NY 189 - Flower Viewing Festival [~fin~]

[AxleGreaser]

I think you're wrong on Sakura at this point. I still don't see her "mistake" as coming from town, and I don't know how Spiffeh can be confused because he convinced me of this and I'm not confused.

explain why it would come from scum.

In my actual mafia playing experience I have learned to trust no one thing(tell/mistake/fuckup). Town make horrendous stuff ups. Especially with their roles.

Please explain what the whole scum plan was during that day.

Sakura had been legit trying to lynch/bus Fire without claiming anything for a while.
IIRC correctly there was enough suspicion stated the day before to explain the track.


Why late in the day, did scum decide nope we really need to bus now. They could have left it a day, and let some potential mislynch happen and then bus tomorrow.
What would have changed the plan from Sakura merely writing a case and busing to fake claiming?

I flat out cant put Sakura as scum UNLESS echo is the partner.

and i cant do that because. How were scum planning on explaining Sakura not getting shot if the other mason wasn't found AND outed.

That for me can make sense, if the partner is Echo but not otherwise.

Thus I don't want to lynch Sakura if Echo is alive for a start off. And then there is my actual read of her play.

[pieguyn]

votecount 7.3

Sakura Hana (2) - Echo Echo, Shazam

Shazam (1) - Sakura Hana
Echo Echo (1) - AxleGreaser

Not voting (2) - Spiffeh, DrippingGoofball

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is October 3, 10:00 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2015-10-03 10:00:00).

[Shazam]

Yeah I dont find the Joat adds much power.
It is role that is hard to claim convincingly.

As there was not a 5 man scum team. my idea of balanced has been definitively shown to be at variance with the balance teams.
Yes coming back to a 4 man scum team did raise red flags for me about the roles.
To be consistent with my earlier estimation of balance, it would be some of the flipped roles that couldn't be in the game.

Once I accept i am wrong enough about what is considered balanced, how much more unlikely is it that they also considered adding the JOAT as well to be balanced?

This is really poor logic, and I don't know how anybody can think this way. This is like someone showing you a jar of mega-sized jelly beans and telling you to guess how many are in it after looking at it for just a few seconds. It looked to you like there were about 10 in there, so you guess 9. They say you're wrong, there's more than that, but you can guess again. So you guess 30 because you were wrong the first time.

You have the ability to estimate what is balanced, as does everyone else. Noticing you were wrong on your first guess should not cause you to abandon all reason and say "well the setup could look like anything now".

However,

In my actual mafia playing experience I have learned to trust no one thing(tell/mistake/fuckup). Town make horrendous stuff ups. Especially with their roles.

Please explain what the whole scum plan was during that day.

Sakura had been legit trying to lynch/bus Fire without claiming anything for a while.
IIRC correctly there was enough suspicion stated the day before to explain the track.


Why late in the day, did scum decide nope we really need to bus now. They could have left it a day, and let some potential mislynch happen and then bus tomorrow.
What would have changed the plan from Sakura merely writing a case and busing to fake claiming?

I flat out cant put Sakura as scum UNLESS echo is the partner.

and i cant do that because. How were scum planning on explaining Sakura not getting shot if the other mason wasn't found AND outed.

That for me can make sense, if the partner is Echo but not otherwise.

Thus I don't want to lynch Sakura if Echo is alive for a start off. And then there is my actual read of her play.

I still agree with this general sentiment. This is where I was at the start of the day. It is typically good to go with your reads of someone's play than other things. I believe this is an exception to that.

I think you're wrong on Sakura at this point. I still don't see her "mistake" as coming from town, and I don't know how Spiffeh can be confused because he convinced me of this and I'm not confused.

explain why it would come from scum.

And this is why I think it's an exception. Sakura's mistake would make much more sense if she did not actually track anyone and messed up the claim that she did. If you haven't actually gotten a guilty, it's just fine and dandy to sheep someone instead of using the guilty. Is there a scum motivation for this? Well...not really, aside from taking advantage of a mislynch. But it's a mistake that's easier for scum to make. Much easier.

[DrippingGoofball]

And this is why I think it's an exception. Sakura's mistake would make much more sense if she did not actually track anyone and messed up the claim that she did. If you haven't actually gotten a guilty, it's just fine and dandy to sheep someone instead of using the guilty. Is there a scum motivation for this? Well...not really, aside from taking advantage of a mislynch. But it's a mistake that's easier for scum to make. Much easier.

Did Sakura START the wagon with that guilty? Or ADD to it?
Who was being wagoned when the guilty came up?

[Sakura Hana]

pisskop i think, lemme double check.

[Sakura Hana]

This was the last vote count before i outed the guilty:

votecount 4.9

Bearbert D (3) - Firebringer, Davsto, Fro99er

Fro99er (2) - Shazam, AxleGreaser
Davsto (1) - Echo Echo
Shazam (1) - Ricastle
Firebringer (1) - Sakura Hana

Not voting (4) - Spiffeh, ika, Bearbert D, Vedith

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is September 15, 20:20 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2015-09-15 20:20:00).

[DrippingGoofball]

Thanks

[DrippingGoofball]

I'd like to hear more from Echo & Shazam.

[Echo Echo]

What would you like to hear about?

My VCA got busted, and you replaced Frogger, a townread of mine (independent of my VCA), and are a renowned VCA user. I'm sheeping you, because I am a firm believer of the merits of VCA.

[Echo Echo]

I'm on V/LA and can only check this thread very periodically. I understand that my failed attempts at VCA could have come across as scum-motivated to Axle. But they aren't. Like I said, I'm still learning.

[Echo Echo]

As it stands, it's MYLO. Everyone must vote correctly to lynch scum today. Your VCA is like a beacon for us. It's what we need. As long as it's right.

I tried to get myself nightkilled yesterday by fakeclaiming mason so that we would have an easier day today in the event the Davsto lynch went south, which I feared. Unfortunately, I didn't communicate well enough with ika, and he got the wrong idea. He claimed and died.

That's all there is.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm on V/LA and can only check this thread very periodically. I understand that my failed attempts at VCA could have come across as scum-motivated to Axle. But they aren't. Like I said, I'm still learning.

My efforts are also painted as scum-motivated by Axle so...

Question to you: who have been the most influential players in the game from your perspective?

[Echo Echo]

I find it very difficult to read Axle's verbal diarrhea without the proper grammar. Truly sorry.

[DrippingGoofball]

I tried to get myself nightkilled yesterday by fakeclaiming mason so that we would have an easier day today in the event the Davsto lynch went south, which I feared. Unfortunately, I didn't communicate well enough with ika, and he got the wrong idea. He claimed and died.

I don't understand. You counterclaimed Mason to the real Mason?

[Echo Echo]

I'm on V/LA and can only check this thread very periodically. I understand that my failed attempts at VCA could have come across as scum-motivated to Axle. But they aren't. Like I said, I'm still learning.

My efforts are also painted as scum-motivated by Axle so...

Question to you: who have been the most influential players in the game from your perspective?

Your predecessor and Sakura were easily the two most influential players. I had a strong early game but my activity dropped. Salamence the dead vig was also a great presence. Davsto and pisskop/Bearbert D were negative influences, and were mislynches, but influences nonetheless.

[Echo Echo]

I tried to get myself nightkilled yesterday by fakeclaiming mason so that we would have an easier day today in the event the Davsto lynch went south, which I feared. Unfortunately, I didn't communicate well enough with ika, and he got the wrong idea. He claimed and died.

I don't understand. You counterclaimed Mason to the real Mason?

Correct.

[Echo Echo]

I tried to get myself nightkilled yesterday by fakeclaiming mason so that we would have an easier day today in the event the Davsto lynch went south, which I feared. Unfortunately, I didn't communicate well enough with ika, and he got the wrong idea. He claimed and died.

I don't understand. You counterclaimed Mason to the real Mason?

Correct.

My activity had to drop to unacceptable levels due to my V/LA, as well as I was regarded as a universal town read by many; the town had pretty much singled out the last mason to myself or ika. I decided to step forward as the VT fakeclaiming Mason to draw the Nightkill.

[Echo Echo]

If ika had took my hint (a naked vote) and kept quiet, I would have died today in peace. There would be a conftown among us. Way easier to play.

[Spiffeh]

Yeah I'm not lynching Echo today.

[DrippingGoofball]

I tried to get myself nightkilled yesterday by fakeclaiming mason so that we would have an easier day today in the event the Davsto lynch went south, which I feared. Unfortunately, I didn't communicate well enough with ika, and he got the wrong idea. He claimed and died.

I don't understand. You counterclaimed Mason to the real Mason?

Correct.

How would that even work, though?

[Sakura Hana]

Hmm... sorry Axle i don't see DGB scum at all, you'd think she'd be pushing hard on Spiffeh (who wouldn't be hard to convince apparently) to vote me if she was scum with Echo.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok so here's where im currently at:
Echo Echo - Votes me and is blindly following DGB's VCA even after Axle said it had flaws (also ftr i'd trust a Titus VCA way more, but that's another subject).
Shazam - Blindly follows Spiffeh's suspicions on me and has kept static reads all game.
Axle - Defends me and sees exactly through my eyes, understands my position and continues to hard defend me.
Spiffeh - Indecisive, keeps saying im scum, but at the very least it isnt blindly following the argument, he doesn't want to make a mistake.
DGB - Keeps trying to sort everything out to solve the game.

So imo, both Echo and Shazam are scum.
Echo says that he thought ika would follow his plan, but Echo clearly stated that he had a scumread on ika beforehand (said 1 of ika/Davsto was scum), even after the naked vote on ika, i highly doubt he actually thought ika would see it as a friendly CC to draw the NK, ika was also scumreading Echo (i think? i remember someone said that). What would have happened if ika didn't CC, and scum had killed somewhere else (or hit me for a no kill), im pretty sure Axle asked this at some point but i don't think i saw a clear answer.
@Spiffeh: Why is echo's "fuck up" towny, but my "fuck up" scummy?

[AxleGreaser]

You have the ability to estimate what is balanced, as does everyone else. Noticing you were wrong on your first guess should not cause you to abandon all reason and say "well the setup could look like anything now".

But do also notice that the difference between adding a JOAT and NOT is not large. AND its only the differnce that changes how unlikely it is from my perspective.

Also Oh goody I am bad. Do you actually argue that the setupo should have had 5 scum and it looked inbalanced to have 4?

or do you think i was wrong.

[AxleGreaser]

Hmm... sorry Axle i don't see DGB scum at all,

I am voting echo today.

[AxleGreaser]

I tried to get myself nightkilled yesterday by fakeclaiming mason so that we would have an easier day today in the event the Davsto lynch went south, which I feared. Unfortunately, I didn't communicate well enough with ika, and he got the wrong idea. He claimed and died.

I don't understand. You counterclaimed Mason to the real Mason?

Correct.

How would that even work, though?

and Echo having claimed mason, and Ika not counter claimed then also got off the Davsto (3323) wagon and naked voted Ika 3346