Three-Pronged Trouser God Mafia GAME OVER- Happy Ending?

[masters of fart]

Even-night investigations are not-sane. This means we could be Naive, Random, Insane, but I'm assuming since we are the only non-faction specific cops that we are either naive or random.

Umm why did you rule out insane?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Guys, this is getting us nowhere.

Lynch voided.

[Imperium]

Your biggest reason for voting The Irish Pope was because PE claimed a 100% accuracy rate at reading him and you backed it up enthusiastically even asking other people to trust that.

Where did you get the impression that I was sheeping Mara on the TiP read when I actually didn't say anything even close to that? The case I provided on him is in 999/1000 and nowhere in that duo of posts is there a mention of "Mara can read TiP 100%". I did ask him how he felt about her voting him because they have a strange connection, but that certainly doesn't translate into me sheeping Mara.

I also have no idea where you're getting the "enthusiastically asking other people to trust that" part?? Can you quote where I told or implied that someone should follow Mara's 100% read on TiP?

Never mind the last post. So, you received a message from the mod confirming TIP as town?

Mara prayed that TiP's alignment would be revealed to her. Instead, TiP's alignment was revealed to us.
It would be doubly bastard if Trouser Gods both redirected her prayer AND gave a false result.

What if scum was vanillized and decided not to out?

If scum got vanillaized and decided not to out, then they would reveal themselves as scum to the other team. I also see no reason why scum wouldn't out as vanillaized in order to gain towncred and become a less likely nightkill. Why should this possibility be significant to me?

Bacde’s shock at not being believed and insistence that Imperium was scum was a strong town tell

lmao who the fuck is following imperium, the guy who was tracked to the dead body

Super convenient how you've been the only person I've enjoyed voting today, and somehow you find a way to OMGUS me

Nacho is scum here this isn't his town play

town Nacho wouldn't be pulling this shit on me, he'd be much more willing to interact with me and not try to subversively get weaker members of the town to vote me

GUYS IM CONFIRMED TO NOT HAVE KILLED ANYONE THATS LITERALLY A SOFT-INNO REPORT THE "EVIDENCE" FOR ME BEING A VANILLAIZER IS WEAK AS HELL AND ANYONE WHO IS TRYING TO LYNCH ME BECAUSE IM "VANILLIZER" IS IGNORING THE MUCH STRONGER EVIDENCE THAT IM TOWN AS SHIT AND IS THUS TERRIBLE AT MAFIA

ALSO ANYONE WHO SAYS "VANILLIZER" IS DANGEROUS ROLE AND NEEDS TO BE ELIMINATED IS DUMB AS HELL FOR NOT PRIORITIZING LYNCHING KILLING SCUM

IM NOT VANILLIZER AND EVEN IF I WAS IT WOULD BE RETARDED TO TRY TO LYNCH ME FOR IT RATHER THAN LYNCHING FOR KILLING SCUM

First of all, while I acknowledge that good conviction in the face of an attacker can be a decent town tell based on how it happens, OMGUS isn't a town tell. It's OMGUS. Secondly, Bacde's response to us was a load of bullshit; as soon as we brought forward why we thought he was probably a good lynch, his response is to discredit us, scream about the "soft inno" nonsense, then provide an argument that we should be lynching a killing role over a mafia vanillaizer which makes no sense and looks absolutely terrible for what I hope are obvious reasons.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable or unbelievable for me to attack someone when they're spouting shit like that unless you believe for some reason that his attack was believable for any reason beyond "his conviction looked good" or maybe even explain why his conviction looked good because the towniest part of that statement was "Nacho you should have interacted with me more" which is really, really dumb considering voting someone and calling for their lynch doesn't equal not interacting them.

Acting like it makes them town is just the icing on the cake. They are overemphasizing the fact that someone watched Slobber as though it is conclusive evidence that clears them. It is not unlikely for a watcher to make bad night action choices. But the watcher-guilty is only about 20% of the reason I scumread them. Their reaction to that guilty, their push on Bacde, and their overall play are a much bigger part of it.

My argument was that the watcher guilty on us was weird as hell.
It would be one thing if we were followed to a Gorkington kill and then tried to claim redirected after the fact.
It's another thing when we're redirected and hint pretty strongly at the beginning of the day, an amnesiac watch result (that's never appeared in the game) appears that shows us visiting Slobberknocker and not a single person in the game wants to come forward and go "hey that was my result". A large part of why I was scum reading Bacde is because he ignored ALL of the circumstances surrounding the guilty and basically put his fingers in his ears and pretended none of it existed; it would be far different if he went "yeah it's weird but Occam's razor", but he didn't, he just pretended it was a perfectly fine guilty and why would anyone ever look anywhere else, which looked a hell of a lot like he was the scum who was trying to frame us.

They try to explain away the kill by citing bizarre roles and convoluted night actions none of which I buy over Occam’s razor.

The simplest explanation for what happened last night is that scum redirected a claimed even-night amnesiac cop that was actually submitting the kill to slobberknocker on an odd night on the same night a town decided to amnesiac watch slobberknocker after not using their amnesiac watch for two nights (why???) and then never outing. This is a very convoluted set of night actions; if you were town in our shoes looking at something like that, are you telling me your speculation for what happened wouldn't be a little bit crazy? Do you have a simpler explanation for what happened to us?

Their D1 contribution can be summed up as buddying Profgessor Emotion and sheeping their read on The Irish Pope.

(this never happened)

Their D2 contribution by showing up after the guilty on Titus and yelling for her lynch which any borderline competent scum player is capable of.

(this is also what town should do)

Their D3 contribution by a weak post where they list a few possible partners for Titus with no follow-up and an offer to hammer Saint whose lynch was set in stone.

(fair)

They'd probably be pretty low on the list of people scum are threatened by so the frame theory doesn’t fly. This low profile may even be intentional as they wouldn’t want the other scumteam to kill them which makes more sense than a cop lying low in a bastard game with lots of roles.

I disagree with this.

holy god this case is long

[Imperium]

Their townread on DGB looked like they wanted to influence her response (she's town if she buys their story, scum if she calls bullshit on them) and reads as a tool to exert psychological control.

"A tool to exert psychological control" is a phrase that needs to be brought out into the open to sort of emphasize how off the pale this case is in general.

As for our townread on DGB, we thought that DGB actually trying to sort out the guilty instead of blindly blitzing us due to it seemed town.

DGB as scum receiving that result would have no motivation not to push us (if you're scum and you get a guilty on someone not on your team, you push the fuck out of it).
DGB as scum faking that result would have no motivation not to push us (why fake something like that if she wasn't going for the lynch?).

DGB can also get away with pushing that sort of result based on people's perception of her old meta. Instead, she questioned it and actually thought about what was going on which seems more genuine and has town motivation.'

They’ve defended themselves vigorously, shoved a Bacde lynch through, succeeded, and turned back to lurking again. They read like experienced scum players who can post passable content when needed but fall into the common trap of having no passion for figuring out the game unless their survival is threatened at which point, they deliver more rhetoric under it subsides.

The alternate narrative to this is that we posted in thread and were motivated when cool things were happening and then stopped being as involved in thread when cool things stopped happening.

[Imperium]

would like warped's thoughts on xtoxm.
otherwise that case warped just made is basically better than anything anyone has said this game.

what was your favorite point?

So...you give me the investigate results...knowing I (and everyone else in the game) know you get other-than-sane results on even nights...while scum reading me...even though I could just say whatever I wanted about said results. Walk me through the town thought process on that one, Nacho.

Oh. And there's exactly ONE correct answer.

You lost some town points after you were jail kept on the first night with no kills. Hard to believe, I know.

Even-night investigations are not-sane. This means we could be Naive, Random, Insane, but I'm assuming since we are the only non-faction specific cops that we are either naive or random.

Umm why did you rule out insane?

I think it's the least likely of the three for the balance reasons cited in that quoted post.

[Imperium]

Vote: Xtoxm

[Voidedmafia]

@ Voided:

1) Bacde oversimplifying the guilty isn't a scumtell and I wouldn't have found it scummy even if I was there real time. Imperium was explaining away the guilty on them through a convoluted set of night actions that would go over most people's heads. It is plausible for a townie to think "I'm not going through this mumbo-jumbo, you're scum" without explicitly rebutting each and every explanation. Humans don't have unlimited patience and not everyone's going to engage the nitty-gritty of every argument. Bacde certainly didn't come across as a patient and methodical player. Thinking he has to be scum for it is a pretty big stretch for town to make. But it makes a lot of sense as scum getting rid of someone who they know will stand his ground on his read of Imperium and in general be a thorn on their side.

2) I disagree with Bacde that 3 kills on a night he was jailed made him town. I think such a statement is more likely to come from scum than town but it was outweighed by all of Bacde's townie posting. With Imperium, it is another reason I find them scummy in addition to their other scummy posting. Beyond that, it is gut/intuition. Bacde's presentation and tone suggested he believed what he was saying. Imperium's came across as a way they planned to talk themselves out of trouble.

3) I've caught up with D5 now. I don't see the same passion in figuring things out that they seemed to have D4. Their only real push in this entire game that they pursued with conviction was on a townie who wasn't buying what they were selling. It was a totally reactive push. I'd expect that from noob-town but for an experienced player like Imperium, it sticks out. It was a push they made to advance their agenda.

I'll accept #1, and #2 we'll have to agree to disagree on as I believed in the essential opposite of you (Bacde was trying to outyell imp's case). As for 3, though, I feel that some of that is because there's not as much pressure on them now as there was. Sure, they shouldn't stop trying to scumhunt, but unless they're being hyper-active on the threshold of being lynched and then essentially dip into #proddodgetowin I don't think that a downtick in passion or pressure is necessarily a scum indicator.

Guys, this is getting us nowhere.

Lynch xtoxm.

Fix'd for you. Maybe you won't be ignored now.

[Xtoxm]

Really don't have the heart for this game. Too many people jumping on every fucking thing I say to call me scum. People who should know me better calling me scum. A gamethrowing troll occupying a slot. Lynching my role at this stage of the game is really epicly retarded. But I guess this is what happens in multiball, too much scum so nothing gets done.

Nacho, Farside and DGB should all know that i'm town here so the simple fact they are mislynching me is EXTREMELY suspect. Not that the dead guy ever gets listened to.

N1 Spiff spent the night with TIP
N4 Voided spent the night alone

VOTE: XTOXM

[Xtoxm]

DGB especially, she has never mislynched me before this game afaik.

[Spiffeh]

Wasn't Voided inspected by Imperium last night?

Why are you waiting until now to out this information?

[Xtoxm]

Go fuck yourself.

[Spiffeh]

I don't think that question really warranted that response LOL

[Warped]

Nacho, Farside and DGB should all know that i'm town here so the simple fact they are mislynching me is EXTREMELY suspect. Not that the dead guy ever gets listened to.
VOTE: XTOXM

Then why not vote Imperium?

[Spiffeh]

I mean I'm sorry that you are expected to play a game you signed up for?

[Voidedmafia]

Really don't have the heart for this game. Too many people jumping on every fucking thing I say to call me scum. People who should know me better calling me scum. A gamethrowing troll occupying a slot. Lynching my role at this stage of the game is really epicly retarded. But I guess this is what happens in multiball, too much scum so nothing gets done.

Nacho, Farside and DGB should all know that i'm town here so the simple fact they are mislynching me is EXTREMELY suspect. Not that the dead guy ever gets listened to.

N1 Spiff spent the night with TIP
N4 Voided spent the night alone

VOTE: XTOXM

Hold on, hold on.

You're saying you targeted me, and no one showed up?

[Voidedmafia]

(But really, don't self-vote.)

[Imperium]

I thought he was a stalker, or follower, but if he can tell who can be with whom and is claiming that voided was alone then lynch it now because lol.

The these players can read me and it's a scum claim if they're scum reading me thing is weak unless there's a really strong precedent and even then games run long, emotions get heated and paranoia sets in. Hell there was a player in tales of you who was convinced I was scum for misreading him; I was town paranoid. In swag town, Oversoul tried to argue i was confirmed scum for scum reading him, I was town confused. I'd use that argument against Faraday because he's never misread me or Nacho because he reads me really well, but they still get paranoid and show concern, so the fact that xtoxm is like "I'm not doing shit, but people should be able to read the absence of me doing shit should make them think I'm town. And the thing with xtoxm is that nacho told me how much he respects him as a player and how glad he is that he's back and playing again, so that he really is scum reading him means something. Like fucking do something. If you're town, show us.

[Imperium]

Nacho, Farside and DGB should all know that i'm town here so the simple fact they are mislynching me is EXTREMELY suspect. Not that the dead guy ever gets listened to.
VOTE: XTOXM

Then why not vote Imperium?

Why not respond to nacho's response to your "case"?

[Jaqen Hghar]

So...you give me the investigate results...knowing I (and everyone else in the game) know you get other-than-sane results on even nights...while scum reading me...even though I could just say whatever I wanted about said results. Walk me through the town thought process on that one, Nacho.

Oh. And there's exactly ONE correct answer.

You lost some town points after you were jail kept on the first night with no kills. Hard to believe, I know.

And.... that wasn't it

VOTE: Imperium

I guess it's totally inconceivable for scum to kill the guy who was neighbors with their dead buddy. Yeah. That never happens...

[Spiffeh]

Jaqen you confirmed you got a result from Imperium about Voided right?

Doesn't that mean you know Xtoxm is lying about no one targeting Voided last night?

[Spiffeh]

Someone let me know if I'm not understanding something.

[Gorkington]

and n2 and n3?

[Imperium]

So...you give me the investigate results...knowing I (and everyone else in the game) know you get other-than-sane results on even nights...while scum reading me...even though I could just say whatever I wanted about said results. Walk me through the town thought process on that one, Nacho.

Oh. And there's exactly ONE correct answer.

You lost some town points after you were jail kept on the first night with no kills. Hard to believe, I know.

And.... that wasn't it

VOTE: Imperium

I guess it's totally inconceivable for scum to kill the guy who was neighbors with their dead buddy. Yeah. That never happens...

What was your claim again?

Because didn't you essentially claim vanilla now?

This is mutliball. You're not on Fresh's team, but there is absolutely nothing precluding you from being Titus' partner.

You'll also note we are not voting you. We are considering the possibilities and trying to process your claim, but with there being two missing kills last night and you being jailed...it shakes the sheen off of the town read we had last night.

[Xtoxm]

no action submitted. been hiding that i'm limited shot in the hope of drawing NK. wanted to save my shots for endgame, but by last night i realised my lynch was inevitable so i used one on voided.

[Gorkington]

ah.
so.
the "my role is too broken to lynch at this point" stuff was just bullshit then?