Newbie 1656 : Game Over

[MoosyDoosy]

Amished tell?

Actually, maybe not.
Still kinda awkward you point a read on your predecessor like that.

oh I see what you mean. :/ I replaced for coolkyle. I guess he didn't read the thread properly because he didn't have much time.

[Ether]

Heh.

I wasn't laying a trap, for what it's worth. I did want a reaction, but I'm not really sure what you're getting at there!

I think you (and lordj) are probably town, by the way. I don't really get your read on Mightymandarin. (I think he's likely to be replaced, though. He hasn't even logged into the site in the past 24 hours, let alone posted, and this is while the game's still young.)

[OceanWind]

While I had scumreads on Ether and SilverWolf and I thought the way they talked to each other looked pre-planned, I exaggerated the strength of my reads to force people to take positions. This game needed someone to push a strong case for it to come to life. So far, the players were just mulling about doing nothing.

Ether's reaction looked town. She enquired about my thoughts further and tried to read me. SilverWolf's looked like caught mafia. She started off by saying that it is reasonable for me to scumread her and then followed up with a weak return vote on me.

UNVOTE: Ether
VOTE: SilverWolf

Sakura Hana looked town as well although I don't understand why she's reading me through the lens of a newbie when I clearly stated I've played a lot of mafia on other forums. I read GM as slightly scummy for not reacting to the meat of my cases and choosing only to argue a peripheral line about my RQS, nor taking a stance on me despite me making a lot of waves. Lordj's vote on Ether right after I voted without acknowledging my case also looks slightly scummy.

So what do you hope to learn from these RQS questions and how do they move the game forward and what do they tell you about anyone's alignment?

Why start with RQS?

What do you expect to gain from your RQS questions, specially when the game had already moved away from RVS? <- Question to Ocean.

I don't learn anything just from the responses but they give me a baseline through which I can interpret future actions. If someone that prefers playing town are dragging their feet and being minimally active (like SilverWolf), there's a good chance they are mafia.

Considering I voted for GM and was questioning her on her tone and different playstyle from the IC game I remembered with her, I would not call that maneuvering without attacking her.

By "maneuvering" I mean that you are trying to work yourself into a certain position without actually developing a read. You tell GoodMorning that she is playing more pro-town than a past game where she was a town IC to stroke her ego. Then you say that it bothers you because it is different but also say that you like her activity and enthusiam. That looks like mafia trying to position themselves into going either way depending on her response. If she attacks you, you can come back to the "GoodMorning is different therefore mafia" theme and if she buddies you like she did, you can back off. But ultimately you did nothing with your read on GoodMorning. Your play there has been a lot of positioning and no scumhunting.

I backed off because I remembered that comment that was made in the large normal I was in and Ether's comments helped me remember that. I realized lordj's comment could of come from town so I unvoted.

If you thought Lordj's comment could come from town, why would you say it could never come from town? That looks like you are hastily covering up a slip rather than an honest mistake.

I will admit I'm having trouble getting into the game and I'm not sure what my problem is, as I usually don't have this issue and I'm not sure if I'm experiencing apathy or what. If you want to call that scummy, I wouldn't blame you. I'll have to see what I can do to fix this as I was looking forward to this game so meh................don't know.

Note the contradiction between you saying you're not going to "blame me" and proceeding to scumread me anyways in your later post. Here you think it is understandable to scumread you but later you vote me mostly for scumreading you - it has to be that because you said my points on Ether had merit.

It looks like Ether is directing SilverWolf away from bad pushes.

Why wouldn't they just do that in their Mafia thread? And why the associatives before flips?

I thought the mafia were only allowed to talk during the night but I looked at the first post again and it seems you are right. I retract that aspect of my suspicion.

i think with someone at l-1,l-2 they will feel extremely pressured and would act alot different trying to save themselves then they normally would.

When someone is feeling pressured, they may do more alignment-revealing things than they normally would. Why do you disagree?

after rereading and looking more or less just at lohas posts i feel like the case on her is basically jsut off previous off site mafia games that they may or may not have played together cant really say its a good case so im going to VOTE: ether because i feel she is just wanting to lynch someone anyone, stated the case on Loha it stuck with a couple of players if it didnt stick she woulda jsut made a case up on someone else

I made a case against Ether and voted her. Why didn't you say anything about it or whether or not you agreed with it. I'd expect town to mention something either agreeing with me because I posted a case on your suspect or saying Ether was mafia but not for the reasons I stated. Your vote fit in with you being mafia and voting a burgeoning wagon on Ether without acknowledging how the wagon formed.

I can elaborate on why I think coolkyledude's town if it's important and other people are bothered by this. But I kind of want him to post more instead of answering.

Yeah, do this. Now that he replaced out, you are not really throwing away a chance to develop your read further by revealing what you know.

Those three blatantly

perceive

themselves as newbies, and it shows. (Well, maybe lordj doesn't. But I do.) LoHa described himself as a veteran and his second post was dripping with mafia jargon. So yes, I'm holding him to a higher standard than those three. (He's also not actually admitting that he doesn't have reads, unlike Mandarin and lordj; he's just failing to have them, beyond sorta-kinda OMGUSing me and occasionally bringing up Sakura's vote from Page 1.) It's hard for me to believe that you don't see a difference. <snip> What do you think of him on his own merits?

LoHa doesn't strike me as any more experienced than any of the other non-SE players. The types of arguments he used like asking Sakura if she wanted to be sheeped, and telling you that you are misrepresenting him is fairly typical of players with not a lot of experience. I don't have an alignment read on him. I assumed he was town when I was reading you as mafia but I'm not sure at this point.

A lot of your accusations toward me are for attacking LoHa for things while ignoring or townreading other newbies for similar things. So why me/SilverWolf? If I were scum with another SE, why would I be bothering with this supposed double standard?

If you and SilverWolf were both mafia, you can't lynch just based on your two votes. You need some newbies on your side. It looked to me at that point like you were selectively scumreading some people and not others so you can buddy who you want and push who you want rather than question everything equally and take an unbiased approach.

I think I Townish read Ether now.

I agree but why? I want to hear your reasoning.

Just finished page 8. Skimmed page 9 and I'll analyze it in a bit.

[MoosyDoosy]

hm? I guess I'll have to look back at OceanWind and SilverWolf interaction. I'm glad you realized why your Ether read was terrible. Tentative town lean because you're having the same thoughts as me on lordj210 which is always a good thing. Just would like to hear what alignment you think that makes him.

[Sakura Hana]

when I clearly stated I've played a lot of mafia on other forums.

Uh, you didn't?

Nevermind, i just re-read your post and saw that you actually did, i only remembered the part where you said "i was reading a few games here" which doesn't exactly indicate being experienced.

[MoosyDoosy]

@OceanWind

Yeh, I’m not up for a SilverWolf lynch today. I think you might be getting tunneled and you’re reaching a bit. Not to mention SilverWolf was actually fairly active and not being minimal at all so I don’t really see where you’re coming from.

So I’ll ask again. What do you think of lordj210? And for another question. What do you think of LoHa?

[SilverWolf]

Oh FFS, I'm not quote stripping that whole thing.

-I did not maneuver around GM-I voted her and gave my reasoning and even pushed her for it so nope, that point is not valid and is weak as hell as well. It relies on a bunch of assumptions which is pretty much what you've been doing since you entered the game. Making assumptions, bad cases, and reachy reads. Also, I very clearly developed a read on GM and laid it out so you are lying by saying I did not. Town has no reason to lie.

-Yeah, I said I'm apathetic this game. It has nothing to do with my alignment but with me. My vote on you was AFTER I re-read the thread to start analyzing this game again. They are two different things which is painfully clear if you are actually reading me with an open mind instead of with the mind of someone who wants to fabricate a scumread on me.

-Also, saying I'm dragging my feet and minimally active is completely false and is a massive misrep. Especially considering how much I've posted recently. So you are stretching the truth yet again.

[goodmorning]

mafBlack is sooooo much easier on the eyes than mafSilver OMG I can't believe I didn't notice this before!!

I will never go back.

Also, welcome Moosydoosy!!

I know, right? I was so resistant to the change but now I quite like it.

I am just going to stop by and say that it's hilarious you all could not understand goodmorning's posts. It's a good chance to get reads.

oh my god

are you for real?




is this love?

@Moosy221: You are kyle though?

also omg this is definitely love


@Sakura: But Amished isn't a very good tell anyway.

I read GM as slightly scummy for not reacting to the meat of my cases and choosing only to argue a peripheral line about my RQS, nor taking a stance on me despite me making a lot of waves.

The meat of your cases didn't really have anything to do with me, and your singular post didn't really ping me one way or the other. Weird how that happens.

Why start with RQS?

I don't learn anything just from the responses but they give me a baseline through which I can interpret future actions. If someone that prefers playing town are dragging their feet and being minimally active (like SilverWolf), there's a good chance they are mafia.

Maybe. But on the other hand, I hate being Mafia, and Silver's pointed out that I had the highest postcount in each of my last 2 NewbieScumgames.
So, probably, effort isn't indicative of alignment.

It looks like Ether is directing SilverWolf away from bad pushes.

Why wouldn't they just do that in their Mafia thread? And why the associatives before flips?

I thought the mafia were only allowed to talk during the night but I looked at the first post again and it seems you are right. I retract that aspect of my suspicion.

Hm. Why the associatives before flips?
@Silver, Ether, Sakura: Real or fake?

I think I Townish read Ether now.

I agree but why? I want to hear your reasoning.

For 190, mostly.
It's not like a strong thing or anything, if that's what you're asking.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't learn anything just from the responses but they give me a baseline through which I can interpret future actions. If someone that prefers playing town are dragging their feet and being minimally active (like SilverWolf), there's a good chance they are mafia.

Ok this makes sense, while in practice it isn't that easy, it's the reason most ppl do ask these questions, so i think you're town.

[SilverWolf]

I keep messing up quotes so the hell with it, LOL.

GM-I've seen that kind of thing faked by scum so often that I usually disregard it as any sort of tell one way or the other.

Sakura-you seem to be giving out townreads way too easy. It makes me kind of uncomfortable but I'm not sure scum would put themselves in a box like that either so meh.

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, not a fan of OceanWind's OMGUSy way of handling my vote on him and his lies and misrep in regards to what I'm doing this game and reachy reads. I think it's a bad reaction to my vote so my vote stays.

[SilverWolf]

Mightymandarin

- town lean primarily because he's a newbie, but be wary. I don't like how he came into the thread trumpeting that he was a newbie and I'd like to see whether he keeps pulling the newbie card or not.

Why is being a newbie mean he's a townread?

[LoHa]

GM is scum. This is me trying to get more votes on her.

@Moosy I suppose I could've offered more constructive content than I have been doing, for the sake of being more approachable but that question, wrugh! Find it in your heart to ask me something else please.

[goodmorning]

You may want to back that up with reasons and logic, or else it's no different than those dudes on the History Channel asserting that aliens built all the ancient pyramids and shit - nobody will pay attention.

What's your issue with Moosy's question?

[SilverWolf]

GM is scum.

Tell me more.

[MoosyDoosy]

I think I'll be happy with this vote.

Vote: LoHa

[lordj210]

In post 188, lordj210 wrote:
i think with someone at l-1,l-2 they will feel extremely pressured and would act alot different trying to save themselves then they normally would.

When someone is feeling pressured, they may do more alignment-revealing things than they normally would. Why do you disagree?

i dont disagree i more or lesss sad the same exact thing just in differant words.

In post 188, lordj210 wrote:
after rereading and looking more or less just at lohas posts i feel like the case on her is basically jsut off previous off site mafia games that they may or may not have played together cant really say its a good case so im going to VOTE: ether because i feel she is just wanting to lynch someone anyone, stated the case on Loha it stuck with a couple of players if it didnt stick she woulda jsut made a case up on someone else

I made a case against Ether and voted her. Why didn't you say anything about it or whether or not you agreed with it. I'd expect town to mention something either agreeing with me because I posted a case on your suspect or saying Ether was mafia but not for the reasons I stated. Your vote fit in with you being mafia and voting a burgeoning wagon on Ether without acknowledging how the wagon formed.

again as i said i looked more or less only at LoHas posts to see if i could find anything in her posts that made her look skummy i found nothing however tomarrow on my day off i will go through reread the entire thread and see what i come up with(thus why i didnt mention your case on Ether) aas i didnt even look at it i was only looking for ether posts

[lordj210]

@Moosy
lordj210 - Awkward posts. Not to mention he literally contributed no reads to the thread except for one wishy-washy post. Seems to spend a lot of time discussing voting mechanics and nothing much else.

i have spent time discussing voting mechanics as i am kept being asked why i think l-2 is bad and ive explained it had i not been continually asked it woulda been dropped after the 1st time i explained it. as far as not providing reads im still decently new and not got the new and updated skumdar that the experienced players seem to have. tomarrow on my day off ill read through and post what i think i realize ive said this a few times however only 1 car me and my work work same place so after i get out of work i sit and wait for her and not much to do when we get home before going to bed and doing the same the next day. my days off will be my more active post days

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.06

LoHa - 3 - goodmorning, Sakura Hana, MoosyDoosy
Ether - 1 - lordj210
goodmorning - 1 - LoHa
OceanWind - 1 - SilverWolf
SilverWolf - 1 - OceanWind

Not Voting: Mightymandarin, Ether

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-10-22 07:40:38)

[SilverWolf]

lordj-do you know how to quote things or post link?

In the upper right hand corner you can hit the quote button to quote someone. It makes it a lot easier to figure out what you are talking about.

Looks like this:

Code: Select all

[quote]whatever you want to quote[/quote]

Also, to link a post you want to reference do this:

Code: Select all

[post]242[/post]

And that will look like this: 242 and will link you to post 242.

[lordj210]

yah the way those ended up it looks odd thats my badi shoulda clicked the qute button on each one instead of doing the copy pste thats my bad

[Sakura Hana]

Don't have much time for this game right now, but i figured i'd point out that you can highlight text from a post and press Quote to quote just that specific text. This reduces a lot in terms of editing quotes and messing up quote tags or not having to quote the whole thing to respond to a specific part of it.

I'll be back with some actual content tomorrow.

[Nobody Special]

That highlight-quote thing does

not

work on the scuMobile skin. Just to mention.

[Ether]

I've found myself nodding along to a ton of what SilverWolf has said on this page, eeexcept my first impressions of OceanWind are townish now. You did kind of OMGUS him first.

(I don't get why his explanation of why he RQSed is enough to get a town read from Sakura Hana. Like, I'm not actually anti-RQS in any way, I totally agree that knowing people's alignment preferences can be helpful. But it's just a piece of theory. Anyone who ever uses RQS will tell you the exact same thing.)

OceanWind, could you try to condense your posts a bit more? I don't mind a wall of pure text every now and then, but that quote-reply-quote-reply style is really hard for me to focus on. Shorter more frequent posts would be even better.

I think a lot of your case on SilverWolf kind of assumes she has to be scum and therefore everything she does has to be scummy. Like, her paranoia toward goodmorning acting differently (but more pro-town before meta considerations) doesn't have to be ego-stroking. I get where she was coming from and I think she's town (and that was one of the first things that led me to that conclusion, actually), but if she were scum it could still just be noise. That's also how I feel about the idea that I'd townread some newbies and attack other newbies for comparable behaviors as scum with SilverWolf.

I think MoosyDoosy also said this.

(Relatedly I don't see "not answering questions" as part of the case on LoHa as far as I'm concerned, but I continue to think he's scum anyway. Hmm hmm.)

Yeah, do this. Now that he replaced out, you are not really throwing away a chance to develop your read further by revealing what you know.

Kyle didn't do a ton, but what he did do had a paranoia to it that I'd expect more from newbie town. Both paranoia toward an IC, and paranoia about someone being friendly toward him...I'd expect newbie scum to start with easier targets, and I'd expect town (newbie or not) to have worse reactions to potential buddying, where scum just see an ally.

[SilverWolf]

I think a lot of your case on SilverWolf kind of assumes she has to be scum and therefore everything she does has to be scummy.

This is exactly why I don't like OceanWind. He isn't approaching this as trying to figure out my alignment. He has already decided I'm scum with reasons that look fabricated, forced, and dishonest as well.

I agree with you that Sakura townreading someone of RQS is weird but not sure what to make of it yet.