NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: TheWorst

You just read sala's and vedith's post on this, right? I don't LIE about this unless both of us are scum. So unless you're damn sure that both of us are scum, you're going the wrong way.

[Luna Fox]

Agh im not even sure anymore, everyone keeps making convincing arguments :<

[Titus]

Titus's Closing Arguments

The Case of Town versus VeeGee

As I have mentioned before, the wiki said that friendly neighbor messages must match exactly. If the wiki says it, then it's well within the rules to hunt based on that, even though I normally agree that hunting based on mod communication is normally iffy.

In this case, we have to friendly neighbor claims, all have claimed full shot or at least not said x shot. So their messages should look the same and be able to send every night. So I would rather not lynch them...yet and the evidence is not as damning.

VeeGee at first says the role is not included. Skybird defends him saying that he doesn't know why Vegee messed it up. Skybird looks like he's coaching Veegee. If this is right, we can infer scum don't have daychat.

Given Skybird was outed FN (why they didn't revoke that claim upon sub in beats the fuck out of me), they would have to send a message to someone. Roleblocked claim would be too suspicious at the moment. They couldn't claim the dead guy because no one died. Skybird could have asked for the person to keep secret but I wouldn't allow that and someone (either real or fake) would have to step forward.

The real FN messages would not change either. Earlier in his ISO Vegee strongly suggests that the phrase "friendly neighbor" is not in the message. When faced with the wiki, he says "Town Friendly Neighbor" is added to his PM, making the mod communication awkward and redundant. Don't think so. "Town Friendly Neighbor is Town is redundant. The message would be either "X is a Town Friendly Neighbor" or "X, Friendly Neighbor, is town".

VeeGee looks like he's trying to guess the right answer OR trying to frame Skybird for having a different message. While Skybird and Vegee are likely buddies without chat, Vegee I have even less doubt on being scum.

In the ultra rare event I am wrong and Veegee is town, Skybird is conftown.

[Titus]

VOTE: TheWorst

You just read sala's and vedith's post on this, right? I don't LIE about this unless both of us are scum. So unless you're damn sure that both of us are scum, you're going the wrong way.

There is plenty of time to lynch you after Veegee flips scum.

[Salamence20]

Agh im not even sure anymore, everyone keeps making convincing arguments :<

Listen to me very carefully because Im only spelling this out for you because Im nice like that.

I dont give a fuck about the BP doc. He needs to go before lylo because wifom. Not today.

We have 2 FN claims that will end up either dead, or lynched because if they arent mafia, then they will either force a lynch on them today/tomorrow or night kill them. Mafia cant afford to leave them alive.

If mafia is fakeclaiming FN, its going to be obvious in the coming days because hes going to run out of people to "target" and lie for him.

This debate settles itself later on, we should take this opportunity to remove someone else, say Vedith or FA

[Titus]

Agh im not even sure anymore, everyone keeps making convincing arguments :<

Listen to me very carefully because Im only spelling this out for you because Im nice like that.

I dont give a fuck about the BP doc. He needs to go before lylo because wifom. Not today.

We have 2 FN claims that will end up either dead, or lynched because if they arent mafia, then they will either force a lynch on them today/tomorrow or night kill them. Mafia cant afford to leave them alive.

If mafia is fakeclaiming FN, its going to be obvious in the coming days because hes going to run out of people to "target" and lie for him.

This debate settles itself later on, we should take this opportunity to remove someone else, say Vedith or FA

I was role blocked.
Targeted the dead guy.
Suddenly three shot.

Won the game.

You don't ignore scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Tell me what you think of my post on CDB then. In my opinion, lynching either FN is a terrible idea because they can keep sending that message. More importantly, Skybird sending it to veegee is great because it makes Skybird confirmed town if veegee dies (and veegee is already a pretty universal town read), theWorst confirmed town if I die. Lynching them is not the right option. By your own method:

If we take you, the two FN's, titus, myself (again, will sort itself out), and Sala (who replaced banana, also one of your town leans), veegee, who are you left with for today? CDB, Performer, FA_Q2, Vedith, IAI (who probably needs a prod, but I think is reasonable for town as well).

Even IF you want to include me in that, do so tomorrow. There's no reason to lynch doctors especially on a nk night. If nothing else and I was lying, you're not falling behind by letting me go because the no nk already sets scum back basically a full day.

Pedit: Titus, why go after veegee or Skybird? Again, skybird can claim to someone else. Veegee not being 100% clear isn't really a tell. It's the exact same reasoning with worst and I.

[Salamence20]

Titus, you seem to be leaving out the possibility of having both of those as town and wasting lynches to kill them.

Let mafia deal with it.

We have plenty of time to do it another day

[Luna Fox]

and veegee is already a pretty universal town read

Since when?

[Titus]

@AJ because they are scum for the reasons I outlined. Hell I am half way tempted to believe all four of you are scum but that makes it hard for Sala to fit in too.

@Salmance/AJ, I am not voting the actual FN but the recipients.

[Luna Fox]

I find it odd that you've been talking about me being an universal townread yet none of the FNs decided to send their FN message to me, but it's perfectly fine with a lurker like Veegee

[Titus]

*actual FN claimer

[Luna Fox]

Actually i'll sheep titus
VOTE: VeeGee
It's true that VG is more likely to flip scum.

[Titus]

I find it odd that you've been talking about me being an universal townread yet none of the FNs decided to send their FN message to me, but it's perfectly fine with a lurker like Veegee

Paranoia theory: AJ, Skybird, Worst, and VeeGee are all scum.

[Luna Fox]

Things bothering me about AJ:

>Attacks me because of my townhunting
>Suddenly agrees with my PoE
>Says he protected me and blocked the kill
>Says im a secret innocent child

Is this like super buddying or something? @_@

[Aj The Epic]

yes

[Titus]

Things bothering me about AJ:

>Attacks me because of my townhunting
>Suddenly agrees with my PoE
>Says he protected me and blocked the kill
>Says im a secret innocent child

Is this like super buddying or something? @_@

AJ is weird. Putting that aside, his reaction to me pushing him as lying town makes no sense as either alignment. As scum, he should be just ignoring that or giving it a token, it's possible then NKing me tonight. Then later he could make up what I saw (as it would be anti-town) for me to explain how he was lying. As lying town, he wouldn't want me to expose details (which weakens my theory a fair amount) and as honest town he would welcome the wifom to heal more people.

No matter what he was doing his reaction to me was subpar.

[Aj The Epic]

Luna, you had a townread on veegee since 600 and carried that to the end of yesterday.

However, oddly enough I can't find more people that agree with that. Tallah is null, TheWorst wanted him hung, Vedith... we won't even start. Skybird thinks he's innocent by means of sending FN to him. And also, no one questioned it when he posted that (we said to avoid Luna/Catboi/myself and send it to the next tier). Sala doesn't have an explicit opinions so far as I can tell, and zakk's mention stated veegee as town.

[ChannelDelibird]

UNVOTE: Aj the Epic I can barely believe that I'm doing this, but...

Aj, you are so pleased with yourself that it's ridiculous. It's like you want to undermine yourself. Your whole game has been so much 'ego, ego, I'm so good, the fact that you're not all on your knees in front of my reads is literally throwing the game because that's how magnificent I am'. You're so damn proud about how good you think you are that it makes me want to tear my hear out. I'm sorry to be directly critical but my breaking point here is the end of 1649, where you go 'and just for good measure, I have deduced that CDB is an economics major' because dammit you

just can't help yourself it's going to be so satisfying when CDB gasps and says 'you're right, Aj, how did you figure it out

(I left uni with a 2.1 in Translation, Media and Spanish, for the record, and have never taken an economics class in my life).

So this comes as the grand finale to a post where you proudly declared that, ooh, I expressed some concern about talah even though talah is "someone I explicitly stated should almost be confirmed town" - guess what, man, NOBODY CARES about your grand proclamations. They don't matter. Your belief in a read doesn't make someone confirmed. People get confirmed by flips and roles, not by your intuition, and throwing around the term is just obnoxiously arrogant.

And this

even while basically ignoring the fact that I ultimately put talah as a townread, and one of my stronger ones

.

Your boneheaded refusal to engage with the actual point of my Performer read - the way in which it considers, at a pretty simple and basic level, how people do and don't behave when they get scum role PMs - in favour of 'I'm getting from this that CDB thinks he spotted a claim somewhere' just makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Even more so when you actually want to argue that we're scum

together

because the logical continuation of that train of thought would be scumCDB picking up on what he thinks is a softclaim and trying to buddy with Performer, not that we're scum together. But no. What you should be getting from that is THE ACTUAL WORDS THAT I WROTE, JESUS CHRIST, because inexperienced scum do not come into large games and adopt huge, deliberate, painfully unsubtle mannerisms like that. It's not like that's the only post in which I explained my thinking on Performer, either, but you're going to focus in on that one because taking a fuller picture of my play wouldn't fit your pigeonhole for me, which you've already decided that I fit into because you can't possibly imagine a world in which someone thinks that your claim is unacceptably full of shit.

But, yes, I'm unvoting you. The line about economics majors, while so smug that it makes me want to punch things, is much more likely to come from someone who knows that their claim will hold up than someone who knows that they've been rumbled. Hey, look, here's me considering how people behave when they have scum or town PMs, as I have been doing all game. WHAT A FUCKING SURPRISE I GUESS I DIDN'T READ MY OWN POSTS BEFORE.

I'll come back to this game later and decide what I want to do with my vote with a calmer head but, for the time being, Aj, sincerely, please consider for a moment that you might not be God's gift to humanity.

[ChannelDelibird]

*tear my hair out

[Luna Fox]

Luna, you had a townread on veegee since 600 and carried that to the end of yesterday.

I did.
That doesn't make him "universal town read"
That makes him "townread by Luna"

[Titus]

@CDB, Why can't AJ be smarmy scum emulating a town meta?

[ChannelDelibird]

@CDB, Why can't AJ be smarmy scum emulating a town meta?

Reminds me too much of UT in Team Mafia (in all the ways that aren't an insult to UT)

[Salamence20]

Aaaaaaand I hate this game

[Luna Fox]

Aaaaaaand I hate this game

*hug*