Newbie 1656 : Game Over

[Mightymandarin]

You should not be afraid of this if you are town and think GM is town.

I didn't mean worse for me.

Do you mean worse for the whole town? Because you're so definitely, assuredly town?

[SilverWolf]

Deadline: (expired on 2015-10-22 07:40:38)

We need to come to a consensus soon. A NL on D1 is really bad for town.

[Sakura Hana]

A NL on D1 is really bad for town.

So much this.

[LoHa]

A NL on D1 is really bad for town.

So much this.

Indeed. Everyone do hurry and articulate or paraphrase (if already posted) your best argument for your scumread's scumminess so that I may sheep the victor and we may begin the compromize-stage.

[Ether]

I could see lordj's line as a connection to LoHa. Like, if LoHa mentions his breadcrumb in the PT, and lordj gets it in his head that he's subtly foreshadowing it and adding credibility to the claim later. (For those of you who still think LoHa is confirmed town, and not just "could potentially be vindicated as town in the future depending on the setup and flips," it can't be associative, so it probably doesn't mean anything. Unless you'd like to reconsider!) I'd be willing to vote lordj.

I still don't think goodmorning is scum. Hmm hmm.

You should not be afraid of this if you are town and think GM is town.

I didn't mean worse for me.

Do you mean worse for the whole town? Because you're so definitely, assuredly town?

You're kind of annoying!

And no, that's obviously not what I meant in context.

[lordj210]

ive read through i still aint to shure but i know wee slowly running out of town id hate to vote for GM but i think in the need of getting a lynch(as even a ML is better then a NO for town) hopefully either way it flips we will be able to get some sort of more clear picture of what we have. im gonna VOTE: goodmorning

674
@Ocean response to hopefully make the post you questioned me about, i went with Loha because to me it seemed as if some of her posts was contradicting what hse had said just more or less the post before, on hindsight it very well may have been LoHa was flustered with the back and forth and was tired of it im not shure

699
@SilverWolf yes i remember saying that, the part that i was thinking was a hint/breadcrumb of a PR was from 137 I suggest you take care not to misrepresent, it might paint me scummy and you don't want that if you're town.

the reason i took this as a hint was because LoHa was more or less in my head saying dont make me look skummy im town i got a PR i gotta use it (it stemmed from the part at the very end of the sentance that says "you dont want that if your town")

so Sillver and Ocean i hope the post makes since

[OceanWind]

689 (GoodMorning) - I did look over the end of your 408 and it still doesn't make sense. What do you mean by "the way in which [Sakura] questioned your RV?" You are being really vague about "tone and motivation" and I'm not really seeing a clear answer. The way you handled SilverWolf is one of the reasons I started seeing you as the scummy one in the pair. You insist you'd be an idiot to scumread her but you weren't actually scumreading her. She was the aggressor and your posts come across like you are trying to parry her attacks and leave her on the backburner without taking a hard stance. If I'm mistaken, can you point to a place where you scumread SilverWolf without prompting? Finally, I obviously read MoosyDoosy's 504 and didn't find it town. Telling me to "look at it" isn't going to change anything.

704 (Ether) - I really hate that Ether's biggest problem with me is that I apparently don't engage with the game or interact with people and just write my walls. But when I specifically asked Ether questions and attempted to engage, she basically ignored me and I think that points to her complaints about my lack of interaction to be just for show. I don't think Ether is partnered with GoodMorning though. If she were, I'd expect that she would push a counter wagon that's not me rather than just posture about how GoodMorning isn't mafia but she's not going to do anything about it. I still think GoodMorning is mafia but if I'm wrong and she flips town, I want to look at Ether next.

705 (Lordj) - Can you be more specific about what exactly was contradictory in LoHa's posts and why you found it scummy?

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.15

L-1 goodmorning - 4 - Sakura Hana, OceanWind, SilverWolf, lordj210
LoHa - 2 - MoosyDoosy, goodmorning
OceanWind - 1 - Ether

Not Voting: Mightymandarin, LoHa

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-10-22 07:40:38)

V/LA: ...

[Ether]

I don't know

what

to do about it. I reached out to goodmorning, she hasn't budged from a lynch she can't get and somehow managed to dig herself deeper in the process, I'd counterwagon if I had a clue what a viable counterwagon would even be, feel like I barely have any common ground with anyone here to work with them let alone four of them, I don't even know.

Like I said, I'm not interested in answering every single wall of text question you come up with. You can repeat what you want if you want it, but waiting over 36 hours between posts after you did your big catchup doesn't really convince me that you care all that much. (Also, I didn't actually read them that thoroughly, not gonna lie. I was kind of expecting you to actually talk to people once you finished, I thought the catchup was more showing your work before you'd get to the fun part.)

Prod MoosyDoosy, please.

[Mightymandarin]

You're kind of annoying!

And no, that's obviously not what I meant in context.

Annoying like the community you find yourself distanced from?

What did you mean then? I find your play to be annoying. You ignore any point I've (as well as others') been trying to make (whether they're good or not).

My guess is you're scum trying to gain credibility by half-heartedly defending a townie you know is likely going to be lynched.

Ocean makes a good case and everyone seems on board, but I don't get much tells from GM enough to warrant a vote.

We still have a whole day left.

[Nobody Special]

MoosyDoosy has been prodded.

[OceanWind]

708 (Ether) - I post whenever my schedule allows it and while I spent the entire Sunday catching up with this game, I don't normally have that much time.

What do you mean "actually talk to people?" How have I not been talking to anyone?

[OceanWind]

@ Ether, do you have reads beyond "LoHa is scum and the IC/SEs are town because LoHa doesn't look like he was being coached?" What do you think of each player's play in the game thus far?

[LoHa]

I don't know

what

to do about it. I reached out to goodmorning, she hasn't budged from a lynch she can't get and somehow managed to dig herself deeper in the process, I'd counterwagon if I had a clue what a viable counterwagon would even be, feel like I barely have any common ground with anyone here to work with them let alone four of them, I don't even know.

Like I said, I'm not interested in answering every single wall of text question you come up with. You can repeat what you want if you want it, but waiting over 36 hours between posts after you did your big catchup doesn't really convince me that you care all that much. (Also, I didn't actually read them that thoroughly, not gonna lie. I was kind of expecting you to actually talk to people once you finished, I thought the catchup was more showing your work before you'd get to the fun part.)

Prod MoosyDoosy, please.

I'll take that as he's scummy because he doesn't care about the game, judging by his catchup-posting style which isn't fun for town; meaning scum is likely to postpone or abstain from getting to the fun-for-town part alltogether.

[Mightymandarin]

I'm going to unvote, even though I still think he's scum.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Opportunistic, playing circumstances well, following the trends of the thread, staying just active enough to not be suspicious. You're either great at being scum, or mediocre at being town because you've hardly swayed anyone either way. You tried to get a few wagons on different people throughout the thread, no one took the bait, and now Ocean has built a case during the sweet spot of the day where the clock is running out and we have to vote for

someone

, and of course it would look suspicious to jump on board with that now, so you defend her. Then again, I'm not very good at mafia, and I remember this happening in one of the only other 2 games I've played, making a gut-feeling case against someone who turned out to be town.

I re-read the thread again and I honestly don't know. I guess because goodmorning seems to play with cards-to-chest, but in a way that doesn't strike me as conniving. I almost feel more suspicious of Ocean at this point for saying I'm such a strong-town read based on newbishness when my play could easily be seen as scummy, because I'm kind of all over the place I realize.

[OceanWind]

I'm not townreading you just for being new, it is based on scum being more careful before accusing multiple SEs and you reads went against the grain. I actually find being all over the place a pretty strong towntell as scum have good reason to be more cautious and judicious in who they suspect because they care about their survival and wouldn't tread on too many people.

[Mightymandarin]

How do you post just a link to a person's post #?

[Ether]

Sakura - Town, once she got back to her roots.

SilverWolf - I've been assuming she's town. Fairly active, apparently read four games' worth of meta homework, I'll take it. That she tricked goodmorning twice gives me pause, I guess, but in the end I'm not really interested.

goodmorning - I think if she were scum she wouldn't have dug herself so deep, unless she seriously thought she could get a no lynch. I don't think she'd still be voting LoHa as scum. (Although 698, so I don't even know.) I get the vibe that I realized she was on the verge of everyone piling onto her before she did, which is...probably a town tell on her part? Also I don't think she's scum with LoHa, since everything else I said here is a pretty recent development.

Mightymandarin - I dunno. I don't really think he's scum. I'd go for him if I absolutely had to; I wouldn't be wild about it.

OceanWind - You made two posts back when you replaced in. Then nothing, except one day when you asked other people to give you questions. Then your catchup. Then this, so at least that's a step up? Unsurprisingly, I still don't trust you.

MoosyDoosy - Meh.

lordj - Could be scum? I can see a lot of things tying him to LoHa. Some of those things were actually influencing me townreading him before LoHa's claim, but like SilverWolf noted the veteran thing sort of bothers me for that.

Worth noting that that off-site town game he mentioned is complete now, if anyone wants to compare it.

LoHa - I still think he's scum. But if he's town, the means to confirm him exist depending on flips, soooo I'm not actually interested in lynching him today.

---

Annoying like the community you find yourself distanced from?

What did you mean then? I find your play to be annoying. You ignore any point I've (as well as others') been trying to make (whether they're good or not).

Huh?

I meant that I was scared that by defending goodmorning, I'd just make people go, "Well, Ether's probably scum with goodmorning anyway, let's keep lynching goodmorning." When I

did

try to help her, it just made things worse for her, although not for that reason.

I'm...not sure what points you're getting at? As far as I know you hadn't actually made any points against me as of that post that you haven't shot down yourself when I asked.

Opportunistic, [...], following the trends of the thread,

You tried to get a few wagons on different people throughout the thread,

Which is it?

I pushed LoHa until he got a wagon on him, then unvoted because I didn't want him lynched yet, and he took a place as the default lynch in everyone's brains for a while. I pushed Sakura until she obvtowned herself, then stopped. (Even if SilverWolf helped snap me into realizing Sakura was finally serious.) Up until the goodmorning wagon the votecount was scattered with everyone on their own little 1-person wagons, and I didn't much like any of those, so...yeah, I tried making my own, and it didn't get traction either. I disagree that no one took the bait, up until this deadline trainwreck. But even if they didn't, why would that be scummy?

I'm not "just active enough to not be suspicious." I have the second highest postcount in the thread, and it'd be first if I hadn't called Sakura out and gotten her out of her shell. I don't understand what you're getting at with why my behavior toward goodmorning is wrong, especially since your wording seems to imply it'd be even worse if I

did

vote her. It's a lose/lose proposition and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to come out of that sort of attack

not

looking worse.

[Mightymandarin]

ive read through i still aint to shure but i know wee slowly running out of town id hate to vote for GM but i think in the need of getting a lynch(as even a ML is better then a NO for town) hopefully either way it flips we will be able to get some sort of more clear picture of what we have. im gonna VOTE: goodmorning

Isn't this a pretty bad reason to vote? You should be convinced by his argument, it should align with your own suspicions which you perhaps were unable to articulate yourself. It shouldn't be based on "well we gotta lynch somebody" even though I know we do.

Just to reiterate, we still have 30+ hours left, we've gotten all these votes on GM in about that amount of time.

Still, I guess there's so little information to go on Day 1, the first lynch

is

based more on hunches/tone than deductive reasoning?

[Ether]

There's an icon to the left of the post number that looks like a scrap of paper. That has the URL you want.

[SilverWolf]

Just so you are aware, running a lynch down to the wire is never a good idea.

It is really bothering me that GM gave up like she did. I don't know how to read that. She's not putting up a fight and I can't be sure that's a scum or town reaction right now and I'm kind of confused. The way she said I'm not scumhunting but then admits she hasn't read me, really makes me wonder. She's just saying she doesn't want to deal with me. She started the game saying she enjoys me so what happened to change that. And now, this is not something I'm taking personally. I'm trying to figure out if it's alignment indicative. In the past 3 games where she's town-I was town in 2 of them and scum in one of them, she interacted with me a lot. There was no issues like this and my play isn't much different in this game.

But she's expecting bad things when she reads me even though she hadn't at the time. It's like she wants me to be scum for some reason. If she's town, I know I'm town, you'd think she'd work to figure me out and try to work with me this game. But she's just keeping me at arms length and even kind of acting like I'm too annoying to deal with. She knows my town game. I'm not being a pain in her ass on purpose here just to bother her. I'm trying to figure her out and poking people and getting them to react is one of many methods I use to do that.

I don't know. I'm kind of frustrated with her. I can maybe see her doing this as town although I see no reason whatsoever for her to do that but I can also definitely see this as scum play who doesn't want to deal with aggressive town that knows her. Although I've never played against her in the past when she's scum.

I don't know. I do know, I don't want to NL on D1.

[SilverWolf]

How do you post just a link to a person's post #?

Code: Select all

[post]post number you want to link[/post]

[Ether]

Yeah, SilverWolf's town.

[lordj210]

ive read through i still aint to shure but i know wee slowly running out of town id hate to vote for GM but i think in the need of getting a lynch(as even a ML is better then a NO for town) hopefully either way it flips we will be able to get some sort of more clear picture of what we have. im gonna VOTE: goodmorning

Isn't this a pretty bad reason to vote? You should be convinced by his argument, it should align with your own suspicions which you perhaps were unable to articulate yourself. It shouldn't be based on "well we gotta lynch somebody" even though I know we do.

Just to reiterate, we still have 30+ hours left, we've gotten all these votes on GM in about that amount of time.

Still, I guess there's so little information to go on Day 1, the first lynch

is

based more on hunches/tone than deductive reasoning?

its i know im gonna be gone tomarrow for work so wont be around a whole lot so im gonna settle now instead of possibly still sitting on no vote at the end of the day and being the decideing person and there being no lynch as i know that no lynch is worse then a mislynch

[OceanWind]

@ Ether (717) - Can you explain your MoosyDoosy read is less vague terms? You said in the past that he was below your radar but why weren't you interested in taking a look at him if that were the case? You don't say much at all about him and finally end up with a "meh" despite him posting prolifically? What do you think about my read on him?

Why would you be okay with voting MightyMandarin if you "don't really think he's scum?" I'm assuming that means he isn't really on the same level of town as SilverWolf, GoodMorning, and Sakura for you? Can you also explain this less vaguely? Were there posts that swayed you one way or the other?

Your reads seem fine on the surface the part troubling me is that you seem to have strong townreads on everyone of the remaining SEs/IC and all your "meh" reads and scumreads are among the remainder of the players. I'm assuming you think SilverWolf vs GoodMorning is TvT? What do you think of their individual interaction with each other? What do you think of my read on GoodMorning?

Can you explain what you mean by Sakura "obvtowned" herself? Is this based on the "lynch Ether when I flip town" challenge that she put forth? If that was so obviously town, why did you need SilverWolf to point it out to you before you backed off?