Three-Pronged Trouser God Mafia GAME OVER- Happy Ending?

[Imperium]

UNVOTE:

[Xtoxm]

well i've still been lynched before using all my shots so no?

[Xtoxm]

and thats not really relevant anyway seeing as i claimed full power

[Spiffeh]

Why me N1 and why Voided last night?

[Imperium]

Jaqen you confirmed you got a result from Imperium about Voided right?

Doesn't that mean you know Xtoxm is lying about no one targeting Voided last night?

good fucking question.

[Gorkington]

your incredulous attitude at being pushed when your towngame is clearly capable of being better than this is hard to fathom.
its also kind of hard to fathom you being horrifically overdefensive and waving your role around like some defusing mechanism and then openly coming forward with that x-shot business so easily.
theres also that jaqen/imperium are confirming that your action last night is wrong.
and youre not responding to that.
so.

[Imperium]

But xtoxm could you clarify your role and limitations? Night one and four is ???

[Imperium]

Can you also clarify what your actual role means? You say voided spend the night alone, but what does that mean?

[Imperium]

So...you give me the investigate results...knowing I (and everyone else in the game) know you get other-than-sane results on even nights...while scum reading me...even though I could just say whatever I wanted about said results. Walk me through the town thought process on that one, Nacho.

Oh. And there's exactly ONE correct answer.

You lost some town points after you were jail kept on the first night with no kills. Hard to believe, I know.

And.... that wasn't it

VOTE: Imperium

I guess it's totally inconceivable for scum to kill the guy who was neighbors with their dead buddy. Yeah. That never happens...

So "warped" are you going to question something that makes logical sense but doesn't fit your rhetoric or you just gonna flow?

[Imperium]

Nacho, Farside and DGB should all know that i'm town here so the simple fact they are mislynching me is EXTREMELY suspect. Not that the dead guy ever gets listened to.
VOTE: XTOXM

Then why not vote Imperium?

I'd like to point out that "warped" here has ignored everything to try to further his half-baked rhetoric and not actually engage with the rebuttals to his points that were mostly mistrepresentations of what actually happened.

[God of Power Outlets]

Sex History Lesson 101:
* In 1609, a doctor named Johannes Jacob Wecker reported finding a corpse in Bologna with two penises. Since then, about 100 cases have been reported. Including that guy on reddit.
* Catherine the Great owned a sex salon with special furniture.
* Mozart once wrote a song called "Lick me in the Ass."

Vote Count #3

Xtoxm (6) - Voidedmafia, farside22, Spiffeh, DrippingGoofball, Misaka Network, Xtoxm
Imperium (3) - Warped, Gorkington, Jaqen Hghar
Voidedmafia (2) - masters of fart, St. Constantine the Hermit
Jaqen Hghar (1) - dramonic

With 15 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch

[Imperium]

So...you give me the investigate results...knowing I (and everyone else in the game) know you get other-than-sane results on even nights...while scum reading me...even though I could just say whatever I wanted about said results. Walk me through the town thought process on that one, Nacho.

Oh. And there's exactly ONE correct answer.

You lost some town points after you were jail kept on the first night with no kills. Hard to believe, I know.

And.... that wasn't it

VOTE: Imperium

I guess it's totally inconceivable for scum to kill the guy who was neighbors with their dead buddy. Yeah. That never happens...

I'm trying to decide if this is a legitimate scum slip or not. Obviously he's not fresh's partner, but there were two missing night kills last night. Why would he only assume fresh's partner would try to kill him?

Am I reading too much into this? I feel like I'm worrying about this too much, maybe.

[Warped]

Where did you get the impression that I was sheeping Mara on the TiP read when I actually didn't say anything even close to that? The case I provided on him is in 999/1000 and nowhere in that duo of posts is there a mention of "Mara can read TiP 100%". I did ask him how he felt about her voting him because they have a strange connection, but that certainly doesn't translate into me sheeping Mara.

I also have no idea where you're getting the "enthusiastically asking other people to trust that" part?? Can you quote where I told or implied that someone should follow Mara's 100% read on TiP?

You say here that you are willing to help out with the TIP wagon.

When you thought Titus was dismissing PE's read, you tell her to enquire upon it and re-iterate that Mara knows what she's talking about.

If scum got vanillaized and decided not to out, then they would reveal themselves as scum to the other team. I also see no reason why scum wouldn't out as vanillaized in order to gain towncred and become a less likely nightkill. Why should this possibility be significant to me?

What do you think happened now that Bacde was town? A townie that had a weird fake watcher-guilty on them would be inclined to consider the possibility of roles being screwed up but you never spared a thought for that which seems more like you desperately wanted Bacde off your back.

First of all, while I acknowledge that good conviction in the face of an attacker can be a decent town tell based on how it happens, OMGUS isn't a town tell. It's OMGUS. Secondly, Bacde's response to us was a load of bullshit; as soon as we brought forward why we thought he was probably a good lynch, his response is to discredit us, scream about the "soft inno" nonsense, then provide an argument that we should be lynching a killing role over a mafia vanillaizer which makes no sense and looks absolutely terrible for what I hope are obvious reasons.

My views on OMGUS are a lot more nuanced than "it's a towntell/scumtell." But he wasn't OMGUSing you, it was the other way around. He pushed you first. The way he entered the game abrasively pushing players was town. The way he stuck to his guns in the face of pressure was town. The way he flailed under pressure was town. You were nitpicking his argument and pointing out "flaws" while ignoring the bigger picture which is

exactly

what I expect scum players to do.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable or unbelievable for me to attack someone when they're spouting shit like that unless you believe for some reason that his attack was believable for any reason beyond "his conviction looked good" or maybe even explain why his conviction looked good because the towniest part of that statement was "Nacho you should have interacted with me more" which is really, really dumb considering voting someone and calling for their lynch doesn't equal not interacting them.

I'm sure what he meant was that he'd expect more thought and care put into figuring out his alignment - of which you did remarkably little.

A large part of why I was scum reading Bacde is because he ignored ALL of the circumstances surrounding the guilty and basically put his fingers in his ears and pretended none of it existed

This isn't scummy. I see plenty of town motive to not overthink the results and try to address each nitpicky, convoluted explanation you have. Most people don't have the patience for it. If you played with Bacde before, you'd have realized that already. I realized that simply by reading his posts in this game.

The alternate narrative to this is that we posted in thread and were motivated when cool things were happening and then stopped being as involved in thread when cool things stopped happening.

Right. When you are threatened, you amp up the activity and content and lynch the person who's most a threat to your survival. When it is not, you keep a low profile and let someone else get lynched. D1 lynch on Vezok, D3 on Saint, and now the wagon on Xtoxm. You have no strong opinions or incisive scumhunting. You're passively floating through the game.

[Spiffeh]

Warped what do you think about Jaqen confirming Imperium's action and Xtoxm's results directly contradicting that?

[Imperium]

Warped what do you think about Jaqen confirming Imperium's action and Xtoxm's results directly contradicting that?

"warped" won't care because "warped" has a vendetta.

[Warped]

Warped what do you think about Jaqen confirming Imperium's action and Xtoxm's results directly contradicting that?

This game is bastard. I wouldn't consider role information conclusive over play-based reasons. The game advertisement specifically says that may be moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated. Xtoxm could unknowingly be a naive watcher on certain nights for all I know. Play-wise, I have him as null and Imperium as scum so that's where I'm voting.

[Warped]

Warped what do you think about Jaqen confirming Imperium's action and Xtoxm's results directly contradicting that?

"warped" won't care because "warped" has a vendetta.

I think you are scum because the evidence suggests you are scum. Claiming I have a "vendetta" is silly.

[Spiffeh]

I think crying "bastard game" is a really ridiculous reason to ignore something this glaring tbh

But I was wrong about the vanilla cop being a thing so idk

Xtoxm is really scummy otherwise anyway.

[Imperium]

Where did you get the impression that I was sheeping Mara on the TiP read when I actually didn't say anything even close to that? The case I provided on him is in 999/1000 and nowhere in that duo of posts is there a mention of "Mara can read TiP 100%". I did ask him how he felt about her voting him because they have a strange connection, but that certainly doesn't translate into me sheeping Mara.

I also have no idea where you're getting the "enthusiastically asking other people to trust that" part?? Can you quote where I told or implied that someone should follow Mara's 100% read on TiP?

You say here that you are willing to help out with the TIP wagon.

When you thought Titus was dismissing PE's read, you tell her to enquire upon it and re-iterate that Mara knows what she's talking about.

Being willing to help out wagon early day one when someone believes they can read someone 100% is smart.

I had a reason for asking Titus that question, but it was more me trying to read Titus. Onions, they have layers "warped".

If scum got vanillaized and decided not to out, then they would reveal themselves as scum to the other team. I also see no reason why scum wouldn't out as vanillaized in order to gain towncred and become a less likely nightkill. Why should this possibility be significant to me?

What do you think happened now that Bacde was town? A townie that had a weird fake watcher-guilty on them would be inclined to consider the possibility of roles being screwed up but you never spared a thought for that which seems more like you desperately wanted Bacde off your back.[/quote]

Did we never at all? Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure that my initial reaction was that Bacde was probable scum due to role but maybe innocent due to interaction and then his behavior felt more and more like scum. I mean I'm pretty sure that's how it went but yeah, let's go with your "desperate" rhetoric.

But I'd like for you to point out where we never ever considered Bacde town in the whole situation. OH WAIT.

First of all, while I acknowledge that good conviction in the face of an attacker can be a decent town tell based on how it happens, OMGUS isn't a town tell. It's OMGUS. Secondly, Bacde's response to us was a load of bullshit; as soon as we brought forward why we thought he was probably a good lynch, his response is to discredit us, scream about the "soft inno" nonsense, then provide an argument that we should be lynching a killing role over a mafia vanillaizer which makes no sense and looks absolutely terrible for what I hope are obvious reasons.

My views on OMGUS are a lot more nuanced than "it's a towntell/scumtell." But he wasn't OMGUSing you, it was the other way around. He pushed you first. The way he entered the game abrasively pushing players was town. The way he stuck to his guns in the face of pressure was town. The way he flailed under pressure was town. You were nitpicking his argument and pointing out "flaws" while ignoring the bigger picture which is

exactly

what I expect scum players to do.

How wasn't our sticking to our guns equal town? How didn't our flailing equal town? You try to claim that he was abrasive and so he was town, but we were aggressive and so we were scum. That's you arguing out the both sides of your mouth in your rhetorical attempt to try to get us lynched.


Is it more nuanced, really? Can you point to some games here or hey if you play offsite that have you arguing your omgus theories? That'd be swell.

Abrasive is not town. You can not argue that his abrasiveness is town and argue that our aggressive push back is scum because again it is talking outside of both sides of your mouth. There was no nitpicking involved. He ignored extremely important aspects of the information available. Hi! That night was then only night there was a tracker/watcher message out there and not one person claimed it. That means, especially in a bastard game, that the chance for fuckery is high. If that was a town tracker/watcher result they would have outed it because there wouldn't be any reason not to. You might note that there is not one today. GEE I WONDER WHY NOT. That means that was from scum. Bacde not considering any of that was scummy as hell while claiming that he was confirmed town while being jailed when there were kills made.

Like this isn't rocket science. I wonder why you're convoluting the issue.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable or unbelievable for me to attack someone when they're spouting shit like that unless you believe for some reason that his attack was believable for any reason beyond "his conviction looked good" or maybe even explain why his conviction looked good because the towniest part of that statement was "Nacho you should have interacted with me more" which is really, really dumb considering voting someone and calling for their lynch doesn't equal not interacting them.

I'm sure what he meant was that he'd expect more thought and care put into figuring out his alignment - of which you did remarkably little.

Really, did we, as you suggest just push him without concern??? Cause I remember thinking he was more likely town during the day until he started making his terrible arguments I didn't think came from town.

A large part of why I was scum reading Bacde is because he ignored ALL of the circumstances surrounding the guilty and basically put his fingers in his ears and pretended none of it existed

This isn't scummy. I see plenty of town motive to not overthink the results and try to address each nitpicky, convoluted explanation you have. Most people don't have the patience for it. If you played with Bacde before, you'd have realized that already. I realized that simply by reading his posts in this game.

That's nice. We were wrong. But one of the biggest mistakes that people make time and time again is watching a game from outside is thinking that everything is cut and dry when they have no emotional stake in it. Like that person in Tales of You that believed I was scum for scum reading him, he thought that because he was emotionally involved. Anyone from the outside would have seen that hey I had some reason for my argument or maybe not who knows. The fact is that we feel the way we feel in arguments and sometimes we're wrong. Hell I made the greatest stink on Forest Fire over Nacho getting paranoid of me when I thought he should know better. We were both town. This is an imperfect game.

The alternate narrative to this is that we posted in thread and were motivated when cool things were happening and then stopped being as involved in thread when cool things stopped happening.

Right. When you are threatened, you amp up the activity and content and lynch the person who's most a threat to your survival. When it is not, you keep a low profile and let someone else get lynched. D1 lynch on Vezok, D3 on Saint, and now the wagon on Xtoxm. You have no strong opinions or incisive scumhunting. You're passively floating through the game.

I'm pretty sure I didn't have a read on Vezok day one because I wasn't completely caught up yet. The rest I was wrong on. And hey, yeah I'm wrong. I have my games. shit Nacho and I completely fucked up a micro recently, but yeah us or me being wrong is a scum tell. Someone as invested as meta as you are should recognize the ebbs and flows.

[Imperium]

Warped what do you think about Jaqen confirming Imperium's action and Xtoxm's results directly contradicting that?

"warped" won't care because "warped" has a vendetta.

I think you are scum because the evidence suggests you are scum. Claiming I have a "vendetta" is silly.

Sure thing "warped".

[Imperium]

Warped what do you think about Jaqen confirming Imperium's action and Xtoxm's results directly contradicting that?

This game is bastard. I wouldn't consider role information conclusive over play-based reasons. The game advertisement specifically says that may be moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated. Xtoxm could unknowingly be a naive watcher on certain nights for all I know. Play-wise, I have him as null and Imperium as scum so that's where I'm voting.

So then do you not believe our mod information that misaka network is town?

Do you think that one night of tracker/watcher results is a mod lie? Would you like to explain why the fuck there are no other explanations of that kind??? Would you like to explain why no one has claimed that result?

Yeah, I'd ignore that too if I were you. Your case is soo much stronger when you ignore facts.

Are you actually arguing that xtoxm is unknowingly a naive watcher while trying to argue an occam's razor argument against us, because really? Does it only apply when convenient for your case or...?

[Imperium]

Anyway, I'm not going to let "warped" get in the way of me figuring this game out.

[Imperium]

Unvote

Vote: ZZZX

Too many posts for a day 1. Has to be scum.

His second vote :/

[Warped]

Did we never at all? Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure that my initial reaction was that Bacde was probable scum due to role but maybe innocent due to interaction and then his behavior felt more and more like scum. I mean I'm pretty sure that's how it went but yeah, let's go with your "desperate" rhetoric.

So you hedged your read on Bacde both ways to see whether he is someone you need to attack or not, and once he made that push on you, you decided attacking him was the best way to go. I find that more scummy than townish. That's not what I mean by considering that he was town.

But I'd like for you to point out where we never ever considered Bacde town in the whole situation. OH WAIT.

How wasn't our sticking to our guns equal town? How didn't our flailing equal town? You try to claim that he was abrasive and so he was town, but we were aggressive and so we were scum. That's you arguing out the both sides of your mouth in your rhetorical attempt to try to get us lynched.

He was proactively pushing who he believed was scum. You were reactively pushing the one person who looked very town and whose lynch would greatly benefit you as scum.

He ignored extremely important aspects of the information available. Hi! That night was then only night there was a tracker/watcher message out there and not one person claimed it. That means, especially in a bastard game, that the chance for fuckery is high. If that was a town tracker/watcher result they would have outed it because there wouldn't be any reason not to. You might note that there is not one today. GEE I WONDER WHY NOT. That means that was from scum. Bacde not considering any of that was scummy as hell while claiming that he was confirmed town while being jailed when there were kills made.

So he felt like you were talking circles around the guilty on you and using rhetoric to dodge a lynch which he thought was a scumtell. Why is that scummy? In your experience, does every townie thoroughly go through every argument their scumread makes and offer a refutation? Do all players logically analyze all information available to them? Does no one ever get strong gut reads and persue them? You are basically saying he's scum for his playstyle.

And hey, yeah I'm wrong. I have my games. shit Nacho and I completely fucked up a micro recently, but yeah us or me being wrong is a scum tell. Someone as invested as meta as you are should recognize the ebbs and flows.

I don't care about meta I don't have personal experience with unless there's something very specific I want to look into. Why would you think I care? And it is not about being wrong. It is that you are not even trying unless you absolutely have to.

Yeah, I'd ignore that too if I were you. Your case is soo much stronger when you ignore facts. Are you actually arguing that xtoxm is unknowingly a naive watcher while trying to argue an occam's razor argument against us, because really? Does it only apply when convenient for your case or...?

I addressed this already. I find your play the scummiest in this game. We don't have the information we need to make conclusive determinations on what the setup is like. Lynching Bacde for claiming vanilla cop proved this. Our best bet is to use good old-fashioned scumhunting until we are close to endgame.

[Imperium]

Well that happened quickly.

I am not scum. Bad wagon.

I said already why I scumread Oversoul.

My Gork was more on gut.

Prof I changed my mind on.

Flubber, Titus, Saint all townreads for me.

glubber and saint flipped town, I still think oversoul is town (nacho and I are gonna fight here I think). I still read Gork as town.

anyway nothing to read here, because he and titus were opposite sides anyway, so.

I think I'm going to go to sleep. :/