Newbie 1656 : Game Over

[Mightymandarin]

I pushed Sakura until she obvtowned herself, then stopped. (Even if SilverWolf helped snap me into realizing Sakura was finally serious.)

What is obvtowned? She's OBVIOUSLY town?

I'm not "just active enough to not be suspicious." I have the second highest postcount in the thread, and it'd be first if I hadn't called Sakura out and gotten her out of her shell. I don't understand what you're getting at with why my behavior toward goodmorning is wrong, especially since your wording seems to imply it'd be even worse if I

did

vote her. It's a lose/lose proposition and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to come out of that sort of attack

not

looking worse.

You've made a lot of posts that don't say much.

[Mightymandarin]

I meant that I was scared that by defending goodmorning, I'd just make people go, "Well, Ether's probably scum with goodmorning anyway, let's keep lynching goodmorning." When I

did

try to help her, it just made things worse for her, although not for that reason.

Isn't that what you're doing now? I don't understand what point you're trying to make. My point is you've voted and unvoted in a way that is

safe for you.

[Mightymandarin]

I've never used meta, but I stumbled across another newbie game with GM as IC and her play is almost exactly the same, although with definitely more effort in that game, but all we know the formula for that assumption.

[MoosyDoosy]

o/ If you guys are so antsy about goodmorning I'm always around as a lynch target. To be honest, if one of you switches onto me the rest will inevitably tumble onto the wagon as well.

[MoosyDoosy]

o.O Mightmandarin's done an abrupt switch. He goes from asking newbie town questions to confidently formulating reads. mmm...

[Ether]

Moosy's stance on LoHa is the main thing that's kept me back. I could be wrong about him, but I don't think he's a good lynch for today. I don't think I can elaborate much.

I don't think Mightymandarin's really been looking for scum at all, he's just coasting on that paranoia. But then I direct something critical his way and he says something paranoid again and all of that just melts. His new characterization of me is contradictory, kind of insulting and most of it is completely wrong, but at least it's more than "she seems logical, THAT DOESN'T MEAN SHE'S NOT SCUM, I BET SHE'S SCUM." Bluh. I think he's town, yeah.

Rest assured that my behavior toward goodmorning has never for a second made my life easier in any way. I think goodmorning/SilverWolf was/is TvT, yeah. I think SilverWolf is someone who gets bothered when people scumread her, even when it doesn't make any political sense for them to do it. (And she's expressed the same misgivings here already.) I don't really think anyone's suspicion toward goodmorning is scummy, exactly, including yours. The reasons for her reads don't really make sense to me either.

I mean Sakura flipping out earlier than that. The exchange that got SilverWolf to unvote her (404) also made me realize that it was probably wrong. I think I was figuring out on my own, but that push helped.

If Mightymandarin thinks my involvement is bad, then that's a double standard, plain and simple.

I'm gonna

unvote; vote: lordj210

. Dunno.

[Ether]

Hi, Moosy.

[SilverWolf]

o/ If you guys are so antsy about goodmorning I'm always around as a lynch target. To be honest, if one of you switches onto me the rest will inevitably tumble onto the wagon as well.

..................

[LoHa]

I mean Sakura flipping out earlier than that. The exchange that got SilverWolf to unvote her (404) also made me realize that it was probably wrong. I think I was figuring out on my own, but that push helped.

Scum don't usually play according to their town meta because it would give away their motive-driven behavior in the form of incoherence or logical fallacy.

The correct procedure once you identified that town meta is to ask yourself if there were sacrifices involved in emulating it like lack of good reasons to vote, contributing in forcing me to claim, misrepresenting me and my motives (among others making strawmen which you, were a fan of) and now going with the easy mislynch on GM even though she might be a day1-lazy town and starts being an asset from day2 onward.

@GM Are you a day-lazy person as town and should Sakura know that?

[goodmorning]

689 (GoodMorning) - I did look over the end of your 408 and it still doesn't make sense. What do you mean by "the way in which [Sakura] questioned your RV?" You are being really vague about "tone and motivation" and I'm not really seeing a clear answer.

That's because there really isn't a clear answer. Below-the-surface meta is really hard to explain; the only time I've ever managed to explain it even a little bit was in that game I referenced.

The way you handled SilverWolf is one of the reasons I started seeing you as the scummy one in the pair. You insist you'd be an idiot to scumread her but you weren't actually scumreading her. She was the aggressor and your posts come across like you are trying to parry her attacks and leave her on the backburner without taking a hard stance. If I'm mistaken, can you point to a place where you scumread SilverWolf without prompting?

I can't point to a post in this thread, no. Part of life is knowing when to speak and when to shut up, and it's a philosophy that's mostly treated me well this game.

Finally, I obviously read MoosyDoosy's 504 and didn't find it town. Telling me to "look at it" isn't going to change anything.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. Recognising NewbTown is something I've picked up over the ~3 years I've been playing here; if you stick around, I'd wager you'll pick it up too.

@GM Are you a day1-lazy person as town and should Sakura know that?

Well, I was definitely super lazy on D1 in the last game we were in together, but that was a Large, and I always get overwhelmed by Larges.

Short answer: my play in Newbies is erratic and inconsistent at best. See: I went LA and posted about a million times, then didn't go LA and disappeared for ~45 hours.

Should she know that? Maybe.

--

I'm going to catch up with everything, then come back and see what more I can do here. For now,

Vote: lordj

[SilverWolf]

Ugh, having second thought on GM. I'd be willing to move to lordj before deadline.

[MoosyDoosy]

I am not going to vote for goodmorning. For now eh.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: lordj210

[SilverWolf]

Like I said, I can switch to lordj by deadline. It would put lordj to L-1.

I would switch back to GM if I had to because a NL on D1 is terrible for town.

LoHa, MightyMandarin-you guys have to make a decision here.

Keep in mind, there hasn't even been a claim yet.

I'm pissed so many of you are messing around like this and running things up to deadline.

Whatever.

VOTE: lordj

L-1

[LoHa]

VOTE: Goodmorning

I haven't heard any arguments against lordj.

L-1 too.

[OceanWind]

@ GoodMorning (734), first off, what "below the surface" meta on Sakura do you have? Like, I keep asking this and you keep evading. You townread Sakura for "meta" which is fine. Then she called you out for it saying that she wasn't playing to her town "meta" which is also fine if you have an actual reason for it. But everytime I ask this, you keep dodging my question which looks like you just townread her to get on her good side and now you are trying and failing to manufacture reasons why you townread her in the first place. Secondly, you also didn't answer my question about SilverWolf. You said that if you were scum, you would "not bother" with SilverWolf. I pointed out that you never really attacked her in the first place and most of your engagement with SilverWolf was to parry her points. If you are subscribing to this "knowing when to speak up" philosophy, why did you not state that in the first place rather than wifom about how you wouldn't have bothered with Silver and because you are "bothering" that makes you town? Thirdly, could you state what about MoosyDoosy's 504 read newbtown because I don't see it. If you can "recognize newbtown," surely you can explain it.

@ Silver (737), don't abandon me now. I hate the way the Lordj wagon popped up from nowhere the minute you suggested that you'd move off of it and Moosy showed up out of the woodworks to push it. I didn't have a strong townread on Lordj but I'm feeling more confident that it's actually GoodMorning and Moosy as scum together. GoodMorning's last post didn't make me second guess my read. She's mostly dodging the questions I asked and her non-answers are likely the result of her not having good reasons and making them up afterwards.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

I am just panicking at the thought of a NL or that I didn't take the time I needed to figure out GM.

I don't want them both at L-1 or to have two claims right now.

I'll be back before deadline.

[SilverWolf]

OK, well I wonder if GM is stalling to get us to a NL.

She should know better.

Intent to hammer

GM-If you have anything else to say, now is the time.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.16

L-1 goodmorning - 4 - Sakura Hana, OceanWind, lordj210, LoHa
lordj210 - 3 - Ether, goodmorning, MoosyDoosy

Not Voting: Mightymandarin, SilverWolf

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-10-22 07:40:38)

V/LA: ...

[MoosyDoosy]

MightyMandarin should really vote though...

[SilverWolf]

Yep, but we are running out of time. MightMandarin should say who he wants to vote. I will hammer before deadline with or without a claim. GM should be here. Something is off. I do not think a NL will do anything but hurt us. She's probs scum here.

[Mightymandarin]

lordj210 sounds like a pretty legitimate towns-person to me; I wouldn't vote him.

goodmorning's play for me is harder to read. I'm going to re-read the case and the arguments against her, go think about it, then come back, because I honestly don't understand the case against her. She didn't give reads or something? She's just blended in this game for me, politely answered my questions, so maybe I'm biased.

I agree with Oceanwind on Moosy being scum. The apathy posts, the "you guys could always lynch me," sound like a bluff.

We still have 9 hours, we won't be going without a lynch tonight.

[Mightymandarin]

ok less than 9 hours, but still

[goodmorning]

@ GoodMorning (734), first off, what "below the surface" meta on Sakura do you have? Like, I keep asking this and you keep evading. You townread Sakura for "meta" which is fine. Then she called you out for it saying that she wasn't playing to her town "meta" which is also fine if you have an actual reason for it. But everytime I ask this, you keep dodging my question which looks like you just townread her to get on her good side and now you are trying and failing to manufacture reasons why you townread her in the first place.

You need to actually read the posts I linked the last couple times I tried to explain this to you. I'm not going to do it again.

Secondly, you also didn't answer my question about SilverWolf. You said that if you were scum, you would "not bother" with SilverWolf. I pointed out that you never really attacked her in the first place and most of your engagement with SilverWolf was to parry her points. If you are subscribing to this "knowing when to speak up" philosophy, why did you not state that in the first place rather than wifom about how you wouldn't have bothered with Silver and because you are "bothering" that makes you town?

I said I wouldn't have bothered with her as Town either unless I had to, do keep up.

Thirdly, could you state what about MoosyDoosy's 504 read newbtown because I don't see it. If you can "recognize newbtown," surely you can explain it.

It's just a thing, difficult to define, but you know it when you see it.

OK, well I wonder if GM is stalling to get us to a NL.

She should know better.

Intent to hammer

GM-If you have anything else to say, now is the time.

gross silver

this post is gross

Yes, I have things to say, and you need to stop panicking. I'll hammer myself if it comes down to it.

[lordj210]

wow looks like alot happened while i was away at work, i see i was pushed to L-1 at 1 point, i also see i got unvoted by 1 to bring me down to L-2, seems as how when i was at L-1 i didnt get lynched im going to guess that at least 1 skum was on that lynch bandwagon(if not both). i am thinking that if only 1 skum is/was on me then the other is on GM neither wants to be the hammer as it will draw attention to themselves. they are going in opposite dirrections as they want to somewhat distance themselves and also dont really care if there is a lych or not

im curious what exactly is the case on me other then some sort of slight connection between me and LoHa(when i saw something as a breadcrumb that wasnt a breadcrumb)

[lordj210]

and to add to the last point with that said im thinking GM is town ut with no time left to make a case and get a wagon going i feel it will be ether him or me today if there is a lynch