Open 32 - Pick Your Poison Mafia (Game Over!), before 470

[Thesp]

Setael replaces dylan41985, effective immediately.

[Setael]

I'll post once I've had a chance to read the thread - probably tomorrow.

[Thesp]

Day 2 Vote Count

Setael

- 3 (Shanba, Patrick, xyzzy)

mneme

- 2 (Thin_Man, Jack)

Thin_Man

- 1 (mneme)

Not Voting

- 4 (Jdodge, schismatized, Rishi, Setael)

[Rishi]

I'll post once I've had a chance to read the thread - probably tomorrow.

Well, Setael, you've stepped into an awkward situation. But there's a lot of people waiting to hear what you have to say.

[mneme]

re Dylan (and now Setael): I do think he's scummy (and was therefore wiling to vote for him) -- but the info we got from dylan was pretty vague. The self-conciousness thing is interesting, but I wasn't taking it into account.

Re rishi vs Tall_man: there are other reasons not to shift your vote than trying to avoid accusation of vote hopping -- specifically, the reasons you want to avoid vote hopping in the first place. Among other things, if you don't leave a vote on long enough to make an impression, you don't really get much info.

Rishi: yes, I get that you're a guy. But it's a name that codes as "female" in my head and we were discussing a specific quote.

And since it bothers people...

unvote
vote: Rishi

Setael, anything to say for yourself?

[Setael]

Rishi, I'll consider that a welcome.

Correct me if I've missed any, but it looks like the reasons that there are votes on Dylan are:
1) He was hesitant to take SSF to L-1
2) He has played badly in other games
3) He looked self-aware in posts 5-6

Not to echo Jack, but...

I don't think the evidence is so strong on dylan after all, I did some reading.

(Post 177)

I can understand why Jack didn't provide what he read that changed his mind. It makes sense to make Dylan defend himself rather than doing it for him. I don't know what Dylan would say if he were here, but I can give a pbpa on the swing from xyzzy and why I personally don't blame Dylan for being hesitant to vote SSF.

Post 93: Ms. Piggy votes SSF, gives vague "I don't like your posts" reason
Post 96: JDodge votes SSF, calls him out for being wary of suspicion
Post 97: Shanba votes SSF, sole reason "This wagon needs more support."
Post 117: Rishi votes SSF, says he seems unnecessarily worried about possible deadlines
Post 124: Ms. Piggy unvotes SSF says she "would rather vote Xyzzy than anyone else right now."
Post 125: Mneme votes SSF, sole reason is to avoid lynching Xyzzy
Post 127: schismatized votes SSF, sole reason is he doesn't think anyone is buying the deadline excuse

Post 143: Dylan's hesitation that everyone jumped on

Post 144: schismatized effectively pressures Dylan into voting
Post 145: Dylan votes
Post 150: Ms. Piggy hammers without giving any reason. In fact, not long before she'd said she'd much rather vote Xyzzy, and then she more recently was suspecting schismatized and Rishi.

So basically, I don't blame hesitation, considering only a few of the people who voted for SSF had a decent reason to be jumping on that wagon.

As for #2, I can't defend that but it seems it only came up because Dylan wasn't around so the only thing that could be attacked was his play in other games. #3 is funny because that's a lof of why SSF got lynched and he was Town.

I am surprised that once SSF came up town, no one bothered to look back at xyzzx, considering so many people seemed to REALLY think he was scum before the swing. I think there's a good chance at least one mafia was influential in pulling the vote off xyzzx, and then in spite of all these reasons they cited for thinking xyzzx was scum, never taking the discussion back to him.

Looking at the swing voters, I think Shanba looks the scummiest. He was the second to vote xyzzx which is nice and safe, but then as soon as other people are agreeing that xyzzx looks really scummy, Shanba eases off his vote. Attention is smoothly diverted toward SSF and and I can see a very relieved Shanba posting his SSF vote in 97 (with no reason, mind you).

Second prize goes to schismatized for looking almost as scummy as Shanba

Post 110-

I think that wagon got a lot of info from xyzzy. If someone had to die right now, it would be him. Its much to early for that so i am going to unvote vote: Mert.

Much too early for xyzzy to die, and yet only a few posts later it's not too early for SSF to die? Also, schismatized never gave us this "a lot of info" that was gleaned from xyzzy's wagon, and hasn't bothered to ever give it actually, or bring suspicion back to xyzzy. Super scummy imo.

The rest of the swingers don't seem quite as scummy to me, though none of them really look Town either if you look at that wagon. I'd like every one of the swingers to explain to me why they never tried to bring the vote back to xyzzy when they were so SURE xyzzy was scum.

As for the rest of the thread:

I thought this in Post 164 looked contrived:

Mert seems pro town, calling for a claim that early seems bold for scum. Oh wait he died so this is right.

Rather than echoing Patrick on this point, I'll just say that when it comes to that hammer, I agreed with this in Post 169:

It's easy for you to just say, "Oh it was obviously a noob mistake". Obviously the whole reason I pointed it out was because I thought it would be slightly more likely coming from noobscum than noobtown. Not going to lynch you over that but I see no reason to just ignore it.

I think it's a lot more likely for a new player to hammer in that case if they were scum than if they were town.

I also, however, agree with Rishi in Post 187:

It makes a difference that it was in twilight because we didn't know the result yet. Only Mafia would have known for sure that somestrangeflea was a townie.

I think Patrick was more likely to voice his frustration about the hammer with a knowledge that SSF was town. He said posts in Twilight have been allowed in his other games, but I don't think they've been allowed in any games I've been in. Which is more common?

I need to go back and read the last few pages more closely before I can really comment on Thin Man at all.

[Patrick]

Just a quick post for now about the twilight thing.

I think Patrick was more likely to voice his frustration about the hammer with a knowledge that SSF was town. He said posts in Twilight have been allowed in his other games, but I don't think they've been allowed in any games I've been in. Which is more common?

I don't see what's a big deal here. I was frustrated because we'd lynched early and based on not much that I could see. Also, I'm allergic to lynching without a claim because it's terrible play. As for posting in twilight, I don't think I can remember a game I've played in before this where it wasn't allowed. And I've played in over 30. Maybe the games I've played in have been a series of anomalies (shrug).

[Rishi]

I don't see what's a big deal here. I was frustrated because we'd lynched early and based on not much that I could see. Also, I'm allergic to lynching without a claim because it's terrible play. As for posting in twilight, I don't think I can remember a game I've played in before this where it wasn't allowed. And I've played in over 30. Maybe the games I've played in have been a series of anomalies (shrug).

You've played in over 30 games where posting was allowed in twilight and you don't understand why you're being criticized for it? It's a common argument in games I've seen.

[Patrick]

I can't remember off the top of my head someone making an argument against someone based off posting in twilight.

[Rishi]

Rishi: yes, I get that you're a guy. But it's a name that codes as "female" in my head and we were discussing a specific quote.

I don't know how I missed this before.

But Rishi is my real name, so I'm a little taken aback by that statement. This has nothing to do with the game, however.

[mneme]

Rishi: Typically, in Romance languages (which English is, sort of), names ending in vowels are female. Not a constant, obviously, but takes wrapping one's head around when one encounters an exception, particulary one not using a final "Y". I'll try not to make that particular mistake again, though discussing quotes is an obvious exception.

Posting in twilight isn't necessary scummy (though it is verbotten in this game). It can be seen as a post for appearance's sake only, however, seeing as it doesn't influence the voting compared to the next day's vote (and things for appearance's sake are, of course, scummy by default).

Patrick, any reason you made that post but then backed off on Ms. Piggy/Jack today?

[Rishi]

Rishi: Typically, in Romance languages (which English is, sort of), names ending in vowels are female. Not a constant, obviously, but takes wrapping one's head around when one encounters an exception, particulary one not using a final "Y". I'll try not to make that particular mistake again, though discussing quotes is an obvious exception.

No worries. End of discussion about this.

Patrick, any reason you made that post but then backed off on Ms. Piggy/Jack today?

Interesting point. Patrick?

Also, to all of the people who were waiting for dylan's replacement, I think you can speak up now. I had completely forgotten that some of these people were in the game.

[Setael]

Mod: Can you please prod schismatized and Shanba?

I would very much like to hear their response to my post (255).

[Shanba]

I would love to, but I'm not sure what you want me to respond to. You seem to think my vote on flea was scummy, which is a common theme I'm hearing, but there's not much I can say to that. You seem to think that I'm scum with xyzzy, though you never mention why you think he's scum, only that you didn't like the way I took my vote off him. I can actually respond to that, as my opinion on his play this game was mediated by seeing him play oddly as town in the game I am modding (in which he is now dead), so I thought that the case against wasn't very strong.

I'm happy you're adding more content than your predecessor, but I still prefer a you lynch to an anyone else lynch, with the perhaps exception of mneme. Rishi's Patrick case is not appealing to me, and though I can see Rishi as scum I've recently decided than focusing on more than one target at a time is a good way to get distracted.

[Thesp]

Mod: Can you please prod schismatized and Shanba?

I would very much like to hear their response to my post (255).

Schismatized is being replaced - I have a couple of PMs out now.

[Patrick]

Patrick, any reason you made that post but then backed off on Ms. Piggy/Jack today?

Decent question, mainly I haven't really a got a scumvibe from Jack and his play seems reasonably like how I've seen him play as town in previous games. The point is still there of course, but I don't really have any other complaints.

[mneme]

...

Did people forget about this game during Friday/The weekend?

[Rishi]

Well, I think we're going to need some

PRODS

The following people have not posted in a while:

JDodge - Last post August 24
xyzzy - Last post August 26
Thin_Man - Last post August 29
Jack - Last post September 1

schismatized also hasn't posted in a while, but Thesp is searching for a replacement.

[JDodge]

I am lurking. Discuss.

[Rishi]

I am lurking. Discuss.

Typical JDodge.

I do have a question, which I doubt will get answered, but here goes...

JDodge, in your previous post, you stated you were waiting for dylan or dylan's replacement. Well, Setael is here. Any thoughts?

(JDodge will now answer, "No.")

[JDodge]

I am lurking. Discuss.

Typical JDodge.

I do have a question, which I doubt will get answered, but here goes...

JDodge, in your previous post, you stated you were waiting for dylan or dylan's replacement. Well, Setael is here. Any thoughts?

(JDodge will now answer, "No.")

He analyzed himself. That's

really, really "useful"

.

[Setael]

I don't know what to think of Shanba's reasons for pulling his vote off xyzzy and not bringing him up again. Could be legitimate, could be just an excuse. Now shizmatized is being replaced and won't be able to explain his reasons. I was the most suspicious of those 2, but I'd also like to hear from the others - Ms. Piggy was replaced, but JDodge, Rishi and Mneme could all give their reasons.

Post 93: Ms. Piggy votes SSF, gives vague "I don't like your posts" reason
Post 96: JDodge votes SSF, calls him out for being wary of suspicion
Post 97: Shanba votes SSF, sole reason "This wagon needs more support."
Post 117: Rishi votes SSF, says he seems unnecessarily worried about possible deadlines
Post 124: Ms. Piggy unvotes SSF says she "would rather vote Xyzzy than anyone else right now."
Post 125: Mneme votes SSF, sole reason is to avoid lynching Xyzzy
Post 127: schismatized votes SSF, sole reason is he doesn't think anyone is buying the deadline excuse
Post 143: Dylan's hesitation that everyone jumped on
Post 144: schismatized effectively pressures Dylan into voting
Post 145: Dylan votes
Post 150: Ms. Piggy hammers without giving any reason. In fact, not long before she'd said she'd much rather vote Xyzzy, and then she more recently was suspecting schismatized and Rishi.

Both Jack and schismatized's replacements can't be expected to explain their predecessor's actions, but that doesn't clear their role completely. Ms. Piggy's hammer was quite scummy. Bottom line is, there was a strong following for Xyzzy's wagon and I think if he's Town scum could've seen to it he got lynched. Instead, the vote was pulled off him and none of those who changed their vote to SSF gave a decent reason.

[Rishi]

I don't know what to think of Shanba's reasons for pulling his vote off xyzzy and not bringing him up again. Could be legitimate, could be just an excuse. Now shizmatized is being replaced and won't be able to explain his reasons. I was the most suspicious of those 2, but I'd also like to hear from the others - Ms. Piggy was replaced, but JDodge, Rishi and Mneme could all give their reasons.

I never voted for xyzzy and never really suspected him. So, no explanation necessary.

[xyzzy]

I am lurking. Discuss.

Heh.

I'm a little suspicious of JDodge, simply because he's usually active as town. But I've been wrong before.... *ahem*

[Thesp]

Prods sent to Shanba, Thin_Man and Jack.