Newbie 1656 : Game Over

[SilverWolf]

LoHa you should claim. Ether has declared intent. I disagree with her saying it doesn't have to happen. There are a maximum of 2 PR's in a newbie game. It is better to claim if you are a PR, no matter if it gets you killed at night or rendered useless. It's better for us to lynch someone else. If you happen to be scum fakeclaiming then the actual PR that either has your role or knows your role isn't possible can and should cc. Because outing themselves to take down 50% of the scumteam is absolutely worth it.

So claim please.

And no one hammer until he does.

He looks much worse in this interaction with Sakura so I'm quite o.k. with this lynch. Especially since his ISO doesn't look very townie.

If he's town, I'm gonna take a look at MoosyDoosy tomorrow who hasn't done much of anything but push this lynch. If he's scum, then that makes MoosyDoosy much less likely to be as bussing this hard D1 is not a good scum strategy in newbie games.

[SilverWolf]

I also would love to hear more from OceanWind and Mighty Mandarin today as well if that's at all possible. They've barely contributed anything at all.

[goodmorning]

Friendly reminder that you (goodmorning) never answered my question about the meta.

Because it's already been answered by my previous posts. You keep trying to talk about words and deeds. That's not what I'm meta reading.

these past few pages of back and frth has me extreamly confused now

Me too.

--
I sort of agree with Ether on the subject of claiming, with the addition that 'intent to hammer' is common these days and at that point ought to precipitate a claim, since you're going to be lynched anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

@Ether: I keep coming bakc with "sLaiNi" as a possibility unless it's someone i played a long time ago, which is weird coz sLaiNi's still a newbie.

[MoosyDoosy]

I mean. When you guys started jumping at each other and pointing fingers, LoHa was just on the side sheeping votes, arguing about things on himself and over semantics. And sure, arguing over semantics to clarify a point is fine, but LoHa was just trying to claim something completely false. There's no way his intentions weren't to sheep when he literally just said he thought there were more votes on the wagon.

I just don't know what this man is doing. Whenever he comes in all he does is argue words, clutter the thread, and throw stuff at people. Most I can say is mafia or bad town that will screw us over later. And I'm pretty sure that he's Mafia.

I guess I

could

stop you guys from pointing fingers at each other and push LoHa's lynch more, but we do need to generate some discussion to analyze later down the line. But the main thing is that LoHa is doing scummy stuff and there's no way we're going to let him pass for it.

[goodmorning]

^painfully town

[lordj210]

I mean. When you guys started jumping at each other and pointing fingers, LoHa was just on the side sheeping votes, arguing about things on himself and over semantics. And sure, arguing over semantics to clarify a point is fine, but LoHa was just trying to claim something completely false. There's no way his intentions weren't to sheep when he literally just said he thought there were more votes on the wagon.

I just don't know what this man is doing. Whenever he comes in all he does is argue words, clutter the thread, and throw stuff at people. Most I can say is mafia or bad town that will screw us over later. And I'm pretty sure that he's Mafia.

I guess I

could

stop you guys from pointing fingers at each other and push LoHa's lynch more, but we do need to generate some discussion to analyze later down the line. But the main thing is that LoHa is doing scummy stuff and there's no way we're going to let him pass for it.

so we lynch Loha today he flips town who do we look most at d2??
we lynch him today he flips skum who do we look at d2 as being his partner??


i think we agree on Loha Lynch today we can spend a couple of days looking at other people for each of the above scenarios

[Sakura Hana]

so we lynch Loha today he flips town who do we look most at d2??
we lynch him today he flips skum who do we look at d2 as being his partner??

Why everytime someone asks these questions, people come up with answers and then a NK makes their answers change.
I don't see the reason to try to search for information before we have guaranteed alignment information, otherwise its like trying to look for a certain needle in a haysack without knowing what you're looking for. And gives scum more info to make their NK.

[SilverWolf]

Associative tells and the like can be looked at D2 if LoHa is scum. If he's town, we've got VCA and wagon analysis to look at. There's no point in doing that before a flip since we don't know LoHa's alignment 100% until the mod tells us.

[MoosyDoosy]

So we're just waiting to see if he claims or not?

[SilverWolf]

Yes, he should get a chance to claim and give last words if he chooses to do so.

[lordj210]

folks i will be away for the most pat of the weekend got military obligations but will be able to post in the evenings when i get home. i also agree Loha should claim if he puts an actual argument to convince enough people as he is what he says he is VT or PRT he might actually survive the day as it is he looks more or less dead now

[LoHa]

I still don't see you clarifying a supposed argument I'm hiding so yeah. Also, as you should know by now I wasn't sheeping Ether, I might have insinuated it to further my investigation, I see you're making a big deal of it and I interpret it as scummy.

^
Scum Posting.
You are separating from your own argument by using semantics and now you keep saying that im making shit up, yeah, this isn't town.

What argument? If she can't name the argument, means she's painting and there's nothing for me to defend against even though she makes it look like there is. Why would town make it look like she's on the offensive if not to save her own skin, which is self-preservation and not exactly alignment indicative if it weren't for her own tell, according to which town is more carefree => has no reason to make a paint job look like a real offensive, well she does so.. Scum.

Again you are timetraveling. You may not invoke stuff that happened after you called me an opportunist to justify calling me an opportunist. Logic 1 o 1

What the fricken fuck.
Are you serious with this?
I called you opportunist because you voted me with Zero reasoning other than me liking being voted as soon as pressure was getting onto me, now you're trying to say you weren't despite me bringing up that you missed stuff, so from your PoV i was being suspected and now you're are reasoning that you actually didn't miss it but it was your intention all along.

She called me opportunist for voting her as the second on her wagon after Ether unvoted. I ask her why and that's where the shitstorm begins, because she can't explain why without using stuff that happened after.. if this is not representative of scummy behavior there is no such thing. Town would immediately back down and admit having done this, without necessarily compromising her read, just admitting she was wrong to avoid painting.

yeah, no. I don't see why that's supposedly scummy. Elaborate.

You didnt out reasons and got called out on it, your response after a lot of arguing is "OH I ACTUALLY HAD HIDDEN REASONS" and not correct them, so apparently im supposed to be a mind reader and know you had reasons and so i shouldn't have called you out on opportunism?

She didn't call me out on not having reasons, she called me out on opportunism which I don't buy she didn't know the definition of.

Now she can't answer why keeping reasons hidden is scummy, which was predictable because it's not. Town is responsible only for finding scum and if keeping reasons hidden for the sake of reaction testing is serving that purpose. I now have considerably more info on Sakura than I would've if I would've just thrown it at her at a time were nobody cared what I was saying.

[LoHa]

I am 1-shot Bulletproff, a.k.a. Town Veteran (Standard Liquid Mafia Role on teamliquid.net)

My arguments and behavior have been extremely town and coherent, if you lynch me it's your own inadequacy, not mine. I am available for any and all discussion regarding supposed scumminess of anything I've done this game, and I'm confident I can argue my points objectively and logically. I am not responsible for your emotional or otherwise irrational assessment of the situation, but I can help you see the light if you care to make the first stem to disambiguate and make a case against me or something.

As for reads, it's pretty hard to distinguish alignments in this game, and my playstyle is most efficient if I live through day 1, because I mostly just probe for intelligence and the capability for objectivity and logic .. get to know people so to speak.

[LoHa]

I'm not even sure about Sakura, but objectively no town should act like her or Ether but it might be a noob playstyle, regardless of experience.

[LoHa]

The main obstacle for me living through this day is swarm stupidity. Someone throws in an exaggeration and it gets repeated, without cross-referencing the validity of the claim in the first place, which is understandable because why would you invest so much time in a game of mafia, there's no prize and therefore no penalty for overeagerness; and the victors or the loud people are free to distort merit as they see fit post-game.

@Ether Why would you ever attack someone's posting style? You mentioned 'thesaurus' twice, said it was to act smart. I say I like to feel smart when I articulate what I want to say using the semantic instruments that serve that purpose superlatively. Even if you are scum there are certain ethics involved that shouldn't be crossed but if you're town you're utterly incompetent. Because now the popularity of a supposed 'arguing semantics' got popular and I lack the prowess to even consider to lower myself to that level and entertain its existence but I guess I have to put in extra effort and compensate for swarm stupidity.

[LoHa]

In case you were wonder; Yes, 29 was a crumb.

[SilverWolf]

LoHa-I never would of gotten the Veteran crumb as I've never heard of that before. I thought you were talking about your experience level which confused me somewhat. I'm gonna take a look at teamliquid and see what you are talking about because I think it will help me understand you more.

I believe your claim. These last few posts of yours look pretty good. When you were suspicious of GM and suddenly voted for Sakura for liking votes on her, that bugged me because it looked like an opportunistic switch.

But in any case, I'm not interested in lynching LoHa today and would like to look elsewhere.

We have a few days. I'm gonna re-ISO and re-read a few things when I have time.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.11

L-1 LoHa - 4 - goodmorning, Sakura Hana, lordj210, MoosyDoosy
goodmorning - 1 - SilverWolf
Sakura Hana - 1 - LoHa
SilverWolf - 1 - OceanWind

Not Voting: Mightymandarin, Ether

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-10-22 07:40:38)

V/LA: Sakura Hana, through Saturday October 17; goodmorning through Sunday October 18

[SilverWolf]

@Mightmandarin-Can you please tell us who you are suspicious of right now?

[Sakura Hana]

but objectively no town should act like her or Ether

Yet you said:

You don't think sheeping Ether is a good idea?

When i called you out for your opportunist vote.

Also why do ppl breadcrumb roles honestly it just makes it more likely mafia than town will find them.

VOTE: Moosy
Your argument is the argument that you were sheeping Ether, i mentioned it multiples times, can you read? Yes you were the 2nd vote on me, but you thought it was the 3rd, because you didnt realize Ether had unvoted me.

[SilverWolf]

I actually learned not to breadcrumb any more because I find them as scum and am oblivious to them as town.

VOTE: lordj

VOTE: vote loha the last few posts by her is just off starting to almost contradict everything she says not shure if its from the added pressure or because shes jut putting whatever out there and cant keep everything straight of wht shes saying

This vote was right in the middle of the Sakura/LoHa debate and you just slid your vote in there to put LoHa to L-1.
Then there's this vote.

VOTE: Sakura i dont like that she is saying she must be town because shes playing differant then she typically dose and is trying to emulate her skum play, something jsut dont sit right with the fact that shes "trying" to play like her skum play

Right in the middle of the Ether/Sakura debate where you once again slid your vote in, in the middle of it.

Plus, what I said here 293 and here 310.

[SilverWolf]

I kind of like 504 from Moosy.

OceanWind and MightyMandarin are too UTR (under the radar) for my taste.

I'm not interested in lynching Ether or Sakura today and I need more time I think to figure out GM.

[MoosyDoosy]

I am 1-shot Bulletproff, a.k.a. Town Veteran (Standard Liquid Mafia Role on teamliquid.net)

My arguments and behavior have been extremely town and coherent, if you lynch me it's your own inadequacy, not mine. I am available for any and all discussion regarding supposed scumminess of anything I've done this game, and I'm confident I can argue my points objectively and logically. I am not responsible for your emotional or otherwise irrational assessment of the situation, but I can help you see the light if you care to make the first stem to disambiguate and make a case against me or something.

As for reads, it's pretty hard to distinguish alignments in this game, and my playstyle is most efficient if I live through day 1, because I mostly just probe for intelligence and the capability for objectivity and logic .. get to know people so to speak.

Hi n00bKing.

[MoosyDoosy]

Never thought I'd see you here, and especially in this game hm...? Well, at least things got interesting. mmm...I think I'll look over the thread again and at ISO's.