Open 610: Kill all Townies (Mafia Win)

[Ricastle]

Why the townread? We have only barely posted anything yet. We find this mildly suspicious.
~Yukari

I liked your opening, that's all.

[Vedith]

Look at both wagons, I can promise there's more than likely at least 1 mafia/wolf on each. Now my gut comes in and I am going to push ShadedMelee. It's a hunch and thus gut feeling.

But I only have 1 vote on me which is RVS I believe?

[wgeurts]

VOTE: FireKari

How dare you vote for the firekari!

VOTE: Alma Mater

Ricastle, care to explain how this is more town than other RVS openings.
Or how being "likeable" is a town tell at all.

[wgeurts]

VOTE: wgeurts for being over-reactive

VOTE: wgeurts for being over-reactive

This is an objectively bad vote, over reacting to what?
I'm not scum reading or pushing whoever posted the fluff thing. I'm simply stating I'd like to keep this thread from becoming a spam-shit post fest.
Also:
in b4 omgus accusations.

Going to wait for Shaded Melee to respond to this before potentially voting him.

[wgeurts]

To explain my vote. Vedith and wgeurts opening little debate was essentially the first of many, but the first it's always easier to try to vote one of them off and later claim they looked scummy.

Now as I have thought, a bandwagon is starting on both of them, both of the very obvious bandwagons. I knew they'd turn into a bandwagon before the mafia did and guess who the first two bandwagons are usually on in the beginning? Can anyone guess? It starts with a T and ends with an n. The likelihood of both Vedith and wgeurts being town is actually quite high at this moment in time. But they are also the prime two lynch candidates already this early in the game. Who else would love nothing more than to hope on their wagons in the beginning to get the ball running?

Look at both wagons, I can promise there's more than likely at least 1 mafia/wolf on each. Now my gut comes in and I am going to push ShadedMelee. It's a hunch and thus gut feeling.

This is either fully based off assumptions or he knows something others don't that's seeping into his posts.
Keep in mind as this is multiball scum will be hunting scum.

[Ricastle]

Ricastle, care to explain how this is more town than other RVS openings.
Or how being "likeable" is a town tell at all.

Not really. I will explain, however, that I meant "like" as in liking something for town. Didn't think I'd need to clarify that honestly.

[wgeurts]

Well what part about it do you "like"?
I just see a sarcastic/unserious comment plus an RVS vote. It's the same as every other sarcastic/unserious RVS vote ever.

[vettrock]

Official Vote Count

wgeurts

(3): ShadedMelee, Ricastle, revalista

ShadedMelee

(3): Sinsun1, Maxous, shaddowez

Alma Mater

(2): FireKari, Idiot Savant

Vedith

(1): CityElectric

FireKari

(1): Alma Mater

Idiot Savant

(1): Vedith

Ricastle

(1): davesaz

Not Voting

(3): Dongempire, Lalendra, wgeurts

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-10-13 23:29:26)

[Sinsun1]

Keep in mind as this is multiball scum will be hunting scum.

Exactly, now there is WIFOM. Is my tactic of reading based on town hunting scum, or scum hunting scum? Either way, I'd be deadly for scum if I am correct. The only question that remains, what are my motives for hunting?

Is it to secure the win for the town, or secure the win for one of the two anti-town factions? there's a 3/5 chance of it being the first and 2/5 of it being the later. So would you go with the 60% or the 40%?

[wgeurts]

You're missing the point, your hunt is based off assumptions and has as much relevance to finding scum as quoting statistics of scum lynches day 1 and using it as evidence for a lynch. Worthless.

[wgeurts]

Actually it's so stupid I think I'll votr you.
VOTE: Sinsun1
Still need a responce and explanatiom from Shadow.

[Professor Bozo]

I think wgeurts is experienced enough to know why something like 13 would be posted. That post is not fluff.
The whole exchange between 21 and 24 could be buddies getting some distance between them by having an early spat.

and dave should be expericned enough to know that kinda of fluff posting is entirly known by me

[Professor Bozo]

so lat time i played this game i was seer and we deicded the optimal p,a was for them to have the scum couterpart protect it

im wondeirn gif we should do it here and hoep that they do

[Professor Bozo]

allso im betting i have tosolo my hyda

[Sinsun1]

It doesn't matter if you agree with me and by your own logic, your vote on me is just as useless. What use does it have besides to state that you disagree with my logic? Absolutely nothing.

So moving on, he has yet to reply to the votes beginning to pile up on him. No defense, nor counter. Yet you find it wise to defend him? Surely if he is capable of defending himself, is he not?

[Donempire]

I dont like the wagon on wgeurts. Not saying i trust the guy: i distrust the people on his wagon.
ShadedMelee's first post was useless and mildy duspicious, and we are yet to get an answer from him.
Ricastle is meh. I think hes the most trustworhty person on the wagon but i dont think he has done anything remarkable.
And revelista did nothing other than two posts, one included a non bolded wgeurts vote out of nowhere and the second was a bolded one with 'i dunno.' We should keep an eye on him.

Wtf idiot savant
Grammar dude.

[wgeurts]

It doesn't matter if you agree with me and by your own logic, your vote on me is just as useless. What use does it have besides to state that you disagree with my logic? Absolutely nothing.

So moving on, he has yet to reply to the votes beginning to pile up on him. No defense, nor counter. Yet you find it wise to defend him? Surely if he is capable of defending himself, is he not?

You don't just shrug off an attack like that, unless you're scum reaching the same page should be your goal. Or at least trying to see if I'm town and just mistaken or whatever. Your logic

is

bad, based on assumptions and fallacious. You're basically saying "oh because most day 1 wagons are one town me and whoever else are town". Also I'm not defending shadowMelee, some votes on him look opportunistic and I'm awaiting a responce before jumping to conclusions.
Happy with my vote.

[Donempire]

So without further ado:

VOTE: revalista

This vote will probably stay for a while unless someone scummier comes up. Why did you decided to vote wgeurts? "I dont know" isnt a good answer.
And @shadedmelee, do you have anything else to support your scumread on wgeurts? Because right now it has an exact quality level of a rvs vote.

Corrected spelling of vote.

[Sinsun1]

Why would I have to see if you're town? For now my read on you for this phase is already stated. Maybe tomorrow we'll have more evidence. Day 1 is all shitty reads if you want to go that far. But using one's own experience to define what they do D1 is usually a smart thing to do. It helps keep mislynches down when they can recognize the D1 patterns.

You're no more clear than he is, that being said, why push you when we have no facts on the table as of yet that are valuable? All we have are votes flinging off and the reasons behind them. Right now I am on my hunch and Dongempire is on his hunch. Either of our hunches could be correct, or both could be correct/wrong. It's all part of scum hunting. So if you're happy with your vote for voting someone who is attempting to scum hunt early on Day 1, then perhaps you need to evaluate if you believe it's right. Is it just because you don't like my reason or do you think that by my reason I am likely scum for using it?

[wgeurts]

People seem to not be seeing what I am as it's completely being ignored so here's a large, loud post to make myself seem more convincing.

To explain my vote. Vedith and wgeurts opening little debate was essentially the first of many, but the first it's always easier to try to vote one of them off and later claim they looked scummy.

To start off with, our debate wasn't even content related. It was on the topic of more/less posts/content per post and there was nothing to be drawn "you're scum wise". I wasn't calling vedith scummy (nor casting suspicion) and neither was he. This just fully debunks the whole top paragraph quoted.

Now as I have thought, a bandwagon is starting on both of them, both of the very obvious bandwagons.

I knew they'd turn into a bandwagon before the mafia did

To start off, why would you predict wagons as town. Then how the fudge does he know the second? Also the fact he fails to mention werewolves could be hint that he knows more than we do. As town you don't need to predict bandwagons, nor do you just randomly assume that two people are town for no reason other than most people wagoned at this time are town.

and guess who the first two bandwagons are usually on in the beginning? Can anyone guess? It starts with a T and ends with an n. The likelihood of both Vedith and wgeurts being town is actually quite high at this moment in time. But they are also the prime two lynch candidates already this early in the game.

This whole paragraph has zero evidence, is being used a foundation for possible later associative tells (umm, bad?) and once again it's built on assumptions. His whole posts reeks of being false and there's a vague trace of him knowing more than town should.

Who else would love nothing more than to hope on their wagons in the beginning to get the ball running?

Not scum? The longer town dilly dallys the longer they don't have to do any work. Further more this seems like an empty town cred cry like "Scum would vote them but look at me I'm not voting them so I must be town".

Look at both wagons, I can promise there's more than likely at least 1 mafia/wolf on each. Now my gut comes in and I am going to push ShadedMelee. It's a hunch and thus gut feeling.

Once again how does he have this certainty based off statistics for goodness sake? It's either horrific town play or scum play. Take your pick.

[FireKari]

To explain my vote. Vedith and wgeurts opening little debate was essentially the first of many, but the first it's always easier to try to vote one of them off and later claim they looked scummy.

Now as I have thought, a bandwagon is starting on both of them, both of the very obvious bandwagons. I knew they'd turn into a bandwagon before the mafia did and guess who the first two bandwagons are usually on in the beginning? Can anyone guess? It starts with a T and ends with an n. The likelihood of both Vedith and wgeurts being town is actually quite high at this moment in time. But they are also the prime two lynch candidates already this early in the game. Who else would love nothing more than to hope on their wagons in the beginning to get the ball running?

Look at both wagons, I can promise there's more than likely at least 1 mafia/wolf on each. Now my gut comes in and I am going to push ShadedMelee. It's a hunch and thus gut feeling.

Alignment indicative? Being bandwagoned early or being on an early bandwagon? Probably not, though the motivations behind the actions could be informative. We have personally started a self-wagon in rvs via self-vote before as town lol, mostly just to get the game going. Think most of the people on that wagon were town, so wasn't a very useful slayer's gambit honeypot, but then again perhaps we just need to work on our reading skills. What we learned is that both town and scum alike will jump at shiny baits when given the chance, depending on the person.. What a complex game this is..

Anyways, in our limited experience, we don't recall ever seeing an rvs bandwagon end in a lynch. It probably has happened, but we've never seen it. So we think perhaps scum would be smart to get a self wagon going early. Either way, being wagoned or wagoning someone else is useful to kickstart the game out of rvs, and we do not think either side is alignment indicative on it's own. Perhaps better to focus on the motivations, the small details, and the things between lines left unsaid.
~Yukari

[wgeurts]

Why would I have to see if you're town? For now my read on you for this phase is already stated. Maybe tomorrow we'll have more evidence. Day 1 is all shitty reads if you want to go that far. But using one's own experience to define what they do D1 is usually a smart thing to do. It helps keep mislynches down when they can recognize the D1 patterns.

You're certain I'm town because I'm getting wagoned in rvs and argued about post numbers earlier? I call bogus. Stop trying to shake me off by saying "you're town so chill" or other statements like that. There's no way your town read on me and vedith is this solid.

You're no more clear than he is, that being said, why push you when we have no facts on the table as of yet that are valuable? All we have are votes flinging off and the reasons behind them. Right now I am on my hunch and Dongempire is on his hunch. Either of our hunches could be correct, or both could be correct/wrong. It's all part of scum hunting. So if you're happy with your vote for voting someone who is attempting to scum hunt early on Day 1, then perhaps you need to evaluate if you believe it's right. Is it just because you don't like my reason or do you think that by my reason I am likely scum for using it?

Using statistics isn't scum hunting.
Have you questioned anyone?
Have you pushed anyone?
No.
Have you used statistics to call be certain town?
Have you tried to shake me off?
Yes.
Indeed why push anybody? That's not how this game works. We have evidence, use it, push someone and make more. Then we may find scum.

[wgeurts]

Firekari talk with me.

[Sinsun1]

I'm not even going to bother debating your argument because both, you are not seeing what I am seeing and I have my read for you placed for now, I'm not going to bother wasting pages debating on why I have the read I do, I just do, deal with it.

But I will say, it does not matter that I did not mention werewolves, that seems to be uncharitable of what I am saying or what I mean. To me both Werewolves and Mafia are mafias/baddies/scum. I don't need to refer to both of them when I am in general talking about the informed minorities against the uninformed majority. Now, if I specifically said Werewolves and not mafias, then something might be up, but mafia is just in general "informed minorities"/baddies.

If I wanted town credit, I'd be fighting for it, instead, I am just sitting back and making observational comments and votes based on my gut and observations. Heck, why bother for town credit? I find that when I try going for town credit people say I am doing "horrific town play" or of the similar. What's horrific about it? The fact that you disagree?

You know, if you are town and you believe I am scum, perhaps you should sit back and see who guns for me. Because if I am indeed scum, then the other faction will want me gone. So that's at least 3 people wanting me dead whether I am the other faction or I am town. Either way, no matter which I am, it is better to watch how the others react to me than set upon yourself to react in a rather rash way.

FP'd twice.

You'll find I am very chill. This is a game, I am not going to have a heart attack in real life because I got something wrong and I am not being rewarded with gold if I am right.

So my vote no longer counts as pushing? 2 other votes on him seem to disagree with that. You're quick to want the pressure to change though, why is that?

[FireKari]

Firekari talk with me.

Read on you is leaning town for now, what would you like to discuss?
Also:
VOTE: Sinsun1
~Yukari