Mini 482: Shrek Mafia - Game Over

[Adam The Amazing]

I love the WIFOM being typed out. It's absolutely correct, which is why it's malarkey. It just comes down to a guessing game... are they using reverse psychology, reverse reverse psychology, etc? Even or odd, is what it boils down to.

I don't think there are other roles that are anti-town besides the mafia because nobody died N1. I think a dr. could have saved one person, or a roleblocker could have blocked a kill, but the odds on both happening are very low. A vig can choose not to kill.

[Mirth]

Grek, could you please rephrase you last post? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Maybe I'm just tired, but I'm not sure I see the difference.

Adam, why start me on the WIFOM trail then? Also I don't get the of your first paragraph. The second, I agree that we probably only have a mafia, but thats as far as my speculation will go. I think that we'll probably get a better picture of how many killing rolls are running around after the next night.

[Grek]

Grek, could you please rephrase you last post? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Maybe I'm just tired, but I'm not sure I see the difference.

I was saying in my previous post that nothing you say

about who you suspect

will effect the mafia's night choice, because of WIFOM. I did not mean that

absolutly

nothing you say will effect who the mafia will attack. What you said about power roles is correct.

[Grek]

EBWOP: that should read "absolutely", not absolutly.

[inHimshallibe]

This is exactly why we don't give much credit to thinking through WIFOM options... >.>

[Mirth]

I have to continue to disagree with you then. The mafia could use a player's opinions of who they say they suspect as a guide, by leaving alive a player who has suspicion on him already. They don't necessarily have to, but they could.

InHim, would you care to make a more substantial post? I know you said that you have nothing to say about players or suspicion or anything, but a longer comment on anything else would be nice.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Dead Rikimaru replaces AKA Apokalypsekid9

[Dead Rikimaru]

Hi, everyone.
I'm here and reading.

[Adam The Amazing]

Hooray!

[Dead Rikimaru]

Among Mirth's 40 posts in this game, the word "Grek" is found 65 times.

Mirth, all you pretty much did during the whole game was discuss Grek's strategies. At this point how likely he is of being scum?

Also, if we were in Kingmaker and you were the Queen who would be on your "Execution List"?

[Mirth]

How likely is he of being scum? Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess there are probably three, four, or five scum in this game. I'm going to go with four, as I think that seems most likely. So going with probability here, I'd say he has a 25% percent chance of being scum, if we're going with likelyhood.

Now I believe the question you're actually asking is whether I think he's scum. At the moment, I wouldn't know what I think. I think he's the player who has given me the most to argue with, and, as much as I really don't want to get back into this discussion, I still think he early actions are suspicious in nature, so my suspicion of him is not alleviated. If I had to say something, I'd say I'm leaning toward him probably being scum, but as to absolute likelihoods, well, I can't give you anything more certain than that until someone dies and I start strining together more WIFOM arguements.

If you're asking if my vote will return to him, well, that depends on how he, yourself (this is because you are replacing Ben), and a few other people decide to act.

Now then, your second question, as I don't know what Kingmaker is, I'm not sure if my answer will be up to your standards. I don't have an "execution list." There are quiet a few players I would love to hear more from (mainly everyone who hasn't posted much). I'm reserving judgement at the moment as I'm not satisfied with the amount of discussion so far. You're right, it has been mostly me and Grek arguing and other people sort of sitting on the sidelines.

Also, I have a few questions for you, since you seem to have read the thread closely enough to count my exact word usage to the point where you can indirectly go "aha! she's suspicious!" without actually saying you think so, and present me with questions asked in a leading manner.

1. what do you think of your predecessor? I'm sure we're all wondering this.
2. this execution list thing. I suppose, since you asked me, it would be only fair to ask you who you think is suspicious thus far and why? (I know that I'm probably at the top of that list, considering that you use your first game post to question me alone, but, humor me a little, please).

That's all, really. I'm going back to sleep now.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I don't know what Kingmaker is

Kingmaker.
Execution list is the list of people the king is considering to get rid of.
In other words, I wanted to know who, besides Grek, you could be suspecting.

I'm reserving judgement at the moment as I'm not satisfied with the amount of discussion so far. You're right, it has been mostly me and Grek arguing and other people sort of sitting on the sidelines.

Exactly.
The first nine pages of this game consisted of discussing Grek's plan and ben's wackyness. Neither case amounted to anything and now people got tired and stopped posting.
Actually, I would really like to knock people "out of the sidelines" and have them commit to an opinion about both situations.

present me with questions asked in a leading manner.

I just asked if you think Grek is scum and who else you suspect. Normal mafia questions. If I'm not accusing you why are you so defensive?

1. what do you think of your predecessor? I'm sure we're all wondering this.

In most games here at Mafia Scum you win with your side even if you die during the game. This is to incentivate players to play well and try their best to catch scum even knowing that if they play too well they will end up targeted by mafia at night.
Some players seem to not think this way, and do their best to survive the more they can. A classic example would be creampuffeater in Himalayan Mafia. He didn't help the town at all, he was happy just to not be the lynch of the day and survive to see another day. Of course the mafia didn't kill him at night and he got to endgame just to lynch Twomz and handle the mafia the win.
I think ben is this kind of player. He was happy to jump on any bandwagon as soon as someone else got killed. And he didn't want to lead anything to not call mafia's attention and get nightkilled.
Also, based on his last post I think he plays mafia online on sites where the things go much faster, making his style more effective.
In other words, I don't think ben cared who got lynched.

He just wanted to survive.

At least that's what I saw last time I hacked into his brain.

2. this execution list thing. I suppose, since you asked me, it would be only fair to ask you who you think is suspicious thus far and why?

In your own words: "I'm reserving judgement at the moment as I'm not satisfied with the amount of discussion so far."
My intention is to have everyone state their opinion about Grek and about ben/me. So we can have something to judge about everyone, and we can see who really had an opinion or was just jumping wagons.

I know that I'm probably at the top of that list,

At the moment the list is almost empty. I need more info so I can insert names above and/or under you.

humor me a little,

In her last post, Mirth avoided mentioning the word Grek even once, in order to decrease her average of Grek's per post.

Everyone:

I would like you all to answer this question:
What's your opinion about Grek and why?

My opinion is that Grek is not scum, or at least his plans are not sign that he is scum, I read him as a new player looking for a "catch" to help him get scum.
Am I wrong? Am I right? State your opinion.

Also, I saw many posts of people "waiting for AKO" to say something. Well now I'm here. Time to say what you have been waiting to say.

[Mirth]

I just asked if you think Grek is scum and who else you suspect. Normal mafia questions. If I'm not accusing you why are you so defensive?

Because I've yet to see someone go through posts and actually count the number of times one player mentions another player's name. (Though I am new on this site, I have read through a pile of completed games to get the gist of what is supposed to be going on.) This, obviously, bothers me. Ergo I am defensive. Also suspicious.

1. what do you think of your predecessor? I'm sure we're all wondering this.

In most games here at Mafia Scum you win with your side even if you die during the game. This is to incentivate players to play well and try their best to catch scum even knowing that if they play too well they will end up targeted by mafia at night.
Some players seem to not think this way, and do their best to survive the more they can. A classic example would be creampuffeater in Himalayan Mafia. He didn't help the town at all, he was happy just to not be the lynch of the day and survive to see another day. Of course the mafia didn't kill him at night and he got to endgame just to lynch Twomz and handle the mafia the win.
I think ben is this kind of player. He was happy to jump on any bandwagon as soon as someone else got killed. And he didn't want to lead anything to not call mafia's attention and get nightkilled.
Also, based on his last post I think he plays mafia online on sites where the things go much faster, making his style more effective.
In other words, I don't think ben cared who got lynched.

He just wanted to survive.

At least that's what I saw last time I hacked into his brain.

Nice bit of analysis there, but you seem to have missed something. Ben put a vote on me. I did not have any votes prior to him. He gave, as his reason, a copy and paste of Grek's post arguing with my argument against Grek's theory and didn't explain that vote when asked about it. Now, I might be wrong, but one vote does not constitute a bandwagon. This was also before people started questioning me about arguing with Grek. Therefore I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I wasn't in any danger of being lynched right at that moment and certainly didn't have a bandwagon on me.

Following through with your bit of logic, then, if Ben really wanted a lynch that wasn't himself for the sake of having a lynch that wasn't himself, wouldn't he have voted someone with votes on them already? Like, for instance, Grek or Nox or Jex? Yet he didn't go along with the peanut gallery. Nor did he actually provide a reason for voting me. The problem with Ben was not in his vote, but rather in his lack of explanation for the vote.

So then, since your opinion references a situation that did not occur, could I ask you to please comment on Ben in this context?

In her last post, Mirth avoided mentioning the word Grek even once, in order to decrease her average of Grek's per post.

Actually, I mentioned Grek's name once in that post. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on it, since you're so keen on counting the number of times I use his name. As to avoiding, I wasn't. Though, I think you'd have to agree here, it hardly matters how many times I used his name, since it's kind of obvious who I was refering to anyway.

[Adam The Amazing]

I feel that Grek could have had a poorly laid plan. IMO, it was so likely to fail that I doubt it ever had a chance of working, and I think Grek thought the same thing. I believe Mirth had the right of it in that debate, that the threat of quick-lynching was not worth it; the pros did not outweigh the cons, just because the likelihood of there being scum that are so oblivious that they'll hammer whenever they get the chance is slim to none on a good day.

With that said: the fact that I took Mirth's side in that argument does not mean I necessarily think Grek is scum OR that Mirth isn't. It simply means I believe that she had logic and truth on her side. If a wise man argues the losing side of an argument with a buffoon, then the buffoon is still right; he might lose the argument because he isn't as eloquent, but this is going into the philosophy of whether or not there's a universal, objective truth. I say yes. Also, Grek, I am not comparing you to a buffoon, it's just a metaphor. I think you're far from it.

From your couple of posts, doctor (since DR is such a convenient name shortening), I'm not reading scum. Naturally, you can slip into whatever niche you want with replacing into the game, not having to follow your predecessor's footsteps... I'm very happy you're taking a different approach. I think it could just be a more impatient playing style that comes from quicker games, but I've got all the time in the world, and you post like you think the same way (and no, this isn't me trying to buddy up).

Unvote

. I don't know if I was voting anyone, but ATM I don't feel like anybody is playing in a manner that'll get them lynched quickly, and I don't need to use pressure votes until I see where I want to put pressure.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Gah. My post got eaten.

Anyhoo, I think I've made it clear where I stand on the Grek/Mirth show: Grek may be misguided, but is ultimately town.

I think I'm currently voting for you.

Unvote.

I'm not going to hang you for the actions of your predecessor. However, I'm not giving you a free pass, either. ben was scummy, so I'm going to be watching you to see if it was the player or the role that was in the wrong.

For now, I will

vote: Mirth

.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Vote Count

Dead Rikimaru (3): Nox, DeliciousGoldfish, camisade

Grek (2): Pug89, InHimshallibe
InHimshallibe (2): Dead Rikimaru , Grek
Mirth (1): Haschel Cedricson

Not Voting (4): Zindaras, Mirth, Jex, Adam The Amazing

7 to lynch

[Mirth]

Hmm...something I've notived.

Zindaras, you've been totally silent recently, yet I've noticed that you've been posting in other threads. Yes, I know this is metagaming, and it's not something I'm generally a fan of, but I'd really like to hear from you. Would you care to comment on anything at all?

[Grek]

I obviously think Grek is protown because I am Grek.

I think what you said about ben being in just to survive makes some sense, but mirth's point still stands. You yourself have done nothing scummy or protown: both mafia and town would act the same in your position.

[Jex]

As for Grek, I don't really know what I think of him. His actions wreak of scummyness, but I can see the other side of the argument too (him playing like a newbie or just excited that he had a plan, flawed as it might be.)

For the whole Dr/Apo/Ben wagon, I never really thought ben was scum so I don't really find Dr scummy now. Dr has had some very nice posts that ultimately seem protown, for now. As for his predecessor, Ben acted that way in other games as well which is why I didnt' necessarily find his actions scummy right off the bat.

My scum list now? I don't know. Right now Mirth seems to have some eloquent posts, but I feel he's fighting too hard. Grek still isn't cleared off my list either. I'm hoping to hear how some others (especially the lurkers) give their opinions in hopes of getting some insight. As of now, I'm kiind of confused and don't know what to think yet.

[Dead Rikimaru]

MOD

- Would it be possible to prod all players who haven't posted since Aug, 28th? Tell them I'm here, waiting for them.

[Mirth]

DR, could you please answer my question?

[Zindaras]

Mirth: I've been busy. With stuff. There are some games which I've let down. This is one of them. I intend to make up for it pretty soon.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

First deadline: 7th of september, 20.00 GMT+1. Prods are going out as well.

[Pug89]

I would like you all to answer this question:
What's your opinion about Grek and why?

I think Grek is scum, which is why I'm still voting for him. His plan at the begining of the game was extremely unlikely to work and when asked about it his reasoning seemed like something he made up to cover his tracks.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Mexal replaces camisade.