Newbie 1656 : Game Over

[lordj210]

silver you seem to be saying that everyones reads is wrong, you mind shareing your reads

[Sakura Hana]

Someone RQSing isn't town or scum. I've seen both alignments do it.

Yeah, but it depends on whether he does something with them later.

[Ether]

So, um...is there anyone except me who

isn't

null-reading Sakura?

[Sakura Hana]

Apparently Ocean is townreading me, i don't know why.

[SilverWolf]

silver you seem to be saying that everyones reads is wrong, you mind shareing your reads

I've given them and discussed them in some detail.

Sakura and Mighty Mandarin are null.

You, Loha, and OceanWind are scummy.

Fairly strong townread on Ether, less of one on GM but still there, leaning town on MoosyDoosy as well.

[Ether]

Apparently Ocean is townreading me, i don't know why.

It's nice how in video games you can just press the "A" button and people will keep talking. You don't have to say anything or set the subject for yourself, they just go ahead and keep saying what they wanted to say. Reality is so much trickier than that.

I'm not sure what I'm asking yet. I'm asking

something

, though.

[MoosyDoosy]

OceanWind? I feel that the guy is town for now. It's hard to judge him when he refuses to take part in conversation, but it'll be interesting to see how his reads develop over time.

You think he's town but you can't really say anything about him because he's not participating in the discussion?

Ummm............What?

The way he's trying to figure out the game makes me think he's town. Although it's rather annoying that he won't participate in discussion. Which is why the key to finding out if he's scum is to look at how he develops his reads over time and/or pursues them.

[MoosyDoosy]

Mightymandarin

- town lean primarily because he's a newbie, but be wary. I don't like how he came into the thread trumpeting that he was a newbie and I'd like to see whether he keeps pulling the newbie card or not.

Why is being a newbie mean he's a townread?

@MoosyDoosy

His questions were from the mindset of a newbie townie trying to figure out how to play the game.

[lordj210]

Mightymandarin

- town lean primarily because he's a newbie, but be wary. I don't like how he came into the thread trumpeting that he was a newbie and I'd like to see whether he keeps pulling the newbie card or not.

Why is being a newbie mean he's a townread?

@MoosyDoosy

His questions were from the mindset of a newbie townie trying to figure out how to play the game.

so he only asks a couple of questions and hes town yet i give reads and actually active and im skum??? can anyone explain this one to me (be nice if silver could explain it)

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.07

(unchanged)

LoHa - 3 - goodmorning, Sakura Hana, MoosyDoosy
Ether - 1 - lordj210
goodmorning - 1 - LoHa
OceanWind - 1 - SilverWolf
SilverWolf - 1 - OceanWind

Not Voting: Mightymandarin, Ether

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-10-22 07:40:38)

[SilverWolf]

Mightymandarin

- town lean primarily because he's a newbie, but be wary. I don't like how he came into the thread trumpeting that he was a newbie and I'd like to see whether he keeps pulling the newbie card or not.

Why is being a newbie mean he's a townread?

@MoosyDoosy

His questions were from the mindset of a newbie townie trying to figure out how to play the game.

so he only asks a couple of questions and hes town yet i give reads and actually active and im skum??? can anyone explain this one to me (be nice if silver could explain it)

I have talked about this in a previous post. You can ISO me by hitting the ISO butting next to the post number at the top of my posts. That should give you a pretty good idea of what I'm thinking this game. Being active does not make a person town. You have to look at motivation in posts as well. You did a lot of theory/filler/fluff posting early game and you look like you are having trouble developing reads. Scum have a hard time with that. Especially developing good scumreads and an even harder time explaining them well. I am taking into account the fact that it just might be a newbie thing with you but I already explained how I don't like giving newbies a pass for being new because I've gotten burned by that before.

[MoosyDoosy]

Mightymandarin

- town lean primarily because he's a newbie, but be wary. I don't like how he came into the thread trumpeting that he was a newbie and I'd like to see whether he keeps pulling the newbie card or not.

Why is being a newbie mean he's a townread?

@MoosyDoosy

His questions were from the mindset of a newbie townie trying to figure out how to play the game.

so he only asks a couple of questions and hes town yet i give reads and actually active and im skum??? can anyone explain this one to me (be nice if silver could explain it)

…Well it is my read so I think I should explain it.

It's less about the amount of questions he asked and more about the psychology behind it. If you look at the questions that mightymandarin asked, a lot of them came from the mindset of a townie trying to figure out how to play the game. If he was scum, I doubt he would ask any questions in the thread and just ask them in the Mafia only thread. So the fact that he's engaging in this thread with questions that come from a townie perspective lead me to believe that he is town.

HOWEVER, I can see him being scum if this is all a ploy to paint himself in an extreme newbie picture and gain the favor of town early on which is why I said that I disliked how he kind of barged into the thread starting with how he was a newbie. It's also why I said we should be really careful when considering him later on into the game.

[Ether]

I don't think it was a ploy in the sense that he's secretly brilliant and trying to portray himself as helpless. But he had to post

something

, and asking newbie questions is much less work than giving reads--either real or fake.

The nature of the scum PT depends a lot on who's in it. If it's two newbies, then they wouldn't be getting a whole lot. (For that reason, if LoHa flips scum, I'd absolve goodmorning, SilverWolf and Sakura Hana then and there. I think if he had an experienced coach who was around early while his fate was less bleak, his play would look different.)

Mightymandarin's likely to get replaced tomorrow night, if he doesn't reappear. I really wish he'd just ask for replacement instead of waiting out the prod timer, if it has to be one of the two.

[goodmorning]

@lordj - but effort isn't necessarily indicative of alignment...

So, um...is there anyone except me who

isn't

null-reading Sakura?

Me, as of literally ages ago.

[Ether]

Why?

[Mightymandarin]

Sorry I haven't been around. I had a busy weekend. I'll try to be more active in the thread.

lordj210 - Why don't you use punctuation in your posts? Why do you spell things wrong on purpose? I'm not reading you either way, there's just so much "noise" in your posts it's painful to read. Could you try?

I know everyone is dogpiling on LoHa right now because his reasoning is weak and he's being aggressive. But wouldn't Mafia play more lightly, less aggressively in a newbie game? I don't necessarily read him as scum at this point.

I think the more dangerous people are Ether and Sakura because they have a lot of experience so if they are scum then they will play well, and they're both so neutral and un-opinionated and logical in everything. I don't trust people without emotions.

No vote from me, but unless someone can convince me I don't think LoHa is scum. I'm suspicious of Ether.

Again, I will make my best effort to be more active in the thread, feel free to ask me any questions. I will post something with more content tomorrow.

[Ether]

I know everyone is dogpiling on LoHa right now because his reasoning is weak and he's being aggressive. But wouldn't Mafia play more lightly, less aggressively in a newbie game?

Try again.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura

without emotions.

Well, i know you guys don't know me but this kiiiiiinda like the entirely opposite of me.

[LoHa]

If his RQS will lead somewhere then we will know later in the game, I'm mostly thinking is towny of him because he wants information, while it's possible that scum him would ask the same questions, It's whether he does anything with them later on that will tell.

This is a terrible reason for a townread considering this................

Thing is i haven't read Ocean's posts in detail because everytime i start reading his quote wall my eyes start glazing around and my mind starts slipping away, hence my previous post about me wanting him to just make a concise case instead of just quoting things if he has one.

How can you townread someone you've barely read?

Good post, if a bit too debate.org for my taste, still.

[LoHa]

Got to admit, that last post makes me embarrassed not to be voting him.

He's given up, SilverWolf.

Your hysterical and inflated reads and behavior aren't throwing me off my game as much as you'd like to imagine.

[LoHa]

You said this before you asked the question, if I was scum I would've compromised my play and answered accordingly to appease you, in an attempt to get you off my case.

Dat Self-meta

Meta has no business here. Player A wants to get Player X off his back so he answers his redundant question as if it was a good one and gives Player X a good feeling about himself, thus conditioning him to give back good feelings in the form of townreads, i.e. scum, because town doesn't want inflated townreads, town would rather have unadulterated feedback about his and other people's play because town wants to figure out the game and other townies can help him if they stay objective.

Player B wants to get Player X off his back as well, if only because Player X is causing an unnecessary distraction, but B won't sugercoat the awfulness of the question and expects further to be rewarded with the same amount of candidness. In fact he's probing the playerlist to see who is capable of this trait so he can get to work on day2 and find some scum, now with a fairly decent psychological profile on each of the players at his aid. Sacrificing day1 sympathy, the appearance of being oh so interested and invested in the game has to make way for the tactic and discipline to gain instruments of scumdetection for player B, who is town, to assure a win for his team.

Ether, are you going to be this neurotic about me being scum all game long? I think it's pretty clear who your nr.1 scumspect is without you reformulating it each and every time. What do you think that does anyway. How do you find scum? Finding someone you do n't seem to resonate with and neurotically, exaggeratingly deathtunnel that person seems suboptimal to me, at least on day1.

Uhh, i don't think Ether's tunneling. She's giving opinion on other players, not just focusing on you.[/quote]

So if someone is exaggerating reads and being hysterical about their vote, ignoring other players in the process then that's tunneling; but if she does talk about other stuff too that's fine?

[lordj210]

Sorry I haven't been around. I had a busy weekend. I'll try to be more active in the thread.

lordj210 - Why don't you use punctuation in your posts? Why do you spell things wrong on purpose? I'm not reading you either way, there's just so much "noise" in your posts it's painful to read. Could you try?

I know everyone is dogpiling on LoHa right now because his reasoning is weak and he's being aggressive. But wouldn't Mafia play more lightly, less aggressively in a newbie game? I don't necessarily read him as scum at this point.

I think the more dangerous people are Ether and Sakura because they have a lot of experience so if they are scum then they will play well, and they're both so neutral and un-opinionated and logical in everything. I don't trust people without emotions.

No vote from me, but unless someone can convince me I don't think LoHa is scum. I'm suspicious of Ether.

Again, I will make my best effort to be more active in the thread, feel free to ask me any questions. I will post something with more content tomorrow.

as ive said before my spelling sucks, even in the game that i replaced into people said the same thing you just said spelling and puncuation was horrid. i try to remember to right click every red underlined word for spell checking but often forget. will try to get better with the spelling

[lordj210]

You said this before you asked the question, if I was scum I would've compromised my play and answered accordingly to appease you, in an attempt to get you off my case.

Dat Self-meta

Meta has no business here. Player A wants to get Player X off his back so he answers his redundant question as if it was a good one and gives Player X a good feeling about himself, thus conditioning him to give back good feelings in the form of townreads, i.e. scum, because town doesn't want inflated townreads, town would rather have unadulterated feedback about his and other people's play because town wants to figure out the game and other townies can help him if they stay objective.

Player B wants to get Player X off his back as well, if only because Player X is causing an unnecessary distraction, but B won't sugercoat the awfulness of the question and expects further to be rewarded with the same amount of candidness. In fact he's probing the playerlist to see who is capable of this trait so he can get to work on day2 and find some scum, now with a fairly decent psychological profile on each of the players at his aid. Sacrificing day1 sympathy, the appearance of being oh so interested and invested in the game has to make way for the tactic and discipline to gain instruments of scumdetection for player B, who is town, to assure a win for his team.

in english can you explain this to me

[goodmorning]

Why?

The way she was trying to sort me. It's not something she couldn't do as Scum, but I feel pretty comfortable calling her Town for it atm.

@mandarin: Do you have any reads at all that aren't based on playstyle? Playstyle isn't alignment-indicative at all.

So if someone is exaggerating reads and being hysterical about their vote, ignoring other players in the process then that's tunneling; but if she does talk about other stuff too that's fine?

w o w

This is pretty bad.

[OceanWind]

I've sort of skimmed and caught up. I'm the type of player who likes composes all thoughts into a single post because I dislike games that go too long post count wise and the deadlines on mafiascum seem much longer than average. I can see the value in interaction as a way to get reads though. So, instead of another long wall, I'll stick around for a couple of hours and if you have any questions, ask.