Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[pistachi0n]

@herrcombs--There are 4 votes. There need to be some votes to apply pressure, even early in the game. But nobody's rushing to instalynch. So what are you worried about?

[Keyser Söze]

What do you think of Keyser? (Yes I'm still on that)

I am on V/LA until Sunday evening.

[Hieirama]

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

It would've been better if you haven't claimed.
Even if you're actually BP it was a really anti-town move.
Going anti-town just because of frustration really isn't a nice thing to do.

The popular

In post 24, Garmr wrote:
Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

wins my interest. Not really the quote itself, but on how much attention its given.

OK. So what interests you about it? Do you think the attention it's getting is revealing any information? Are any of your reads from 76 developing as a result?

I thought the stretchy attention from Myko was just to get the game going, but it seems serious now…
I could see this as myko and two other scum building up from a small unimportant remark from Garmr, and the stress perhaps caused him to stress out and make that claim.

So if we Lynch Garmr, in my eyes its more of a policy Lynch…

-
@implosion
It takes guts to stand up for players being wagoned.
I'm feeling a little Town Motivation from it, but I'm not fully sure yet.

@ DWL: why did you feel the need to make that post? Like... you literally just opened Garmr's ISO, summarized each post, and added barely any analysis to it... And the last paragraph is just fluffy speculation.

IIOA? Uhoh, Dwlee…

[Dwlee99]

My post wasn't IIoA. I had as much analysis as was completely possible for those 12 posts. And my main message was clear, they haven't scum hunted at all (except for a little on myko, kinda?) and their posts weren't very townie. I'd accept the level of scumminess they are displaying if they had actually done scumhunting.

[mykonian]

oh welp.

have you played before hier? (also don't know if it was you or someone else, but that word I can pronounce. So I use that)

[mykonian]

I'm not a patient man so a messy quote it'll be.

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

It would've been better if you haven't claimed.
Even if you're actually BP it was a really anti-town move.
Going anti-town just because of frustration really isn't a nice thing to do.

Ok. Not sure why you assume he's town in this. You are. Analysis is good, assumption seems off. Could be a scumtell but it's really blatant in that case. You could talk more about this.

The popular

In post 24, Garmr wrote:
Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

wins my interest. Not really the quote itself, but on how much attention its given.

OK. So what interests you about it? Do you think the attention it's getting is revealing any information? Are any of your reads from 76 developing as a result?

I thought the stretchy attention from Myko was just to get the game going, but it seems serious now…
I could see this as myko and two other scum building up from a small unimportant remark from Garmr, and the stress perhaps caused him to stress out and make that claim.

So if we Lynch Garmr, in my eyes its more of a policy Lynch…

3 scum just pushing a townie doesn't happen. Sometimes 3 end up in the same place, but organised pushes are near unheard of, and hard to organise. This makes me think you haven't exactly played all that much mafia, and even then I'm not sure why you take this explanation over any other simpler one. Why does it take an entire conspiracy to lynch someone who hasn't posted any analysis, has posted several defensive posts, and has made a dodgy claim (as you yourself so neatly explained).

I do have a policy of lynching people I think scum. I don't know why you call it a policy lynch, or construe it as if garmr's only scumtell has been his post on the first page. This hasn't been the case.

[Dierfire]

Too many posts...
Garmr claimed BP. I dislike this. It's a poor time for a claim and a suspicious sort of claim to make. I don't want to say that it's so obviously a bad idea for a Town player that it could only come from a Town player, but...
---
Other things...
Implosion seems Town to me. Did I say that already? I'll agree with his opinion of DWL (Town but not helpful right now).
I think that I want to hear more from Lalendra. Not making cases is fine; not making cases while also not asking questions is too passive.
Oh, Felissan came back! The vote on Hieirama was good and most of the reasoning seemed good (about the posts feeling uneasy). This was less good:

I'd like to put a bit more pressure on him, hence my vote.

It feels a bit defensive, like an attempt to gain distance from the case.

[Hieirama]

My post wasn't IIoA. I had as much analysis as was completely possible for those 12 posts. And my main message was clear, they haven't scum hunted at all (except for a little on myko, kinda?) and their posts weren't very townie. I'd accept the level of scumminess they are displaying if they had actually done scumhunting.

Still... Try not to include too much obvious information that doesn't contribute to your read. It's making the post a little congested, and it unnecessarily floods my head with unneeded info.

I'm not a patient man so a messy quote it'll be.

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

It would've been better if you haven't claimed.
Even if you're actually BP it was a really anti-town move.
Going anti-town just because of frustration really isn't a nice thing to do.

Ok. Not sure why you assume he's town in this. You are. Analysis is good, assumption seems off. Could be a scumtell but it's really blatant in that case. You could talk more about this.

The popular

In post 24, Garmr wrote:
Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

wins my interest. Not really the quote itself, but on how much attention its given.

OK. So what interests you about it? Do you think the attention it's getting is revealing any information? Are any of your reads from 76 developing as a result?

I thought the stretchy attention from Myko was just to get the game going, but it seems serious now…
I could see this as myko and two other scum building up from a small unimportant remark from Garmr, and the stress perhaps caused him to stress out and make that claim.

So if we Lynch Garmr, in my eyes its more of a policy Lynch…

3 scum just pushing a townie doesn't happen. Sometimes 3 end up in the same place, but organised pushes are near unheard of, and hard to organise. This makes me think you haven't exactly played all that much mafia, and even then I'm not sure why you take this explanation over any other simpler one. Why does it take an entire conspiracy to lynch someone who hasn't posted any analysis, has posted several defensive posts, and has made a dodgy claim (as you yourself so neatly explained).

I do have a policy of lynching people I think scum. I don't know why you call it a policy lynch, or construe it as if garmr's only scumtell has been his post on the first page. This hasn't been the case.

This… is my 4th Fourm Mafia game… yeah.

I'm bringing in the possibility of Garmr just being an anti-town, town.
I personally see this as the more likley scenario.

Yh, I can understand that.
If Garmr is Town then I have a strong feeling that the wagon was scum-driven, mainly because if how petty the original reason was. Could be three Mafia, could be one.

I use "policy lynch" incorrectly maybe? The way I see it is: This player's posts don't seem to have scum Motivation, but they're being toxic to the Town wincon. They're the best lynch until someone proves to be genuinely scummy.

[mykonian]

It's the most curious thing. You assume he's town then the scumtells aren't genuine.

that's the wrong way around!

[Dwlee99]

My post wasn't IIoA. I had as much analysis as was completely possible for those 12 posts. And my main message was clear, they haven't scum hunted at all (except for a little on myko, kinda?) and their posts weren't very townie. I'd accept the level of scumminess they are displaying if they had actually done scumhunting.

Still... Try not to include too much obvious information that doesn't contribute to your read. It's making the post a little congested, and it unnecessarily floods my head with unneeded info.

I'm not a patient man so a messy quote it'll be.

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

It would've been better if you haven't claimed.
Even if you're actually BP it was a really anti-town move.
Going anti-town just because of frustration really isn't a nice thing to do.

Ok. Not sure why you assume he's town in this. You are. Analysis is good, assumption seems off. Could be a scumtell but it's really blatant in that case. You could talk more about this.

The popular

In post 24, Garmr wrote:
Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

wins my interest. Not really the quote itself, but on how much attention its given.

OK. So what interests you about it? Do you think the attention it's getting is revealing any information? Are any of your reads from 76 developing as a result?

I thought the stretchy attention from Myko was just to get the game going, but it seems serious now…
I could see this as myko and two other scum building up from a small unimportant remark from Garmr, and the stress perhaps caused him to stress out and make that claim.

So if we Lynch Garmr, in my eyes its more of a policy Lynch…

3 scum just pushing a townie doesn't happen. Sometimes 3 end up in the same place, but organised pushes are near unheard of, and hard to organise. This makes me think you haven't exactly played all that much mafia, and even then I'm not sure why you take this explanation over any other simpler one. Why does it take an entire conspiracy to lynch someone who hasn't posted any analysis, has posted several defensive posts, and has made a dodgy claim (as you yourself so neatly explained).

I do have a policy of lynching people I think scum. I don't know why you call it a policy lynch, or construe it as if garmr's only scumtell has been his post on the first page. This hasn't been the case.

This… is my 4th Fourm Mafia game… yeah.

I'm bringing in the possibility of Garmr just being an anti-town, town.
I personally see this as the more likley scenario.

Yh, I can understand that.
If Garmr is Town then I have a strong feeling that the wagon was scum-driven, mainly because if how petty the original reason was. Could be three Mafia, could be one.

I use "policy lynch" incorrectly maybe? The way I see it is: This player's posts don't seem to have scum Motivation, but they're being toxic to the Town wincon. They're the best lynch until someone proves to be genuinely scummy.

It contributes to my read because it shows Garmr not doing anything townie and posting some fluff.

[Lalendra]

I dislike policy lynches, because even if someone's being anti-town, they're still a town player who is alive. I'd rather garmr replaced out and we got someone else who was worth something, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

I'm on mobile at the moment but I'll make a more extensive post when my computer decides to turn on.

P-edit: was it really necessary to quote a wall for a one-line comment?

[Dwlee99]

I dislike policy lynches, because even if someone's being anti-town, they're still a town player who is alive. I'd rather garmr replaced out and we got someone else who was worth something, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

I'm on mobile at the moment but I'll make a more extensive post when my computer decides to turn on.

P-edit: was it really necessary to quote a wall for a one-line comment?

Have you read the game?

[Hieirama]

You're a lot of fun when you do that,
Exaggerate and... Almost manipulate?

It's the most curious thing. You assume he's town then the scumtells aren't genuine.

that's the wrong way around!

Yes I assume he's Town.

The scumtells, which scumtells? I've only mentioned "scum" and "genuine" when addressing the possibily of someone else coming forward with a scummy attitude, to whom I'll switch my vote toward.

The "scummy" or "scumtell" or whatever in my reply wasn't pointing at Garmr.

I'm not too sure how that's a "wrong-way-around".

[mykonian]

you explain his posts from the point where you already assume he's town.

why don't you read his posts and try to find his allignment?

[Hieirama]

I personally assume he's Town.

Read them a lil' bit anyway. Looks like he's casually in some conversations, he is arguing against you and I agree: "honestly" is not a scumtell. It's so simple, yet everyone is looking badly at him anyway. I'm feeling more Town frustration then scum from him.
Besides vibes, I can't find any other post I don't like other than #117. Imo, he gave up.

But, to insist, bring in the scenario that he was scum. You've must've gotten really lucky for finding scum by the word "honestly". That's like... Kinda unlikely, and its not what I'd like to go with currently.

[Hieirama]

I dislike policy lynches, because even if someone's being anti-town, they're still a town player who is alive. I'd rather garmr replaced out and we got someone else who was worth something, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

I'm on mobile at the moment but I'll make a more extensive post when my computer decides to turn on.

P-edit: was it really necessary to quote a wall for a one-line comment?

Replacing out is ideal.
Players that become destructive to Town shouldn't stay around too long. We spend so much time trying to figure out what they're doing, when we could be spending that time finding actual scum.
Then scum will target them for an easy mislych during the worst scenario. (Keeping them alive for a LyLo, for example)

[Dwlee99]

You're a lot of fun when you do that,
Exaggerate and... Almost manipulate?

It's the most curious thing. You assume he's town then the scumtells aren't genuine.

that's the wrong way around!

Yes I assume he's Town.

The scumtells, which scumtells? I've only mentioned "scum" and "genuine" when addressing the possibily of someone else coming forward with a scummy attitude, to whom I'll switch my vote toward.

The "scummy" or "scumtell" or whatever in my reply wasn't pointing at Garmr.

I'm not too sure how that's a "wrong-way-around".

It's cause I'm no longer editing quotes in case I accidentally remove something important from the post that relates to what I'm talking about.

[Garmr]

Ok back early and feeling better. Anyway i am not going to replace out as really what would that do I pretty much already claimed and you assume I'm going to do nothing all game except defend myself and what more can I actually do to hurt the game state other than claim this useless role... Another reason I took the break was when I came back I could see to how people would react with out my presence because I didn't want to fill 70 the chat with Me vs myko


Anyway what I got about three town reads out of it i'll do the scum reads after because tbh I'm lazy and it be interesting to see how people react.


Dwlee- He has been fighting hard for it and has a much better case than myko ever did even through it's still wrong and flawed in places. What I don't like is how he was pretty defensive of myko yet at the time myko had the best on him this worries me a lot. Also I feel like Dwelee is pushing for the fact That I am scum yet he refuses to listen to what others have to say when is criticed In a way that makes him come across as a stubborn townie rather than stubborn scum.

Heirama-I find this slot to be town. Because I don't really see a scum slot trying to push me to replace out and waste a potential mislynch that is the first big sign. Other than that heirs play has been consistent and I can see logic in pretty much all heirs posts.

Implosion-His debate with myko makes me lean more toward the town side. It looks like he his trying to convince myko of his point of view. As he thinks we are both town I think this falls in line with someone with a town mindset. He also shows more town hunting than scum hunting through scum hunting is there process of elimination is also a thing.

[Hieirama]

@Garmr
WB!
Glad to see that the vacation helped.
Reading that, my Town read on implosion gets a bit stronger too; I need to review Dwlee...
Eager to see your thoughts on Myko's play when you've been gone.

[Dwlee99]

@Garmr 242: Can you explain the second sentence in your read on me? What did you mean I defended Myko when he had the best on me? What does him having the best of me mean?

[Garmr]

@Garmr 242: Can you explain the second sentence in your read on me? What did you mean I defended Myko when he had the best on me? What does him having the best of me mean?

Bad typing lol. I mean myko had the best case on him at the time. He was reaching at everything and anything this could be seen a scum flail. I really don't know how you could of seen it otherwise other than if you got fucked up on some kinda pills or something. I heard acid is some very strong shit

@Garmr
WB!
Glad to see that the vacation helped.
Reading that, my Town read on implosion gets a bit stronger too; I need to review Dwlee...
Eager to see your thoughts on Myko's play when you've been gone.

To be honest I'm starting to have doubts mykos scum. I'm starting to believe he may really be that crazy to believe what he is saying and I don't really want to believe someone who act like that in town exists...

[Haschel Cedricson]

Alright, a few notes, written as I get caught up.

Okay, we're out of RVS. Fine.
But let's look at Garmr's ISO -
21 - RVS
24 - "Honestly don't see anything scummy so far"

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town.

So saying he doesn't see anything scummy is a scum tell? Okay, totally.

This is a horrible misrepresentation.

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town

. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary. Add to this that he's

stepping in to protect someone from an accusation

and that little sentence becomes quite damning.

Buddying and at the same time

showing off his mindset is scummy.

So dwlee, are we out of rvs?

Gamr didn't call anyone/someone town though:

Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

We were in RVS:

who is the "someone" you think he called town/was trying to buddy up with/stepping in to protect?

This is a fair point, though.

Unvote

VOTE: Felissan
"I just don't get a townvibe from you" after a vote feels like appeasement + a psychological desire not to commit to the read. I haven't actually read the rest of the post. I will when I can.

Good post here. I don't care for people citing "vibes" as a main reason for voting for someone.

I clipped it out because the rest was gibberish about him saying the word "honestly". He did say some stuff about it being him buddying and "Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning." but it's a weak case that relies on saying the word "honestly" being a scum tell, which, like you said, isn't one.

Yeah, but your original quote ("So saying he doesn't see anything scummy is a scum tell? Okay, totally") ignored the part of his post where he thought Garmr was scummy for buddying someone (pretty sure that someone was me). Not sure why you felt you had to manipulate mykonian's 37 to get your point across.

pedit: What's with the caustic aggression coming out of mykonian? Calling another player after a very short back-and-forth "either a worthless town or a worthless scum", and then dehumanizing him by calling him "it"... No clue if this is a matter of playstyle or if he's getting super bent out of shape because his 37 was jumped on, or what. But it doesn't seem like myko is working to get past it, either way. Just seems to be instigating a fight with Dwlee. Also, noted that mykonian is ignoring Dwlee's reasoning for voting Soze and trying to insist it's simply OMGUS.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian

Now this is interesting. Herr calls out Dwlee for manipulating mykonian's words, but then votes for mykonian for tone reasons. Don't like this one bit.

(Negative vibes)

Their posts can be looked at from so many different perspectives.
Either they're joking about their reasons, they actually have a reason that no one can figure out atm, or your just trying to mess things up with herrcombs.

Which one was it, Hischel? I'd like to get this out of my head.

Ooh, questions for me! Questions I see no reason to answer!

lolwut

I was just joking

but now that scumslip. This is actually interesting.

This is reaching and he has yet to respond to multiple people questioning it.

VOTE: mykonian

Really? THAT'S the reason you're going to give for your vote?

I made that readlist, you're right, to contribute a little bit more than a one-liner. I'm not sure how that's scum-oriented?
I'm not being helpful if all my opinions are all jumbled in my head. So why not share it, even if it's minor?
This is the fastest pace game I've played in. I do hate missing the boat.

This is scummy.

Don't feel like scrolling up to find the quotes, but I don't like Keyser's rolefishing or the fact that Garmr bites on it.

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

Jesus Christ. If you don't care about a game, replace out; claiming is anti-town. Nevertheless now the question is, is Garmr a big enough asshole to use the word "retarded" to try and bolster emotional support for his fakeclaim? I don't know; I haven't played with him before. I hope the answer is "No".

Garmr is like 99% town. There's nearly zero reason for him to claim bulletproof townie here as scum. 177-178 is a genuine emotional outburst.

Leaning towards agreeing with this.

I'm particularly interested to see mykonian's take on the claim, incidentally.

I dislike that it was lead by a softclaim.

I call bullshit on his mention that he doesn't mind to be lynched: then what was the purpose of a claim there?

Actually, I think the softclaim actually makes the claim more likely.

There's a difference between not scum hunting, and just not posting walls and pointless read-lists. If you have questions I'll answer them, but I typically wait until I feel like I have a solid case on someone before I say something, rather than making lists of leans and nulls

Alright! What specifically makes you not a fan of Garmr's claim? What posts from mykonian have been crap and why?

Alright, Townreads are mykonian, implosion, Garmr, and Herrcombs.

Unvote: Herrcombs

Don't care for Dwlee, Lalendra, or Hieirama.

Going to bed now to sleep on all of this, and I'll try not to fall behind again.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Going to catch up on this soon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Now the pace of this game isn't amazing, but it's now slow either. There are some people with reads and it's going underway. Hier is about to miss the boat, and still doesn't know how to respond properly. Normal town wouldn't care, you just see the last couple of posts and comment on it. So we have someone here who wants to watch which way the wind blows, and as such stands out compared to the tempo of the townies we've seen so far. That's scumtell one.

The second is the list itself. There are two reasons to make lists. One's to get organised and present otherwise cluttered info. The other is to make sure you actually get something posted beyond a oneliner. This is the last. Page 4, too little has happened that commenting to 1 or 2 events wouldn't do. There's no use at all to post that for half of the game, you don't have a read yet. Again, hier's perfectly aware there should be a post from her here. By absence of something comfortable to post about, the safety of a rigid structure is sought and found in posting a list with a little bit non-information about everybody. At least that way you get something on first sight good looking posted. But it makes no sense to do it when we've had barely 2 pages of non rvs posting.

What makes you think this is scum and not newb town?

This is reaching and he has yet to respond to multiple people questioning it.

VOTE: mykonian

Really? He is reaching on page 2? What were you expecting...a watertight case?

This is an alt account, but I've been playing for a little over a month. I've played three games, this is the first one outside RtR.

What made you want to create an alt account so early?

Should I go back to lurking or?

Are you saying you were intentionally lurking?

You know having a lot of content with stretched reads can be a sign of scum trying to hard to be town. So it's not really a weak reason to be voting myko. As we also just came out RVs I don't understand why you would attack a wagon you call null and admit that mykos reasons are stretched.

Firstly, town can try hard. Try harding is not a scum tell and it never will be.

Also attacking a wagon this early is stupid if you don't town read them for multiple reasons. Also they are stretching vote is better than this wagon shit but lol his a null read. Maybe with a bit of pressure you could of had your read on him.

Secondly, this is scum!Garmr trying to insert himself into the game. If I were scum, I would 100% attack Dwlee's read/positioning around Myko here because it's so easy to do.

[mykonian]

What makes you think this is scum and not newb town?

hadn't considered it at that point.

the tell does work for newb scum but itsn't as watertight.

The thing that's really throwing me for a loop here is hier's view of the garmr's case. If she's (this is starting to bother me btw, are you a he or a she?) scum it's so incredibly blatant. I can't think of someone who'd play on ms for a couple of games who didn't run into a scum getting caught via defending a town too hard, it's just something that has been meta for a while now.

Hard is a shortcut btw. Where defense of a player goes from arguing why you think they are town to scum buddying and faking it is that scum tends to come from the position where they already know said person is town. As soon as that becomes obvious, said scum tends to get into trouble... and hier here does it without even considering alternatives. When you catch scum with it, you push the accused harder and at some point it transitions from just arguing into knowing they are town and using that. Here hier basically starts out from that viewpoint.

why? I don't have a clue.