclusion after that post. It's not even close to the message I put up there.


Think that took 2 pages to make everything dwlee says worthless for me from now on. If your first response to a post is to see how you can pull it out of context and make a sarcastic remark, I don't have a clue what you are doing here. Meanwhile his vote is a hard omgus. Fun one. First makes him worthless town, second worthless scum. Hope he's not on my team.

Lol, k.
Your reasons for him being scum were the word "honestly" and his seeing nothing scummy. So you were saying that not seeing anything scummy is a scum tell. That's what you were saying. Don't act like your entire read was greater than that, cause it wasn't. My conclusion of your post is exactly what your post is, a weak case held up by the assumption that saying the word "honestly" is a scum tell. Second, thanks for calling me worthless. Totally appreciate it. Third, my vote isn't even an OMGUS. He says I'm being scummy for something implosion did and not even questioning implosion. Inconsistency is a scum tell.

[Dwlee99]

oh god it can read.

was that so hard, dear?

and gosh, a page 2 case when the biggest thing that happened otherwise are your omgus (which it was, shut up) and herr's laughing off isn't lynch worthy. Call the papers.

It's funny how in a GAME you resort to calling someone "It". Good job dude.

I clipped it out because the rest was gibberish about him saying the word "honestly". He did say some stuff about it being him buddying and "Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning." but it's a weak case that relies on saying the word "honestly" being a scum tell, which, like you said, isn't one.

Yeah, but your original quote ("So saying he doesn't see anything scummy is a scum tell? Okay, totally") ignored the part of his post where he thought Garmr was scummy for buddying someone (pretty sure that someone was me). Not sure why you felt you had to manipulate mykonian's 37 to get your point across.

pedit: What's with the caustic aggression coming out of mykonian? Calling another player after a very short back-and-forth "either a worthless town or a worthless scum", and then dehumanizing him by calling him "it"... No clue if this is a matter of playstyle or if he's getting super bent out of shape because his 37 was jumped on, or what. But it doesn't seem like myko is working to get past it, either way. Just seems to be instigating a fight with Dwlee. Also, noted that mykonian is ignoring Dwlee's reasoning for voting Soze and trying to insist it's simply OMGUS.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian

I don't understand how it's manipulating. I was just quoting the specific part that I wanted to respond to. Like right here I wanted to cut out the last half of your post because it's not what I'm responding to. But I didn't just so I don't bother people when I don't need to.

Not sure why you felt you had to manipulate mykonian's 37 to get your point across.

Because I don't take kindly to this. Nor do I think should you.

You are the 3rd to comment on it by now (so it's pretty obvious), and manipulating isn't seen favorably anyway. What does that say about how dwlee thinks about the people in this game that he thinks he can get that past us?


For one I would have enjoyed a fair discussion. And secondly I am not very pleased by the implication that dwlee, who doesn't look like the sharpest knife in the drawer, thinks he's the smartest of the bunch here.

Already addressed the manipulation part and now you just insult my intelligence and are trying to make me look like a jerk by saying I "think I'm the smartest of the bunch here." when I obviously don't. You're the one manipulating people and acting like you're the smartest person in the world.

[Dwlee99]

You're so cool mykonian~

[Dwlee99]

Is being an asshole a scum tell? Can someone tell me?

[Dwlee99]

\

Spoiler: Dwlee99

(Positive vibes)

One small thing caught my concern:
The quick town reads.
They're joking/gut reads… I'm guessing you decided to share them, mainly just to joke a little? I'm not sure why else you would post them with no relevant evidence.
It can be looked at as fluffy.
Perhaps that's why Keyser may have suspected you.

It's all probably just RVS floof, I hope.

Then you said that they were serious… and I kind of got confused. To… what degree of seriousness?

I like really all his others posts. You have good arguments here and all, just that incident I'm not sure about!

So my read on implosion was 100% serious and I think he is town (I cited the reason of his aggressiveness and getting the game out of RVS)
The read on BBT was a joke but the posts that he made afterwards give me a town vibe from him.

I don't understand how it's manipulating. I was just quoting the specific part that I wanted to respond to. Like right here I wanted to cut out the last half of your post because it's not what I'm responding to. But I didn't just so I don't bother people when I don't need to.

Ok yeah fair enough, I suppose it's not manipulation to crop out the stuff about the "buddying," since it was a separate thought and not necessarily relevant. But I still think that the first sentence (the one you quoted) was leading into mykonian's argument:

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary.

The manipulation is you implying the scum tell was "saying he doesn't see anything scummy," where myko was arguing it was a scum tell for the way he used the term "honestly" and what it could mean psychologically. You clipped myko's quote in a way that didn't represent what he was trying to say, and then sarcastically dismissed it. That is manipulation.

I've made my thoughts fairly clear regarding the "honestly" thing. So I quoted the other part of the argument to tackle that point. RIP my organization by cropping. (Still did it in the quote above hahah git rikt)

[Dwlee99]

So many people have weak reasons for being on the mykonian wagon.

[Dwlee99]

To 88: Garmr, myko is null for me atm. He's playing aggressively and stimulating conversation but his reads are stretched.
To 89: Thought I'd lay a BBT town read out there because it would generate something to talk about (which it did) and allow me to get reads. The implosion read was used to talk outloud and make people not just dismiss my post as "random reads that make no sense" which caused people to comment seriously on it.

[Dwlee99]

If I don't attack the wagon when are people gonna actually give more reasons for it than stretched reads? The wagon just allows scum to hide by joining under the same reasons as everyone else. I need more from people than "Reads are stretched" when joining a wagon. I could also sit here and argue that stretching reads can be town trying to figure out the game.

[Dwlee99]

96: I don't know if a couple of times is 'constantly'. I don't think I need to apply pressure on Myko because there's already a wagon formed on him. I need to apply pressure elsewhere including on the wagon itself because everyone's on it for one reason.
99: Myko already answered that iirc. Actually I think someone said "Myko thinks they are buddying me" and explained it.

[Dwlee99]

Keyser, the accusation wasn't forced at all.

[Dwlee99]

Should I go back to lurking or?

you are a born winner.

Heh.

I made that readlist, you're right, to contribute a little bit more than a one-liner. I'm not sure how that's scum-oriented?
I'm not being helpful if all my opinions are all jumbled in my head. So why not share it, even if it's minor?
This is the fastest pace game I've played in. I do hate missing the boat.

If I don't attack the wagon when are people gonna actually give more reasons for it than stretched reads? The wagon just allows scum to hide by joining under the same reasons as everyone else. I need more from people than "Reads are stretched" when joining a wagon. I could also sit here and argue that stretching reads can be town trying to figure out the game.

I think stretched reads are the best evidence people have at this point...

My point exactly. It can be seen as trying to figure out the game so it's not that scummy, imo. That's why myko is null for me and I attacked the wagon.

Dwlee is probably town. BBT is more weakly town. myko's 37 is sort of just a common phenomenon on this site. I've made pretty much an identical post before.

Hiei is very slightly scummy for their opening post and subsequent reaction, but it's pretty insignificant. I still need to read page 2 more closely because I have to go to class in 1 minute but for now I'm actually going to ask for this wagon:

Unvote

VOTE: Felissan
"I just don't get a townvibe from you" after a vote feels like appeasement + a psychological desire not to commit to the read. I haven't actually read the rest of the post. I will when I can.

Why did you choose Felissan over Hieirama? Also, why did you mention that Hiei is slightly scummy but it's 'insignifcant', if it's insignificant, why mention it?

I don't see how this matters.

You don't see how it matters that you have reasons for scum reading someone but would rather stick to your RVS vote?

Are you serious?

What is the basis for all these DWL townreads I'm seeing (BBT, implosion, Dierfire)? Could someone fill me in?

As annoying as it is, and it ruins my sig, it's based on meta. Look at Dwlee's posting in this newbie game - compare it to this game. They are worlds apart, he was awkward, couldn't scum hunt and none of his posting felt town at all. In fact, he was so bad at being scum that I started to think he was lost town.

This is town Dwlee.

honestly I use that word a lot it features in all my recent games. Also what's this bs about calling someone town. I said I don't see anything scummy yet. You seem like your reaching so have my vote.

VOTE: mycorana

He's reaching...on page 2? No way...

VOTE: Garmr

I'm still ashamed about that. >.<

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Garmr

Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

What was the point of saying this? Just to get it out there, I would be scumreading this even if the word "honestly" weren't included because that's a semantics thing. But chiming in RVS to say you don't see anything scummy when nobody prompted you is scummy.

Vote in 72 was OMGUS-y. And yeah, the case was reachy, but it's Page 2 so I'm not concerned about it. This argument happens every early Day 1--someone breaks RVS by making a reachy case, other people criticize it for being reachy, lots of arguing over whether or not it was reachy and whether or not that's okay for RVS, etc, etc, etc. And in this case I'm taking the side of the person who made the reachy case.

He hasn't posted a scumread based on anything other than OMGUS.

And yet in my first noobie I get called scum for saying something was OMGUS that didn't involve a vote. I still don't understand..

[Dwlee99]

Look at the votes on my wagon:

UNVOTE: Dierfire
VOTE: Keyser

OMGUS much...? Does Dwlee99 actually scum-read me?

DWL is Town and easy to lynch. Players voting DWL are therefore more likely to be Mafia.

UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Keyser

I feel this is a weak reason. I did not like how that sentence was constructed. "easy to lynch" - what part of Dwlee99's play is

easy to lynch

? His vote on me had a logical fallacy feeling to it.

"Player A is easy to lynch, therefore Player B who voted for Player A is more likely scum"

Still waiting for Dierfire's comments.

For the last stinkin' time, it wasn't OMGUS. I did not vote you for voting me. I voted you for being inconsistent. You took out my entire argument as to why you are scum. This is manipulation. And yet no one calls you out on it for some odd reason. Here's my whole post. Do you feel the need to remove my entire argument out just to get your point across?

My town read on implosion was serious, my one on BBT was more joke-y but based on his posts afterwards I'm town reading him. I don't understand how that makes me scum?

You say that you don't like early town or scum reads but you don't flag implosion as suspicious although he did it even earlier than me.

I also wanted to flag Hieirama's reaction.

I feel like implosion was joking about a 'Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam'

- but Hieirama's jumps in acting very serious/defensive:

Looks like a Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam. Now if only we can figure out the third...

You can build a scumread based on one post?

Dwlee99

gives out two (serious?)

easy/early town-reads

(I do not like people giving out easy/early town/scum reads)

:

You asked about my town read on you and implosion

. The first part was more about implosion and the second part is about you. Even though it was "Kind of a joke" I'm still town reading you. (especially for your last few posts)

UNVOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
VOTE: Dwlee99

Yea, no.
UNVOTE: Dierfire
VOTE: Keyser

Okay, we're out of RVS. Fine.
But let's look at Garmr's ISO -
21 - RVS
24 - "Honestly don't see anything scummy so far"

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town.

So saying he doesn't see anything scummy is a scum tell? Okay, totally.

Why did you clip out the rest of what he said, about why it's a scumtell to him?

(Even though frankly, I don't agree with mykonian's premise... I don't think the phrase "to be honest" or its derivatives is alignment indicative, I've seen townies use the phrase and I tend to use it too out of habit.)

I clipped it out because the rest was gibberish about him saying the word "honestly". He did say some stuff about it being him buddying and "Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning." but it's a weak case that relies on saying the word "honestly" being a scum tell, which, like you said, isn't one.

[Dwlee99]

He clearly manipulated my post. .-.

[Dwlee99]

Why does no one else think Keyser is scum? He manipulated my post and completely ignored all of my reasoning and just said "OMGUS".

[Dwlee99]

Still doesn't explain the manipulation of my post, keyser.

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE: Keyser
Not sure where to put my vote on atm. I think Hiei's posts aren't the best but I'm not getting scum vibes from it. They seem like they're trying to fgure out the game.

[Dwlee99]

Why the heck would you claim bulletproof townie when no one had even commented on you being a power role?

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Garmr

[Dwlee99]

And I'm gonna be pretty mad if he gets lynched. I'm pretty rarely mad when townies who I townread are lynched but this is really really obvious. The scum motivation for making that claim by Garmr is to try to dissuade the growing suspicion towards him. There's no way that he would think claiming bulletproof townie would be a good way to do that as scum on page 8. He'd also have much less of a reason to be so emotionally charged as scum unless he's faking the emotion which is possible but seems very unlikely to me.

"Why aren't you dying?" - Bulletproof townie.
"Why shouldn't we lynch you?" - I'm important cause I'm bulletproof.

And on my home site there was someone who faked this huge emotional outburst and acted super pissed to get a win. Emotions can be faked over the internet.

[Dwlee99]

And I'm gonna be pretty mad if he gets lynched. I'm pretty rarely mad when townies who I townread are lynched but this is really really obvious. The scum motivation for making that claim by Garmr is to try to dissuade the growing suspicion towards him. There's no way that he would think claiming bulletproof townie would be a good way to do that as scum on page 8. He'd also have much less of a reason to be so emotionally charged as scum unless he's faking the emotion which is possible but seems very unlikely to me.

"Why aren't you dying?" - Bulletproof townie.
"Why shouldn't we lynch you?" - I'm important cause I'm bulletproof.

And on my home site there was someone who faked this huge emotional outburst and acted super pissed to get a win. Emotions can be faked over the internet.

Don't get the first half of this post. As for the second half every case of something like this is different; my read of Garmr's emotional outburst as genuine is informed by a lot of things: his play so far, how early it is in the game, mykonian's general attitude, the way that Garmr posted it, my pre-existing townread on Garmr (which, by the way, is bolstered by the claim because of the nature of what I was townreading him for).

The first half of my post was explaining why it's beneficial for him to claim bulletproof townie as scum.
I don't understand how straight out claiming a power role without it being necessary is townie.

[Dwlee99]

And I'm gonna be pretty mad if he gets lynched. I'm pretty rarely mad when townies who I townread are lynched but this is really really obvious. The scum motivation for making that claim by Garmr is to try to dissuade the growing suspicion towards him. There's no way that he would think claiming bulletproof townie would be a good way to do that as scum on page 8. He'd also have much less of a reason to be so emotionally charged as scum unless he's faking the emotion which is possible but seems very unlikely to me.

"Why aren't you dying?" - Bulletproof townie.
"Why shouldn't we lynch you?" - I'm important cause I'm bulletproof.

And on my home site there was someone who faked this huge emotional outburst and acted super pissed to get a win. Emotions can be faked over the internet.

Don't get the first half of this post. As for the second half every case of something like this is different; my read of Garmr's emotional outburst as genuine is informed by a lot of things: his play so far, how early it is in the game, mykonian's general attitude, the way that Garmr posted it, my pre-existing townread on Garmr (which, by the way, is bolstered by the claim because of the nature of what I was townreading him for).

The first half of my post was explaining why it's beneficial for him to claim bulletproof townie as scum.
I don't understand how straight out claiming a power role without it being necessary is townie.

There's an important distinction between town and pro-town. Claiming bp townie here is distinctively not pro-town but if the town motivation for it is more likely than the scum motivation it should still be viewed as a towntell and I think that's the case. And as for your quotes... giving an excuse for not dying could be a reason to claim bulletproof townie (although I'd contend not this early). But the second...

"Why shouldn't we lynch you?" - I'm important cause I'm bulletproof.

Did you read his post? In the same post that he claimed bulletproof he explicitly said he didn't mind being lynched because he didn't see bp townie as an important role.

To me claiming a power role without prompt is scummy. Apparently we disagree on that, though.
And not minding being lynched isn't a town tell. People don't seem to understand scum can fake emotions and frustration.

[Dwlee99]

Garmr's ISO (12 posts):


21: RVS on BBT.
24: "Honestly don't see anything scummy so far." Most debated quote this game, I don't see it as scummy it's just a general statement scum and town make.
69: Fluff about his pet name for BBT.
72: Myko is "Reaching" according to Garmr. Votes myko for using honestly as a scum tell against him (which it's not, imo) but says he is reaching. (I feel like it's myko trying to figure out the game and not a scumtell. It's null/town lean to me)
88: Asks me if I am town reading myko.
92: Says I shouldn't be attacking the wagon and insists the stretching reads is a scum tell.
95: Still insists it's scummy. Tells me I shouldn't attack a wagon unless I "town read them for multiple reasons".
96: Says that myko's only case is the word honestly when it involves the possible buddying as well. Threat kind of thing saying "if you keep attacking me you're gonna get lynched". Says "Reading people as scum for voting you is pretty pathetic." because myko says it was about time scum joined his wagon and that his reasons for getting on were weak.
171: Claims power role.
173: "Tip look through myko's iso" in response to myko saying "Who wants to play 'Find the scum tell'"
177: Saying 'just lynch me I'm not an important power role just bulletproof townie' and says that they didn't think "anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly." when there was no pressure on him to claim which power role he was since he had claimed a power role.
178: V/LA for two days might be 'a bit more motivated' when they come back.

I don't like 96's "push my lynch and die" mentality, the insistence on myko's iso being full of scum tells (when I am thinking myko as town lean) or the claim (177).

He's a scum lean for me right now because he's posting tons of one/two-liners and nothing more as well as what I mentioned above.

And would it slow down a wagon if someone was like "I'm a bulletproof role cop that has 100 investigations a night as well as can shoot the same night as my investigations after I get them, but don't worry I'm not important." Bulletproof townie is an important role. If there's a doctor you can easily prevent a mislynch turning into scum win on mylo by the doctor self-healing and the bp not being able to be killed.

[Dwlee99]

Yay, people who agree it was stupid to claim. I felt he need to make that post to get my thoughts organized. And my analysis isn't just bad, there's not much to talk about in his ISO. He hasn't done any real scum hunting, the most he's done with that is vote myko because of stretched reads.

[Dwlee99]

51 posts from myko, 4 from lalendra. Just to put this into perspective. Lalendra also has cited myko's 'stretched reads' as scummy.
"This is reaching and he has yet to respond to multiple people questioning it.

VOTE: mykonian"
Lack of real posts from Lalendra except for this one. And I disagree with the reasoning in this except myko not really responding to people questioning it. (which I don't remember noting at the time)

[Dwlee99]

You haven't done any scum hunting, though. That's my point.

[Dwlee99]

Okay lalendra, here's some questions:

What's your opinion on Garmr's play?

What's your opinion on the claim?

What do you think of Keyser? (Yes I'm still on that)

[Dwlee99]

My post wasn't IIoA. I had as much analysis as was completely possible for those 12 posts. And my main message was clear, they haven't scum hunted at all (except for a little on myko, kinda?) and their posts weren't very townie. I'd accept the level of scumminess they are displaying if they had actually done scumhunting.

[Dwlee99]

My post wasn't IIoA. I had as much analysis as was completely possible for those 12 posts. And my main message was clear, they haven't scum hunted at all (except for a little on myko, kinda?) and their posts weren't very townie. I'd accept the level of scumminess they are displaying if they had actually done scumhunting.

Still... Try not to include too much obvious information that doesn't contribute to your read. It's making the post a little congested, and it unnecessarily floods my head with unneeded info.

I'm not a patient man so a messy quote it'll be.

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

It would've been better if you haven't claimed.
Even if you're actually BP it was a really anti-town move.
Going anti-town just because of frustration really isn't a nice thing to do.

Ok. Not sure why you assume he's town in this. You are. Analysis is good, assumption seems off. Could be a scumtell but it's really blatant in that case. You could talk more about this.

The popular

In post 24, Garmr wrote:
Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

wins my interest. Not really the quote itself, but on how much attention its given.

OK. So what interests you about it? Do you think the attention it's getting is revealing any information? Are any of your reads from 76 developing as a result?

I thought the stretchy attention from Myko was just to get the game going, but it seems serious now…
I could see this as myko and two other scum building up from a small unimportant remark from Garmr, and the stress perhaps caused him to stress out and make that claim.

So if we Lynch Garmr, in my eyes its more of a policy Lynch…

3 scum just pushing a townie doesn't happen. Sometimes 3 end up in the same place, but organised pushes are near unheard of, and hard to organise. This makes me think you haven't exactly played all that much mafia, and even then I'm not sure why you take this explanation over any other simpler one. Why does it take an entire conspiracy to lynch someone who hasn't posted any analysis, has posted several defensive posts, and has made a dodgy claim (as you yourself so neatly explained).

I do have a policy of lynching people I think scum. I don't know why you call it a policy lynch, or construe it as if garmr's only scumtell has been his post on the first page. This hasn't been the case.

This… is my 4th Fourm Mafia game… yeah.

I'm bringing in the possibility of Garmr just being an anti-town, town.
I personally see this as the more likley scenario.

Yh, I can understand that.
If Garmr is Town then I have a strong feeling that the wagon was scum-driven, mainly because if how petty the original reason was. Could be three Mafia, could be one.

I use "policy lynch" incorrectly maybe? The way I see it is: This player's posts don't seem to have scum Motivation, but they're being toxic to the Town wincon. They're the best lynch until someone proves to be genuinely scummy.

It contributes to my read because it shows Garmr not doing anything townie and posting some fluff.

[Dwlee99]

I dislike policy lynches, because even if someone's being anti-town, they're still a town player who is alive. I'd rather garmr replaced out and we got someone else who was worth something, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

I'm on mobile at the moment but I'll make a more extensive post when my computer decides to turn on.

P-edit: was it really necessary to quote a wall for a one-line comment?

Have you read the game?

[Dwlee99]

You're a lot of fun when you do that,
Exaggerate and... Almost manipulate?

It's the most curious thing. You assume he's town then the scumtells aren't genuine.

that's the wrong way around!

Yes I assume he's Town.

The scumtells, which scumtells? I've only mentioned "scum" and "genuine" when addressing the possibily of someone else coming forward with a scummy attitude, to whom I'll switch my vote toward.

The "scummy" or "scumtell" or whatever in my reply wasn't pointing at Garmr.

I'm not too sure how that's a "wrong-way-around".

It's cause I'm no longer editing quotes in case I accidentally remove something important from the post that relates to what I'm talking about.

[Dwlee99]

@Garmr 242: Can you explain the second sentence in your read on me? What did you mean I defended Myko when he had the best on me? What does him having the best of me mean?

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra
Never answered my questions. Says in 235 they'll make a more exstensive when their computer turns on yet it has been 13 hours since that post with no post. Should probably just FoS but idc.

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra
Never answered my questions. Says in 235 they'll make a more exstensive when their computer turns on yet it has been 13 hours since that post with no post. Should probably just FoS but idc.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, this is a vote for lurking, yes?

Kind of. They never answered my question and then promised a post but never delivered.

[Dwlee99]

Windows 10 only took a few hours to download for me.

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE: Lalendra
The list has arrived~

Back to Garmr for the reasons I was already on the wagon before I switched to Lalendra.
VOTE: Garmr

[Dwlee99]

It takes guts to stand up for players being wagoned.

No...it really doesn't.

I doubt a coward would do it.

Okay, fine, it either takes guts or it's scum who wants to gain town points.

But why would town care what other people think? Why not just defend the person you think is town?

[Dwlee99]

@Garmr 269: That post reeks of OMGUS. You're wrong on a few things there. First of all, your "gambit" was not very clear. Your gambit makes sense if you didn't decide to completely ruin the entire thing by claiming BP. But you did. Second, you say Lalendra has done no scum hunting and yet they did in the post you quoted. I liked that wall but m'kay about your opinion.

[Dwlee99]

@Garmr 269: That post reeks of OMGUS. You're wrong on a few things there. First of all, your "gambit" was not very clear. Your gambit makes sense if you didn't decide to completely ruin the entire thing by claiming BP. But you did. Second, you say Lalendra has done no scum hunting and yet they did in the post you quoted. I liked that wall but m'kay about your opinion.

[Dwlee99]

Their main scum read seems to be you. I think that they have a scum lean on Haschel as well (confirm, lalendra?) or null I think? They mentioned them couldn't tell if it was a scum or null read.
Your second scum read is better. Fellisan's post is odd, at least the first part. It makes sense to be worried that you might actually be a power role. And I disagree about you claiming early being less likely as scum. The fact that you thought of that two-shot hider claim shows the mindset you're in. This is sort of reaching but as town why would you even think of a fake claim like that.

FoS Lalendra for suddenly giving up reads on pressure regarding them. Based on your post it wasn't a PL.

[Dwlee99]

Hmm, I didn't read it as a policy lynch.
UNVOTE:
There would be no reason for a policy lynch on Garmr with how they've been playing. I don't even know right now. I liked her list but apparently I misread it. And now I don't know. I feel that Lalendra and Gamyr are an unaligned pair.. I think? But we know what the last "unaligned" pair ended up being.(@BBT & @Dierfire)

[Dwlee99]

Cause now I feel like Garmr's posts are townie and so I'm less sure of Garmr being scum. Gotta think.

[Dwlee99]

I removed my vote on Keyser cause there was no way to get a wagon on it. He's still my major scum read but if no one agrees there's no point in me being super stubborn over it and insisting to vote keyser which would just piss everyone off.
I don't know about the garmr lynch. I am doubting that read because I liked their read on lalendra (after I found out I totally misread lalendra's post)
I don't see why Lalendra would try to put a vote out and then just be like 'Oh, well, don't think I'm suspicious when he flips cause policy lynch.' This also made me doubt my read on Garmr because why would scum!lalendra make a policy lynch vote on scum!garmr?
I feel confident in this vote.
VOTE: Lalendra

[Dwlee99]

What is the scum motivation for shooting you, though?

[Dwlee99]

Why is it suddenly a policy lynch? It never was. It was for how scummy they were and the claim. I changed my mind on Garmr, too, but don't make up odd reasons like you were policy lynching them.

[Dwlee99]

Dier, can you be more clear in 323? I have trouble following it. You said if ___ flips scum ___ is scum. Can you fill in the blanks?

[Dwlee99]

I voted Lalendra to pressure them for their reads list. Unvoted when I liked their list but revoted upon learning they tried to pass it off as a policy lynch. I'm not seeing how that makes us an aligned pair.

[Dwlee99]

I don't understand why you will need to reread it if they flip mafia. Why not just read it now and decide?

[Dwlee99]

Nvm, Dier.

I don't like Haschel's way of joining the Lalendra wagon.

[Dwlee99]

@Haschel

Now this is interesting. Herr calls out Dwlee for manipulating mykonian's words, but then votes for mykonian for tone reasons. Don't like this one bit.
---SNIP---
Alright, Townreads are mykonian, implosion, Garmr, and Herrcombs.

Unvote: Herrcombs

How did you settle on reading Herrcombs as Town?

Starting at 84 his posts get much better in his interaction with myko. I also like his reaction to the Garmr situation.

PEdit:

I would still prefer to lynch Garmr but I would not be opposed to Dier as a compromise lynch, because yes, I am undecided and would be interested to see how he reacts.

Did I just read that right? I don't see how you would agree with a lynch on someone you don't have an opinion on...

I want to put pressure on him to get information. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Then don't vote for him, pressure him.

Vote: Lalendra

This vote is bad because there is no reason to think Lalendra is scum from that post. In my eyes the main way you pressure for reads is by voting them (something that haschel doesn't agree on apparently) because he says "Then don't vote for him, pressure him". Haschel seems to think that Lalendra being interested in a Dier wagon for information is not the proper way too go about it. (even though that is the point of wagons, correct?) Even if what Haschel pointed out is a scum tell it should be a FoS and isn't deserving a vote.

and the claim makes less sense from a Mafia player than from a Town player

"hey I'm pr"
"why are you still alive"
"guess they didn't want to shoot a bp"

where's the downside for scum exactly?

Beyond that, he sets it up badly, his actual claim is followed up by feigning that he doesn't care if he's lynched or not.


I'd be so incredibly happy if we got 2 stories out of this game. One that it's a policy lynch, and two that that claim was any good.

Doesn't the beginning of this post completely reflect what I was saying in one of mine? I remember someone saying that there is no reason for a scum to claim BP and I used this exact reasoning to explain why scum would claim BP.

[Dwlee99]

@ DWL's 282: Why did you unvote Garmr there? Did you ever consider the Garmr wagon to be in part due to PL, because Garmr was acting against the interests of town? What did you mean by your phrase, "There would be no reason for a policy lynch on Garmr with how they've been playing"?

I voted him because he was acting scummy. Their posts were over defensive over the weak case myko brought and then didn't like me attacking the wagon which seemed odd. The claim with the "oh lynch me I don't give a crap" I didn't like. I never considered it a policy lynch. The unvote in that post was because of me realizing (apparently to me misreading like a derp) that Lalendra was trying to pull a policy lynch on Garmr. I considered it odd and thought it was a weird thing for them to think, especially with the way they were talking about their dislike of policy lynches. I then was wondering Scum!Lalendra would try to policy lynch Scum!Garmr because that's an odd way to bus. So I unvoted.

Cause now I feel like Garmr's posts are townie

and so I'm less sure of Garmr being scum. Gotta think.

Could you quote these "posts" - I would like to see your thought-process.

These

Welp My scum list goes a little like this at the moment (Will do them one at a time starting with the biggest scum first)

Lala -

Garmr – “Honestly” was interesting, but I don’t think it was as much of a scumtell as everyone seemed to think it was. 96 also feels to me like he is being overly-defensive town, I really don’t think that it is a scummy post. But then along comes 171. What is the purpose of this post? Why say you’re a power role if you’re not willing to say what? Why claim when no one asked you to? Why so cryptic? And then you just give up on the game. Anti-town at best. Don’t play if you’re just going to totally screw your team by playing poorly and then giving up. I dislike PL but this is the wagon that I am most inclined to pursue at this point, because as Hieirama pointed out, being blatantly anti-town is almost as bad as being scum.
VOTE: Garmr

This here is a extremely poor reason to vote me and a total misrep. It's pretty obvious I was going for a gambit with out saying my power role to get scum to shoot me also I never gave up on the game I just needed a little break to clear my head about things and read other peoples reactions. The way your potraying me here seems like a scummy excuse to vote someone and say they are town at the same time. Then you try and play it off as a policy lynch which you even said yourself you don't like doing.

I dislike policy lynches, because even if someone's being anti-town, they're still a town player who is alive. I'd rather garmr replaced out and we got someone else who was worth something, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

I'm on mobile at the moment but I'll make a more extensive post when my computer decides to turn on.

P-edit: was it really necessary to quote a wall for a one-line comment?

But that doesn't even add to the fact that you haven't even tried to look for scum this game. Sure claiming something like bp maybe a little antitown but I was originally going for a gambit which i stressed out and befuddled and I'm actually trying now and shown intention.

You haven't even bothered to scum hunt this game and are just giving out town reads to most players or asking questions. You haven't made a firm stance on anyone yet. You have plenty of time to get a scum read which you haven't so. Your play also seems like your trying to duck under the radar while 259 seems forced and contradicts what you said in

There's a difference between not scum hunting, and just not posting walls and pointless read-lists. If you have questions I'll answer them, but I typically wait until I feel like I have a solid case on someone before I say something, rather than making lists of leans and nulls.

VOTE: Lala

I liked this post because of the analysis of Lalendra's post and only attacked it at first cause of my misreading of Lalendra's post.

Their main scum read seems to be you. I think that they have a scum lean on Haschel as well (confirm, lalendra?) or null I think? They mentioned them couldn't tell if it was a scum or null read.
Your second scum read is better. Fellisan's post is odd, at least the first part. It makes sense to be worried that you might actually be a power role. And I disagree about you claiming early being less likely as scum. The fact that you thought of that two-shot hider claim shows the mindset you're in. This is sort of reaching but as town why would you even think of a fake claim like that.

FoS Lalendra for suddenly giving up reads on pressure regarding them. Based on your post it wasn't a PL.

It was obvious you didn't read that correctly. They made it clear I was a policy and the fact you have to ask the person If the actually have a scum read on a person is pretty bad as they can actually deny it latter on. Also I am scum minded I put my self in scum shoes when I scum hunt.

There are three diffrent type of minded people town-fferylt/thor neutral-pirate mollie/not science and scum me and ferrylt/pirate mollies mentor (this theroy comes from there mentor who name I forgot) I have mentioned this theroy of mindsets in past games as well.

That's how I came up with my lala scum read I put myself in their shoes. I'm always thinking of how to play as scum as I enjoy scum more than town because it's easier for me. I can create scenarios in my head in a instant. It ends up catching scum people wouldn't normally catch but on the flip side I tend to miss some things other people see.

I liked reasoning in this post because it was aggressive (town trait) as well as them saying " the fact you have to ask the person If the actually have a scum read on a person is pretty bad as they can actually deny it latter on." was good logic.

[Dwlee99]

I want to see some reads from you or something that looks like you're trying to figure out the game.

Dierfire--Town, seems to be trying to figure people out, questioning people, moving the game along.

Garmr--I'm not as certain of my scumread as I was earlier, when he claimed it seemed like he was making an appeal to emotion but then he came back strong, I thought 242 and after were good.

Haschel--Null, not a lot of stuff, I don't really understand why he voted Lelandra but there's nothing overtly scummy

Implosion--Weak scum, I still think the defense of Garmr was to try to get town points, whether or not Garmr is scum.

Dwlee--Current scumread, early on was asking filler questions, read like he was posting just to post. He has a lot of content but a lot of it is filler.

VOTE: Dwlee

I assume you're referring to 36 and 73? You say "early on was asking filler questions" when it was only two and I've posted tons of content throughout the game. And that read on implosion, though. I don't get how defending someone is seen as scummy. It would have been scummy had he not commented on the garmr wagon and then later said he was town reading him the entire time. I don't like this reads list at all.

[Dwlee99]

I agree you shouldn't point out it's a pressure vote, that's bad play. I just don't understand how you can apply pressure without a vote.

[Dwlee99]

What's stopping you from being proactive TODAY hieirama?

I also am declaring intent to hammer Pistachi0n. He's not even giving a defense of any sort, just that he's an easy mislynch apparently, and his reads list was awful.

[Dwlee99]

And garmr quicklynches. *flips table*

[Dwlee99]

There is no way you could of known that would have happened, so that's a bad response.

[Dwlee99]

Garmr was already acting scummy through all of D1 and then just hammered without declaring intent.
VOTE: Garmr

@MeanMelter: I did not take a 180 from my other post. I had misread Lalendra's post (She gave reasons for a garmr lynch and then I didn't see the part where she tried to make it all a policy lynch).

My only current problem with Garmr / Lalendra is that I feel one of them is scum, but I can't decide which one. Lalendra tried to push the garmr lynch as a policy lynch, which it hasn't been for me the entire game, and so I feel like scum!Lalendra wouldn't try to policy lynch scum!Garmr which would mean only one of them is scum. I'm confident in my garmr vote for now because of that quickhammer which was so fricking scummy. He ended day early without even declaring intent.

[Dwlee99]

Garmr, there was still more to talk about. There was (someone said it) a full wagon in a page. You declare INTENT because it gives people time to make decisions and look over the wagon again.
And wtf is 472?

[Dwlee99]

My games offsite last two days irl per day so obviously we could of gotten more information.
We're deviating from the point anway. My original point was that you promised activity the next day rather than just getting into it then and there. Why would you wait?

[Dwlee99]

@Dierfire: By declaring intent to hammer I probably wouldn't have for another day and a half. I declare early to prep people to post all their stuff fast.

Not sure how I feel about the walls of text. It kind of reminds me of the tunnelling me and yuriko did that "confirmed" her.

I am definetly sticking with my garmr scum read atm.

[Dwlee99]

What about that post suggests noobscum? I felt [p]510[/b] had good analysis.

mod: code fixed! -ASP

[Dwlee99]

that fail..

[Dwlee99]

It just seems like we have to pull teeth to get that analysis, and this coming on the heels of her giving up on D1.

When did herr give up D1?

[Dwlee99]

Oh, okay. I was talking about herr not hier. My bad.

[Dwlee99]

Garmr, I don't understand how you can think everyone on your wagon is scum.
Not only would it be terrible scum play it is unreasonable and just OMGUS'y.

Herrcombs has moved really high onto my towndar (I like. 551 Very sound logic and reasoning although I disagree on hieir being the person we should lynch today.),

[Dwlee99]

I like Keyser's recent series of posts. I think that lynching Haschel would be better than lynching Garmr, but worse than lynching Hieirama or Lalendra.

UNVOTE: Hieirama
VOTE: Lalendra

@Garmr @Keyser

If you're reading Lalendra as Mafia, I think that you should vote for Lalendra.

@DWL

I'd like you to discuss further your impression that either Lalendra is Mafia or Garmr is. Are you equally willing to vote for either?

Okay, so Garmr and Lalendra heavily tunneled each other, while not meaning they are instantly un-alligned (my newbie game lmfao) Lalendra then wants to Policy lynch garmr. I think garmr is scum because of the claim, his heavy self-focusing and lack of analysis of anyone that is off his wagon. The idea of a policy lynch on that slot seems so absurd. Policy lynching does not give anyone who started the wagon town points and therefore is absolutely idiotic as scum to try and do, which means that they are unaligned. Currently I'd prefer a garmr lynch but the policy lynch thing makes me think it may have been scum attempting to make a mislynch happen without any repercussions. I'm willing to compromise onto either lynch.

[Dwlee99]

I like Keyser's recent series of posts. I think that lynching Haschel would be better than lynching Garmr, but worse than lynching Hieirama or Lalendra.

UNVOTE: Hieirama
VOTE: Lalendra

@Garmr @Keyser

If you're reading Lalendra as Mafia, I think that you should vote for Lalendra.

@DWL

I'd like you to discuss further your impression that either Lalendra is Mafia or Garmr is. Are you equally willing to vote for either?

Okay, so Garmr and Lalendra heavily tunneled each other,

while not meaning they are instantly un-alligned (my newbie game lmfao)

Lalendra then wants to Policy lynch garmr. I think garmr is scum because of the claim, his heavy self-focusing and lack of analysis of anyone that is off his wagon. The idea of a policy lynch on that slot seems so absurd. Policy lynching does not give anyone who started the wagon town points and therefore is absolutely idiotic as scum to try and do, which means that they are unaligned. Currently I'd prefer a garmr lynch but the policy lynch thing makes me think it may have been scum attempting to make a mislynch happen without any repercussions. I'm willing to compromise onto either lynch.

Forgot the other half of this sentence. Should say "While not meaning they are instantly un-alligned (my newbie game lmfao) it's still a good tell."

[Dwlee99]

I don't like how Garmr keeps telling us to meta him. It comes off as "I changed my playstyle look I'm not scum!!one1!!"

[Dwlee99]

I don't like how Garmr keeps telling us to meta him. It comes off as "I changed my playstyle look I'm not scum!!one1!!"

It irritates me people would accuse me of doing things a noob scum would do when I have never lost a scum game by town catching me (I had a sk kill me once when he was hunting town due to the fact he needed to keep towns focus on scum since scum had already taking a few hits at that stage.)

Mistakes can be made. Doesn't matter how good you are at the game.

[Dwlee99]

Can we just make the observation that hier argues from the point where she already knows garmr is town, then finds the arguments to go with it? After that little has to be said there, I think.

I know it's scummy, I know it should get lynched, I don't know how someone got to play this game and not avoid it as a tell, I don't understand why it is happening.

Fgs I triggered the defense tell again?
//tiny rant
I'm going to defend people until they give me a reason not to.

People sometimes don't defend players because they're scared of being called out for it... Or they're wrong...
But defending has benefits: could prevent a mislynch if it's right, gives a lot of information to look into if they sometime flip, and it brings counterarguments.
All arguments need to be put forward. Otherwise scum can just drive the main argument if it's in their favor because no one dares to go against the main argument.

//

Also that would be terrible scum play. If Garmr was actually a PR then Scum should try to get him lynched, not keep him alive. :/

@p-edit: Votes aren't as alignment indicative as presented evidence is. You should analyze their argument rather then their vote.
Better?

Yes, you should present arguments, but you need to look at the arguments. The soft-to-hard claim without prompting was sooo bad. The hammer, we had more to talk about and he just denies it.

I still don't know just because of Lalendra, but I feel like we need a flip from one of them. I'd prefer the garmr lynch but if someone gives more reason against Lalendra than my Garmr read I will switch wagons.

[Dwlee99]

Wait, what. I've been posting.. also:
UNVOTE: Garmr
Not sure about the slot anymore. Makes better cases on Lale than Lale makes on them.

[Dwlee99]

Nvm, it's been 2 days and 6 hours, mb. The garmr lalendra tunelling makes the game annoyingly repetitive with the same points thrown out time and time again.

[Dwlee99]

I don't understand Garmr's "crumb who you protect" thing. It seems kind of odd. Maybe the day after you save someone (like "this person is my number 1 town read") because they can't be scum if they got attacked and healed. But that argument makes no sense. And then this:

But I guess she would be killed tonight if she is town
UNVOTE: lal

It seems like you're setting up for a lynch tomorrow because of WIFOM.

[Dwlee99]

I know this has been said already but I REALLY doubt there's a BP and Doctor in the game.

[Dwlee99]

They could have a strongman, that's a possibility. In the game you were in did the scum have any power roles at all?

[Dwlee99]

I guess a BP plus Doctor could be here if there is a strongman.
UNVOTE:

[Dwlee99]

From what I remember Lale didn't do much scum hunting except for pushing you, Garmr. Will hopefully have the computer today and be able to read their ISO.

[Dwlee99]

Iirc didn't they not even have reasons for Dierfire being "obv scum"?

[Dwlee99]

From the posts you quoted Garmr I see a scum team between Dier and Lalendra. They are distancing but back tracking to avoid having the lynch go through.

[Dwlee99]

I think that dier is town. Although they have been generally passive and sitting back and asking questions I feel that those questions have solid reasoning in them.

I like Keyser's recent series of posts. I think that lynching Haschel would be better than lynching Garmr, but worse than lynching Hieirama or Lalendra.

UNVOTE: Hieirama
VOTE: Lalendra

@Garmr @Keyser

If you're reading Lalendra as Mafia, I think that you should vote for Lalendra.

@DWL

I'd like you to discuss further your impression that either Lalendra is Mafia or Garmr is. Are you equally willing to vote for either?

Like this interaction with Garmr & Keyser

@Hieirama

"My opinion still stands"
Past opinion was: "I assume he's Town."
Sorry, didn't feel like typing it out again.
I didn't substantiate it well enough. If you need a clarification, one reason why I Townread him is because his tone sounds like it's at a Town POV.

If you're reading Garmr as Town, then do you think that people voting for him are more likely to be Mafia?

Good question.

Okay, if I'm at L-1 then I guess it's claim time, before Garmr lolhammers again.

Garmr is already on the wagon. This claim feels fake to me.

@Lalendra

Which player did you protect N1?

Not really alignment-indicative question but meh.

So, having a Doctor and a BP in the same game is not impossible, but does seem a bit defensive to me. I'm also suspicious of the frequency with which our wagons are turning up roles.
If Lalendra is Mafia, the claim was probably designed mostly to dodge the lynch, rather than draw a counter, because the same principle that makes Doctor and BP unlikely to show up together makes it a less useful fake claim for drawing a counter.

If I could be certain that only one of the claims is true, I'd still probably want to lynch Lalendra (because Garmr would be reasonably confirmed if she flips Mafia and would not die immediately).
If both claims are true...well, then I'd want to look very carefully at the distribution of votes.
I wouldn't think that there's any way for neither claim to be true unless we're looking at multiple unfriendly factions.
We've plenty of time to think this through. I'm going to read through again over the next two days since I won't be busy.

@Haschel

It seems to me the question is if we think a doctor and a bulletproof townie would both be in the same game.

As you didn't remove your vote, I assume that you think not?

@BBT @Hieirama

You were absent for these events. What do you think of the wagon dynamics (speed, composition)?

Another good question.

[Dwlee99]

Me: I really like these questions :O

Lalendra: Too many questions fence sitting lynch !!

*flips table*

[Dwlee99]

But the doctor claim..

[Dwlee99]

@Dierfire: I have a good memory. /s

Yea, idk. Individually you are town but if lale's scum you're scum. Cause in the latter post I read your ISO and that looked fine by me. But lale is still distancing it seems.

[Dwlee99]

bull fucking shit lale is town individually she has provided no reasoning at all day 1 showed she wanted to vote town over scum day 1 and her reasoning for her two top scum reads are not even there. There's plenty to point to scum.

Uhm, my post was clearly about dier, not lale. I am saying "If lale is scum dierfire is a possible scum team, but from Dier's ISO they seem town". I did not say lale's ISO seems townie to me. Please read the post carefully before overreacting.

[Dwlee99]

Associative tells, Dierfire, associative tells.

If someone is saying "This slot is scum" but never actually votes that person then it's very likely that they are mafia trying to distance.

[Dwlee99]

Wait, wut.

When? o.O

[Dwlee99]

Just checked. That was like around 300-400 posts ago, dude. And she didn't push the lynch that hard.

[Dwlee99]

@DWL

How certain are you that Lalendra is Mafia? Your "associative tell" makes you sound very confident, but I don't believe that you're voting for Lalendra...

Where is Lalendra?

My associative tells mean nothing if they're not scum. I'm not confident at all that they are scum (and their doc claim seriously throws me off) but if Lale flips scum I'm coming for you~

[Dwlee99]

"Mafia trying to distance", it's likely that you two are mafia together, yes, but I read your ISO and without considering lalendra's odd interaction with you I do not find a reason to scum read you. I'd rather use the associative tell as a backup to a real case.

[Dwlee99]

Welp it's my death here if I don't jump on a wagon and deir and hasecal aren't on my scum list so.

VOTE: Lalandra

I thought you had a scum read on Lale, why is it now just "oh I have to"?

[Dwlee99]

Welp it's my death here if I don't jump on a wagon and deir and hasecal aren't on my scum list so.

VOTE: Lalandra

I thought you had a scum read on Lale, why is it now just "oh I have to"?

I am scum reading lale that's the point or didn't you read what I said again I said i was not scum reading deir/heisel but that doesn't mean I don't have a scum read on lale. ;/

In your post I quoted you make it sound like PoE instead of an actual scum read which is why I questioned it.

[Dwlee99]

I'd prefer not to lynch the claimed doctor. :/

Are you saying that scum are trying to counter wagon haschel to keep her alive? That could be possible.

[Dwlee99]

I think that haschel is just inactive. We will most likely get a decent replace in soon.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Haschel
Hopefully not rl problems like garmr mentioned.

[Dwlee99]

k garmr

[Dwlee99]

Just checked, they didn't say who they protected.

[Dwlee99]

I don't think so.

[Dwlee99]

Just checked, they didn't say who they protected.

and this. wtf

I skimmed her iso and didn't see it. :c

[Dwlee99]

I was responding to herrcomb's wanting me to give my opinion on you. In that post I say I liked your questions and then quoted that one as one of the questions. "not really alignment-indicative question" means that scum would ask that question too, I just included it for the sake of including all the questions you asked.

[Dwlee99]

/shrugs

[Dwlee99]

Donde está night?

[Dwlee99]

Why am I off the hook? ;-;

[Dwlee99]

I think that Garmr's interaction with the Haschel wagon doesn't seem scummy. It comes off as town annoyed that who they believe is scum isn't getting lynched to me.

[Dwlee99]

I'm not a mason. lol

[Dwlee99]

Do you legitimately believe that?

[Dwlee99]

That doesn't immediately make me a mason, though. Trust me, I am not a mason.

[Dwlee99]

It would work but I'm not mason.

[Dwlee99]

So who would that be, dier?
I call IIoA.

[Dwlee99]

ok, as it looks now it'll probably be this weekend that I really dive in.

One consideration that I did have during that skim I feel should be posted now.

Suppose you are haschel. Day one, you play your game. You don't get in trouble. N1 you look at your play and it really doesn't look all that good, towards the end of the day there's some suspicion and indeed you have been a terrible lurk. You are a smart kid, do you think you'll make it to lylo? That'll be hard. So comes the second question, how do you set up your buddies to win the game for you?

I'd be very surprised if haschel voted for a lynch on a buddy that might have gone through, otoh, I'd expect him to distance if he saw the opportunity. Day 1 this is obvious different, he may have thought a good lynch could set him up there.

So who would that be, dier?
I call IIoA.

Idk why I said dier, this was directed to mykonian. Phone reading OP.

Reading through BBT's ISO I see tons of mason tells between me and him which makes me laugh cause I'm not a mason.

[Dwlee99]

Yea, I see where it's coming from. It's extremely coincidental. Mason tells like that combined with the fact he was a mason.

[Dwlee99]

I don't understand why you would drop mason tells onto someone that wasn't mason, doesn't really make much sense, imo. I'm pretty sure it's just a strong town read.

[Dwlee99]

How did a townie confirm a scum member as a mason without playing against their win con..? We're getting off topic anyway. lol

[Dwlee99]

Dier is just saying "haschel would do this with his buddies but doesn't say who that applies to.

[Dwlee99]

It is to myko's thoughts on me disliking his post and I said dier again.. what is happening..

[Dwlee99]

I just realized I thought myko was defending dier and that prompted my post.

Because you didn't want to look into it, myko, haschel voted lale so they are probably town using your reasons.

[Dwlee99]

Garmr, what are thoughts on lalendra now?

Lale, did you receive a roleblocked notification?

[Dwlee99]

Myko, I did chime in. I am very certain lalendra is town through their interactions with haschel, specifically haschel's vote on lale. I am not very good at associative tells and I find them ineffective (read my noobie game lmfao) so that is about as far as I am going to go with associative tells cause delving deep into them just distracts us from actual scum hunting.

I think garmr and lalendra are both town. I think that doc and bp isn't something that shod be looked at as an unbalanced setup because the mafia could have a strongman or something.

[Dwlee99]

Mean, you are completely incorrect in saying you didn't defend haschel.

[Dwlee99]

Yea, it doesn't make much sense.

[Dwlee99]

I do not think that defending someone who flipped scum is scummy in and of itself. The way he said he didn't (it was a soft defend, you know this Meanmelter) makes him a scumlean for me. He could of said "I made a mistake thinking he was town" but instead got defensive.
I want to see MM's response to this before I make a decision on my vote.

[Dwlee99]

Look, herrcombs, you're missing it. I'm claiming "not" mason. *wink wink*

[Dwlee99]

*winks a few more times*

[Dwlee99]

So you believe she is town?

[Dwlee99]

Wut. That's not what my winking means at all. I'm claiming "not mason".

So atm you believe that the setup is:
2 masons
Dr
BP
Scum strongman.
Am I understanding correctly? So that means lalendra is town?

[Dwlee99]

Nope. lol

Remember, I'm not a mason.

[Dwlee99]

Dude, I already told you. I'm

NOT

a mason.

[Dwlee99]

You don't get it. :c

[Dwlee99]

No, you've made specific claims that meanmelter did things, that he has explicitly denied doing in his 1044. And then you brushed it all aside. Even though there are points of your argument that I agree with, I can't understand why you would have to blatantly spin the facts and exaggerate to better make your case. That's not a townie thing to do.

I love how you accuse me of wall-derping when you glossed over the bulk of what I wrote in 1050. I guess you still have nothing to say about the scum-read you conveniently gave me D2 (530) right after I made a post condemning your D1 quickhammer (remember deflecting that with a "well what about my other reads"?). How you hadn't said a word about me beforehand, and haven't touched that scumread with a 10-foot pole since? I guess you have nothing to say regarding your THIRD blatantly anti-town 'action in this game? Your role-fishing that was completely misguided, unsolicited, and has caused someone to prematurely claim not-mason, which ONLY benefits scum?

Says you outed a possible mason candidate for scum to target.

Look, herrcombs, you're missing it. I'm claiming "not" mason. *wink wink*

I'm "not a mason".

*winks a few more times*

Further implying I'm "not a mason"

So you believe she is town?

Until another power role is claimed yeah unless your going to tell me you have results proving her guilt which judging by your winking you do,

You say I have a guilty on her.

Wut. That's not what my winking means at all. I'm claiming "not mason".

So atm you believe that the setup is:
2 masons
Dr
BP
Scum strongman.
Am I understanding correctly? So that means lalendra is town?

I can't have a guilty cause I'm "not a mason."

Also was hoping you had a guilty on her would of made me the happiest chap.

Nope. lol

Remember, I'm not a mason.

I still don't have a guilty cause I'm not a mason.

Your confusing me dwells because masons come in twos or unlikey threes so yeh.

Dude, I already told you. I'm

NOT

a mason.

I'M NOT A MASON!!!one11!!!!1!!

[Dwlee99]

When did I say that. o3o

[Dwlee99]

The answer is no, btw.

[Dwlee99]

WIFOM Hieriama, WIFOM.

I am still "not" a mason.

[Dwlee99]

I want the meanmelter's response to my post~

[Dwlee99]

Herrcombs read the conversation, there is no doubt about that. I don't think that his post is scummy, can you point out what about it is?

[Dwlee99]

I think herrcombs wants you to quote posts and provide more evidence about some of the things. When did herrcombs comment on meanmelter's soft defending of haschel, though?

[Dwlee99]

He didn't mention anywhere within that post about mean's soft-defense of haschel. In that post he is telling you to find proof for your claims.

[Dwlee99]

That's not what I asked for though, garmr.
Look:

@dwelle


-long herrcombs post snipped-


do you think this comes from a derp town who didn't bother to read the convo between me and melta or scum?

Derp town or scum because they didn't read the conversation.

Herrcombs read the conversation, there is no doubt about that. I don't think that his post is scummy, can you point out what about it is?

Read it, I don't think it's scummy, what about it is?

Herrcombs read the conversation, there is no doubt about that. I don't think that his post is scummy, can you point out what about it is?

I don't think he read my arguments with mean melter as his quick to label me as saying no you didn't when I have facts and actually got the point that mean melter was soft defending hascheil which he denied which you guys acknowledge he did. Thus means at most he did a quick glance through what was actually written. I want to know if you think that's scum pretending to do a quick glance or town because it's been pointed out I do make some fair point in posts even through not everyone agrees with all of them.

I think herrcombs wants you to quote posts and provide more evidence about some of the things. When did herrcombs comment on meanmelter's soft defending of haschel, though?

@dwelle

If you claim that Mean "tried to dispel my reads as only people that scum read me," and mean says he did no such thing, it is your responsibility to either show where he in fact said it, or admit that you're lying. Your 1045 just looks like you're trying to back yourself out of responsibility of claims you've made against mean. "really can't be bothered with these anwsers as they do nothing to change my points," well your points don't mean much if they're false to begin with. As scum, this makes complete sense, because you're using hyperbole to fabricate a case to get someone lynched. If you're town, it just means that you are lazy in how you throw shit around, making claims that aren't verifiable, exaggerating because you feel a certain way about a slot. I'm leaning towards the former.

VOTE: Garmr

this is him saying my points are all shit when it's obvious that when another person (soon to be more than one) agrees with me that there not one point that's right. It means he either didn't read everything correctly, isn't really good player or scum. Because I don't see how it's possible to come to that conclusion when other players are agreeing with me.

I asked about where he commented on mean's soft-defense of Haschel and you responded with this post which doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the soft-defense of haschel.

He didn't mention anywhere within that post about mean's soft-defense of haschel. In that post he is telling you to find proof for your claims.

my claims have enough proof through -_-

So yea. I asked about herrcomb's comment on mean's soft defense of haschel and you responded with that.

[Dwlee99]

Tunnelling isn't scummy but if you don't gave many reads other than one person by day 3.. well..

[Dwlee99]

Garmr reads the emerging Haschel Cedricson wagon as a scum-counter wagon. I can see town-Garmr thinking this:

tbf, I think this could also come from scum trying to protect his buddy.

Garmr REALLY wants the Lalendra lynch: post 829, post 830, post 837, post 842, post 847, post 854.
This does make me feel that Garmr didn't know Haschel Cedricson was scum.

Could you explain this for me Keyser? Are you saying if Garmr and Haschel were scumbuddies, Garmr wouldn't have had an outburst like that trying to get Lala lynched? Not sure I agree.

I agree with both of these points, this seems less like a town who was unaware of Haschel's alignment, and more like scum actively trying to push a counter-wagon.

At this point, I do not think Meanmelter and Garmr are scum together, but I would wager that there's a scum between them.

So just to be clear, you are saying, since you voted Garmr, that you think Mean is town?

Your only scumreads D2 were people who were either voting you or considering it. See 530. I even called you out on this, and you sheepishly dropped your contrived scumread on me like a bad habit. Your scumread on feli D1 was AFTER he had first scumread you (see 270). Same with myko. Why does this matter? Because it looks like you're only interested in lynching people who want to kill you.

I don't know, that seems like awfully blatant scum behavior, and given that Garmr is (I think) more experienced than that, I'm not sure I agree. I'm starting to believe more that Garmr is just anti-town town, as opposed to blatant scum.

I do not think that defending someone who flipped scum is scummy in and of itself. The way he said he didn't (it was a soft defend, you know this Meanmelter) makes him a scumlean for me. He could of said "I made a mistake thinking he was town" but instead got defensive.
I want to see MM's response to this before I make a decision on my vote.

That is my main problem with Mean as well.

So this makes me think two things you went walls derp and didn't read a thing which is not what a townie should do or your scum buddies with mean melter and chainsawing for him.

I don't necessarily think that glazing over walls when you're pressed for time and/or waxing apathetic about a particular slot is alignment-indicative. Is it pro-town? No. But it's not inherently scummy either, imo.

Also was hoping you had a guilty on her would of made me the happiest chap.

Can't say I blame you there, we all love being vindicated.

Your confusing me dwells because masons come in twos or unlikey threes so yeh.

Sarcasm is lost on this one.

So your saying there's three masons

LMAO this whole exchange is amazing.

[quote="In

I really want Hieirama to cast a vote.

Ookay.
VOTE: Meanmelter
Didn't feel that good about his tunnel, and I did agree with Garmr that there was a bit of misrep in his case. Also, the point Dwlee made about the refusing the defense accusations.

After all this time, and all that's happened, and being pushed for reads/votes, THAT'S IT??[/quote]
The thing I bolded and made larger doesn't really agree with your vote, imo. You cast suspicion onto garmr but then vote mean when one of them is most likely scum.
I agree that the scum out of those two is meanmelter but you contradict yourself in a small way.

[Dwlee99]

@MeanMelter: From a quick skim of your ISO you have interactions with a lot of people (mainly questions) but not really saying how you feel on the slots. Can you quote an example of you posting how you feel on a slot?

And where is like half our player base for this game???

[Dwlee99]

Oh, I did not see that it wasn't a vote lalendra.
I knew it made no sense.

[Dwlee99]

No. No more spoilers. I can't open them on my phooone

[Dwlee99]

Uhmm, what keyser? Herrcombs and mykonian are your two strongest town reads and on the garmr wagon but you are joining the meanmelter wagon??

[Dwlee99]

So you believe your town reads are wrong? You say "let's examine the wagons" or whatever and then say how your town reads are on one wagon but you join another??

[Dwlee99]

K lol

[Dwlee99]

I will L-1 when I get home from school unless Meanmelter can convince me not to.

[Dwlee99]

Okay, thanks for those examples. Ftr I said an but I like that you put more.

And idk how you want me to answer that question. It is all situational. Who gets NK'd? What are reactions on your wagon? etc.

[Dwlee99]

Not Voting -

Dwlee99, Lalendra, Keyser Söze

3*

[Dwlee99]

Not Voting -

Dwlee99, Lalendra, Keyser Söze

3*

no sunshine, soze is fine. It's really just you two.

[Dwlee99]

They think saying "when" means that it will happen, meanmelter. It is pretty clear you mean if, though.

[Dwlee99]

Your word selection is poor, meanmelter.
It is like Garmr saying honestly early in the game.

[Dwlee99]

Yea, I know garmr. I know what he meant though so no reason to hammer over it. When is deadline?

[Dwlee99]

Stuff?

[Dwlee99]

I want hieriama's replacement to show up.

[Dwlee99]

Vote Count 3.5

3

Garmr - mykonian, Meanmelter, herrcombs [L-2]

3

Meanmelter - Garmr, Dierfire, Hieirama [L-2]

Not Voting -

Dwlee99, Lalendra, Keyser Söze

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline - (expired on 2015-11-04 08:00:00)

Seeking a replacement for Hieirama.

[Dwlee99]

AJ, after reading the thread in 2.5 seconds what do you think?

[Dwlee99]

Any summary will be biased, just rtt.

[Dwlee99]

Any summary will be biased, just rtt.

Are you suggesting that an obvious bad bias can be said without repercussions?

We had an early hammer D1 and no repercussions, lol.

[Dwlee99]

Any summary will be biased, just rtt.

Are you suggesting that an obvious bad bias can be said without repercussions?

We had an early hammer D1 and no repercussions, lol.

I learned as town you can get away with claiming hider day 1, Faking a cop guilty on someone and end up mislynching them, Faking a day vig on a player so they roleclaim or just outing a power role in general and still avoid getting lynched and win it for town.

When people cry about anti town plays it's scum that tend to push the anti town players the hardest and scum stupidly fall for it every time and get lynched.

Wut. You should of been lynched at the fake cop guilty. o.O

Did that actually happen?

[Dwlee99]

I suspect Scum are most-likely going to target Dwlee. He claimed *not* mason, which could easily raise the suspicion of another PR.

What do you mean by this?

[Dwlee99]

Why would they kill a not mason, though?

[Dwlee99]

Then why would you say that they would kill me earlier in the post?

[Dwlee99]

^ AJ is correct.

[Dwlee99]

No explanation keyser?

And isn't it plurality if deadline is reached, garmr?

[Dwlee99]

Why, herr?

[Dwlee99]

Ughh. I don't feel comfortable with this game at all. Scum garmr would surely know that lynching meanmelter would make him suspicious and I don't see him going so hard onto that lynch as scum. At the same time the bp claim makes me weary because it makes him untouchable by nk making it clear why a pr is alive. The statement about the bypass of lale's role makes me uncomfortable as well. fffff

[Dwlee99]

Ok. Let's put Garmr off to the side for a moment. Who do you think was the most suspicious person on mean's wagon? Do you think between myko and me, one of us (or both??) is scum?

Out of you two I'd go for a Myko lynch. Why are you completely disregarding everyone else on the wagon??

[Dwlee99]

I might summon an inner titus within me to analyze votes.

I have a little bit of a feel for the game but people self-voting doesn't confuse anything at all! (sarcasm)

[Dwlee99]

Self-meta (Actually meta in general) is trash, garmr.

[Dwlee99]

"Meta is not a good scumhunting tool. People can manipulate their meta.. Stop it. Stop it now."

[Dwlee99]

Read 1135 and 1138 keyse

[Dwlee99]

The only experience I have with VCA was jn Justified Season 2 mini where titus replaced in and by using VCA confirmed my scum buddy as town which led to a town loss. Do they work most of the time?

[Dwlee99]

And why does that matter?

[Dwlee99]

I agree that Ajs mean vote was really odd. I dont see why they would just vote for the popular wagon.

[Dwlee99]

Not to mention you can't roleblock a mason. That vote is so awful, myko.
VOTE: Myko

[Dwlee99]

So PoE, myko?

[Dwlee99]

I don't think that the setup speculation was at all scummy.

[Dwlee99]

I don't think that the setup speculation was at all scummy.

That's your opinion. Also you seem to think I'm scum so I don't exactly know why you are arguing about how I think about the game?

I can't say my opinion about your reads list and why I disagree with them because I think you're scum? That makes no sense. I'm voting you because you are voting dier for poor reasons, imo.

[Dwlee99]

And how do you know that I damn well know you're town? That is the question. o3o

[Dwlee99]

Any change in your reads, keyser, or naw?

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE: Myko

No no no no no garmr.

[Dwlee99]

I voted him for a reaction. I liked that reaction. ??

[Dwlee99]

How was I supposed to know, garmr?

[Dwlee99]

*Myko blacklists garmr* *Garmr never gets to fulfill the revenge*

[Dwlee99]

So when is deadline?

[Dwlee99]

One day left AJ. o3o

[Dwlee99]

I am waiting for AJ.

[Dwlee99]

Yo Aj where u at?

VOTE: AJ

[Dwlee99]

I see a lot of excuses to not do anything and shove the blame on me. If you're going to wait for me like that, you're going to be quite disappointed. I'm catching up as fast as I can but what the hell are you waiting for so much that you just start prod dodging while waiting? I may take a prod but more of you ain't doing much better.

nonono

you are going to post some more

Just to continue the fact Myko is town.

Ok back early and feeling better. Anyway i am not going to replace out as really what would that do I pretty much already claimed and you assume I'm going to do nothing all game except defend myself and what more can I actually do to hurt the game state other than claim this useless role... Another reason I took the break was when I came back I could see to how people would react with out my presence because I didn't want to fill 70 the chat with Me vs myko


Anyway what I got about three town reads out of it i'll do the scum reads after because tbh I'm lazy and it be interesting to see how people react.


Dwlee- He has been fighting hard for it and has a much better case than myko ever did even through it's still wrong and flawed in places. What I don't like is how he was pretty defensive of myko yet at the time myko had the best on him this worries me a lot. Also I feel like Dwelee is pushing for the fact That I am scum yet he refuses to listen to what others have to say when is criticed In a way that makes him come across as a stubborn townie rather than stubborn scum.

Heirama-I find this slot to be town. Because I don't really see a scum slot trying to push me to replace out and waste a potential mislynch that is the first big sign. Other than that heirs play has been consistent and I can see logic in pretty much all heirs posts.

Implosion-His debate with myko makes me lean more toward the town side. It looks like he his trying to convince myko of his point of view. As he thinks we are both town I think this falls in line with someone with a town mindset. He also shows more town hunting than scum hunting through scum hunting is there process of elimination is also a thing.

This post by itself isn't necessarily town. However, I ran through his iso after and he holds to this read list. That's the best counterpoint I have to lynching him so far, but it got little to no reaction. 1 known to be town, 1 I know to be town.

Hmm, I didn't read it as a policy lynch.
UNVOTE:
There would be no reason for a policy lynch on Garmr with how they've been playing. I don't even know right now. I liked her list but apparently I misread it. And now I don't know. I feel that Lalendra and Gamyr are an unaligned pair.. I think? But we know what the last "unaligned" pair ended up being.(@BBT & @Dierfire)

This isn't a good post by Dwlee. He's attesting to not reading into motivation and on top of that just sheeping. Then the person he had been following, he turns around and votes.

Continuing after the dem debate.

What does that even mean?

[Dwlee99]

Because policy lynching garmr was so bad? It looked like scum distancing from a mislynch. I thought lalendra shared my views of garmr but adding "oh it is a policy lynch" made no sense after the evidence they posted.

[Dwlee99]

Keep catching up please.
UNVOTE: Aj

[Dwlee99]

Cause he didnt show up but then he did but I am not satisfied with what he posted.