Mini 1717 Alfred Hitchcock UPick [GAME OVER]

[Hecatia Lapislazuli]

No paranoia whatsoever on both games and i haven't rolled scum against Nacho since either of those.

Addenum: we were both town on both of those last games

~Sakura

[Concrete Angels]

i'd rather not lynch nacho today.

[Nachomamma8]

There is a lot I want to respond to and I will respond to it all eventually. However, at this very moment I am phoneposting and on my way to work so what I respond to and do in this burst of posting will be limited.

It'll likely take me a couple of days to properly catch up; want to try to catchup in a more pro town way than my usual "read nothing, start doing things later".

Just decided to look at Nacho's ISO and ahahahahaha

You don't think that my catchup has been protown? Why is that?

[Nachomamma8]

Regardless, I'm not going to restrict my lynch choices to just the three you have listed. If you want to truly collaborate on your reads, you'll respond to my questions and flesh them out. I like your entrance and I liked your depth of posting but I'm not the kind of player who's going to let someone else arbitrarily choose three people and lynch only out of those three. If you want my support, flesh out all of your reads

I have every intention of fully fleshing out my reads as I form them and when I have the time to type them up; it usually takes me a little while to both develop my reads and get them in thread. I should have a good deal of that process done after work today.

My intention with the three name list was to find a place to push now, not restrict other people's places to vote.

[Nachomamma8]

Ank was town - so...that is assuredly something he does at least do a fair amount as town. So...Ockham.

I agree that town are more likely to scumread people attacking them than not, but this doesn't mean that town can't townread people attacking them. It seems like most people in this thread are townreading Vedith based on his attack on Ank which suggests that the attack is town-looking; I don't think Ank would be blind to that just because he was the one getting attacked.

Explaining why I think Ank is town (if I think Ank is town) is probably going to be a subject of my after work posting; in my read through, I remember liking him based mostly on tone.

[Nachomamma8]

Here he's also using the fact that i've snowed him to show paranoia on my slot, when in recent games he's never had paranoia on my slot when he's town (Point: I haven't rolled scum against nacho in a while, so if he had this sort of paranoia, he would have shown it in games where we were both town like Saki or corpse party, heck he didnt even try to read wisdom and tried to read ME on corpse party where I hydra'd with Wisdom).

I'm using the fact that you can fool me as scum to explain why I'm not satisfied with a townread on your slot just because I'm OK with your posting. I'm not pretending that I can't read you competently; I can. I don't think the posting you've made before the attack on me is posting you couldn't fake as scum or would have trouble faking; you did not have many well-defined pushes, and, as LC pointed out, have been in defensive mode for much of the game. However, I'm also comfortable in my ability to develop a read on notscience and thought that his contributions to the game were pretty lacklustre, hence me pushing him and not you.

In Corpse Mafia, I was less proactive about forming reads in general because that was around the time in my life where I was lurking out a majority of my games; the reason I ended up townreading you, if I remember correctly, was because of your attack on me: I thought your observations were completely on point with the information you had available, hence me telling you I completely understood why you were mislynching my slot.

In Saki Mafia, the reason I was townreading for your slot was - get this - because you were attacking the shit out of my slot early in a way I thought you were unlikely to fake as scum, and also had good looking pushes on Varsoon and later Wisdom.

The takeaway from this is the way that I feel most confident reading you is centered around how you push people and how you treat people you are intimidated by as scum; your pushes in this game have been scattershot at best and, while I felt the whole of your play was townish, I wasn't confident making a strong town call based on your play alone.

Notscience's play, however, was defending you from flawed attacks which is something I feel most people are competent at as either alignment. The rest of his play were scattered and shallow observations on a lot of players; one of his strong points as town and strong town signals is his depth of thought on certain players (paranoia) and I saw no signs of it here; still don't. You're right that the only reason I stopped pushing your slot at first was because of your claim but I don't think it was an unreasonable position to take based on notscience's play.

This was also a post written between distractions, so if anything is unclear, let me know.

[Nachomamma8]

Spent some time with Cataphant's ISO and still see them as a great vote.

My biggest problem with them is simply how weak and garbage all of their pushes were. Their push on Sakura for "weirdly aggressively questioning" was nonsense at best, their vote on Vedith for posting elsewhere was sheeping CA and Thor's quick push there and the push on pistachio (initially for "overjustification in calling out a sqwack and later because "no one was discussing her") felt similarly weak. Progression between these pushes is also practically non-existent; I don't really see any evidence of either head forming reads and that troubles me.

As a smaller point, hiplop's response to pressure (if we're not an obvious counterwagon I don't know what is) is weird and not what I'm used to seeing from hiplop under pressure in the past, but will have to substantiate that later.

[Hecatia Lapislazuli]

Who in this playerlist would you anticipate me being paranoid of Nacho?

And it's not the same with pie regarding ETL- I think she would be funneling it into the scum PT rather than in-thread.

[pistachi0n]

Why is 308 a good post?

Because he's putting on pressure and trying to clarify something for more information.

Can you go into detail more about your scum read on Farside, over the not scum read of Buldge?

The not scumread of Bulge is because he only had like 2 or 3 posts, that was before he was replaced.

For the first part of the game, farside was underwhelming. Like 167 was mostly agreeing with others, 168 is what I mean by underwhelming, I didn't like 198, I hate "I've said too much already" kind of stuff.

Why is your vote still on Dav? Do you think that he is lying then?

He avoided taking a stance on anything in his early play, yes, I think he's lying about being The Birds.

You had a very null read overall on Ank. Would you be up for lynching him today or no?

I don't really want to, I'd lynch anybody to avoid a no lynch though.

[pistachi0n]

My pistachios stance is pretty much a too b atshit to be scum stance

Wait, what? Why am I batshit?

[pistachi0n]

I'm scumreading farside less after the catchup.

[Wingback]

Farside

, why were you reading Thor as town in your Post 168? You list a bunch of problems you have with his early posts in your Post 771 but all of these incidents happened before you originally called him town.

Lying Cat

,

Massive

and

Thor

, can you post a list of your reads please? I'd also like both (Lying Cat, Thor) of your thoughts on Farside's catch up posts.

Pistachi0n

, please address my Post 751.

---

You know what, fuck it, come
lynch me i don't care anymore,

it'll be fun to see your face

for mislynching Town Sakura, when you've never done that mistake before.

This reads like you are townreading Nacho. But you aren't based on your other posts. Explain.

@Lying Cat: Your argument that farside agreed with ETL twice and thus should be town reading ETL is a weak one.

I've made this same argument. Why didn't you ask me about it?

PEdit: How about Concrete's case on Pistach which I literally mentioned in that goddamn post?

As far as I know, I'm the only one who's made a "case" on Pistachi0n. What is this "case" you are talking about? Quote it.

That comes from my belief that players tend to scumread people who scumread them.

I view this as weak, juvenile play. If a player is unable to see town motivation in attacks on them, they have a long way to go to improve as a player.

It seems like most people in this thread are townreading Vedith based on his attack on Ank.

Not me. There's something else besides his attack on Ank that is a ridiculously strong towntell.

---

Despite wanting elaboration on his thought processes, I'm reading Nacho as town. The pool of non-townreads I want more content from are: Pistachi0n, Massive, Lying Cat, Thor, and Cataphant. I'm going to go with Massive just because how absurdly underwhelmed I'm getting based on the lack of content. Pistachi0n is at least being batshit crazy by continuing to insist that Davsto is scum.

VOTE: Massive

[Wingback]

I'll explain the flip on my Lying Cat read briefly. Partly, it has to do with the two claims (Hecatia, Davsto) as well as two other slots looking a lot more town than Lying Cat which pushed them down my townlist. Secondly, their posting has been too focused on Thor. Thor is happily indulging them which just seems to be his playstyle. But someone who knows Thor and is at least decent as scum and can hold their own in an argument could easily use Thor as a distraction to develop increasingly inane arguments until the entire interaction is buried under a pile of muck no one wants to read. You gave a few reads besides Thor earlier but didn't develop them much at all. What are your reads now? Talk about how you seeing the (non-Thor) playerlist as a whole.

[Nachomamma8]

Who in this playerlist would you anticipate me being paranoid of Nacho?

And it's not the same with pie regarding ETL- I think she would be funneling it into the scum PT rather than in-thread.

The paranoia I'm expecting from you is less "oh I'm scared of a strong player!" and more "I'm considering situations that other players aren't".

Paranoia shows depth of process and is town because it considers a wide range of possibilities; it's hard to fake because it takes creativity as scum to come up with thought processes that aren't likely to generate support because they are ridiculous but they also don't look incredibly fake. I expect more paranoia from you than I expect from the average player, but I wasn't scumreading you because of lack of paranoia: I was scumreading you because your thought processes were shallow.

[Nachomamma8]

notty also warned me that he was looking for someone else to throw into the fire after he couldn't push us anymore and that whoever he chose would be Town (In this case Cataphant), he didn't want me to vote him until he had done that.

Like this is the towniest thing that came from your side of the hydra and is what I would classify as paranoia.

[Wingback]

@ Nachomamma8

@Lying Cat: Your argument that farside agreed with ETL twice and thus should be town reading ETL is a weak one.

I've made this same argument. Why didn't you ask me about it?

[Wingback]

A few more follow-up questions for Lying Cat:

The reason you aren't scum with far is the same reason she might be scum.

What would this reason be and why does it mean that Concrete can't be scum with Farside?

As far as reads, you're slightly town, but you need to be more town. Far and cat are both possible scum for different, possibly mutually exclusive (although I'll think more on that) reasons.

I can maybe see where you are coming from here since Cataphant's defense of Farside doesn't look like scum defending their partner. Do you have more fleshed out reasons for this?

I also don't think I fully understand your basis for Post 457. You say things like:

Next on the list is ETAngels.

Of course, that brings us to Sakura.

Which leaves us to the other course: Thor.

This gives me the impression that there's some sort of "list" you are working with that you aren't fully disclosing. For instance, why are Farside, Cataphant, Concrete, Hecatia, and Thor the only ones you are talking about? What happened to the rest of the playerlist? The time has come to unravel what was behind the scenes.

And I'm beating him over the head with inane and stupid bullshit to get him to the point where he lashes out.

And you are doing this why exactly? Has there been a time in the past where Thor lashed out at you and you ended successfully ended up reading him as town? If so, link me to that game.

You've non-RVS voted in this game twice. In Post 132, you voted Thor. In Post 551, you voted Thor (again). That's it. Why are you so obsessed with Thor?

[Wingback]

Alternatively, I could see Lying Cat and Thor as scum together fabricating this argument. Both seem the type to be capable of orchestrating a natural-looking interaction as scum.

[Davsto]

It'll likely take me a couple of days to properly catch up; want to try to catchup in a more pro town way than my usual "read nothing, start doing things later".

Just decided to look at Nacho's ISO and ahahahahaha

You don't think that my catchup has been protown? Why is that?

No I just find it quite amusing that you said it'll take you a couple of days to catch up and then within a few hours you're already doing things.

@Wingback

- huh, I could swear Concrete had a case on pistach. It was probably you though, I don't really pay that much attention. Sorry

[Davsto]

Why is your vote still on Dav? Do you think that he is lying then?

He avoided taking a stance on anything in his early play, yes, I think he's lying about being The Birds.

You're kidding me, right?

[Davsto]

I mean it's not like I literally crumbed it in my first post by saying I hated cats and voting someone who kept saying "squawk".

(I

do

need to stop crumbing because it'll start affecting my scumplay since it'll make it hard to fakeclaim if crumbing becomes part of my meta, but I crumbed in this game.)

[Nachomamma8]

@ Nachomamma8

@Lying Cat: Your argument that farside agreed with ETL twice and thus should be town reading ETL is a weak one.

I've made this same argument. Why didn't you ask me about it?

I didn't notice you made it; I skimmed your post talking about your big three earlier until I had a laptop; links are something I don't have the patience for on a phone.

[Lying Cat]

I didn't forget about you and I'm caught up. I'm just not gonna make a meaningful post tonight. See you tomorrow afternoon.

[Vedith]

He avoided taking a stance on anything in his early play, yes, I think he's lying about being The Birds.

Although early game he wasn't severely opinionated his reads were there and his involvement wasn't suspicious, Dav's play seems town.
At this stage scum will want to get rid of the jailor, but try and make it viable to town. Concerning Dav's reads on people, did you feel that there wasn't enough effort in them or did you just not like them?

I don't like the slight push with no hard back up (considering that lynching Dav is going to be near enough impossible today), and the reason you gave is easily countered meaning that you can retract you vote on realising and push with another wagon.

Not a fan of this to be honest. If a wagon forms over to you I'm not against it.
However, I'm still more for the Ank lynch.

[massive]

I'm here. I'm reading. I'm surprised to see a Nacho. brb.