Mini 1729 - History Mafia II END

[Sir Bastion]

Well if you did something...

[Scorpious]

Well if you did something...

When I do..It is called scummy right away..by you..and others

Never seen someone catch so much flak for a damn read list.. like I said. Do what you want..

[Spiffeh]

Scorpious what are your thoughts on Ari and EP?

[Scorpious]

Scorpious what are your thoughts on Ari and EP?

IDK about Ari. I've made the mistake of reading inactivity as scummy before,but there isn't much to go on there. couple posts about sorting out and preparing us for it but nothing ever came of it.. I don't have much to go either way on that..

(at work..EP next)

[Scorpious]

My question to Rory:It was the fact that Bellaphant's 176 is equivalent to Aristo except for the fact that Aristo thinks KT is more likely to be the S in TvS.I personally don't think that Aristo's added suspicion on KT makes a difference in Rory's train of thought. Using Rory's train of thought, it should be just as logical to vote Bella on being interested in the DW/KT wagon and thinking it's TvS. I don't see the consistency between his logic and the players he questions.VOTE: RoryI dislike voting someone that I can't scumread (seeing as Rory hasn't actually responded to any of my points) but, as Spiffeh points out, it's better than an RVS vote.

This bothers me..

They had a question for Rory,and then seemingly answered it for him,then voted him.. Then said they dislike doing it? Seems off.

[Dwlee99]

It's apparent that no matter what I do,it's going to be twisted to look as scummy.

Just take note of the ones pushing it,so when I flip you have a solid base for Day 2..

OMGUS????

[Scorpious]

It's apparent that no matter what I do,it's going to be twisted to look as scummy.

Just take note of the ones pushing it,so when I flip you have a solid base for Day 2..

OMGUS????

what the hell are you talking about?

[Errantparabola]

I have to deal with children..

Then the adults can't think for themselves.. You guys are supposed to be good at this..

I'm VT

Do what you want.. :/

You could at least try to respond to what people are saying about you, no?
I dont necessarily think the reads list is scummy, i think it doesnt go eitherway.

[Scorpious]

I have to deal with children..

Then the adults can't think for themselves.. You guys are supposed to be good at this..

I'm VT

Do what you want.. :/

You could at least try to respond to what people are saying about you, no?
I dont necessarily think the reads list is scummy, i think it doesnt go eitherway.

where haven't I?

[Errantparabola]

Bastions points. Ill also respond to your points about me on rory in a few hours.

[KTthecreeper]

I have to deal with children..

Then the adults can't think for themselves.. You guys are supposed to be good at this..

I'm VT

Do what you want.. :/

this post makes me think he is scum the post beacuse first off hes saying that the people under 18 shouldn't be listened to at all *think about it* and hes saying that the people over 18 are not doing anything themselfs so let me see he yells at people for being immature and hes seperated people under 18 from the rest of the people and he is litterly the most inmature person here like think about it hes been yelling at people with a temper all game is that something a townie would generaly do? now i want you guys to ask youselfs is this type of gameplay a town play?

[KTthecreeper]

I have to deal with children..

Then the adults can't think for themselves.. You guys are supposed to be good at this..

I'm VT

Do what you want.. :/

You could at least try to respond to what people are saying about you, no?
I dont necessarily think the reads list is scummy, i think it doesnt go eitherway.

where haven't I?

hmm the like 4 dwlee/KT post you openly ignored

[Scorpious]

Right now? Well I'm waiting for creeper to stop picking at scorpious like a rampant woodpecker to see what he does with a bit of room.

Scorpious is clearly goading creeper to continue picking at him

Which is it?

[Scorpious]

I have to deal with children..

Then the adults can't think for themselves.. You guys are supposed to be good at this..

I'm VT

Do what you want.. :/

You could at least try to respond to what people are saying about you, no?
I dont necessarily think the reads list is scummy, i think it doesnt go eitherway.

where haven't I?

hmm the like 4 dwlee/KT post you openly ignored

I've addressed it 7 ways from Sunday.. I'm ignoring you now..

[KTthecreeper]

I have to deal with children..

Then the adults can't think for themselves.. You guys are supposed to be good at this..

I'm VT

Do what you want.. :/

You could at least try to respond to what people are saying about you, no?
I dont necessarily think the reads list is scummy, i think it doesnt go eitherway.

where haven't I?

hmm the like 4 dwlee/KT post you openly ignored

I've addressed it 7 ways from Sunday.. I'm ignoring you now..

ok ignoreing me isn't helping you in any way shape or form

[Scorpious]

@EP

Explain to me why Bastion has devoted entire wall posts to me being scum.. And they seemed to get longer as I become a more viable candidate. Again. When I flip.. Just note the effort he put into lynching a Vanilla..

[KTthecreeper]

@EP

Explain to me why Bastion has devoted entire wall posts to me being scum.. And they seemed to get longer as I become a more viable candidate. Again. When I flip.. Just note the effort he put into lynching a Vanilla..

isn't the most common scum fakeclaim VT early game or counter claim in MYLO/LYLO

[Sir Bastion]

In response to 512

You have a habit of ignoring context. You didthsi too the last rare occasion you tried to gotcha post.

Post 1 was at a point creeper wouldn't shut up while you were active posting

Post 2 was my deduction based on the observation of when creeper went away you did too...which came after post 1. I wanted to talk to you. I wanted to see you put forward a case or an idea or observation. But every post you made was either excusing yourself or getting into irrelevant bickers with creeper. Creeper shuts up and so did you. You may see I made a post of disbelief after the vc because it was clear despite creeper shutting up you had nothing to say.

Which leads to revaluations and the notion that you were using creeper as a skirt. You got into lengthy pointless disputes with him to give the illusion of activity



As for the length of my posts getting longer it's because the intent has changed. Early posts was flagging with notice. I said I didn't like certain things I watched to see if you contested my observation or improved your play or honestly showed simple effort.

But after page 18 this is no longer flagging. This is no longer for you its for the rest of the game to prsent to other players the case of you and creeper and ask why we're you letting that line of posting why you haven't acted in response to the drival by means that would have ended it. Why does it read like a pantomine and ask them...do you think there is scum intent behind these actions?

[Errantparabola]

My question to Rory:It was the fact that Bellaphant's 176 is equivalent to Aristo except for the fact that Aristo thinks KT is more likely to be the S in TvS.I personally don't think that Aristo's added suspicion on KT makes a difference in Rory's train of thought. Using Rory's train of thought, it should be just as logical to vote Bella on being interested in the DW/KT wagon and thinking it's TvS. I don't see the consistency between his logic and the players he questions.VOTE: RoryI dislike voting someone that I can't scumread (seeing as Rory hasn't actually responded to any of my points) but, as Spiffeh points out, it's better than an RVS vote.

This bothers me..

They had a question for Rory,and then seemingly answered it for him,then voted him.. Then said they dislike doing it? Seems off.

The reason i dont want to vote him that much is because he hadnt had a chance to respond. Who knows, he might have a good train of thought that convinces me. But as spiffeh points out, its better than an rvs vote and puts pressure on him to actually answer the question. Also i dont think i answered the question for him.

[BeardedCat]

I'm actually finding myself agreeing with the kidlet. Scorp, it feels like you're not really scumreading KT and dwlee, you're annoyingreading them. You think they're annoying and you're equating that with them being scum. It feels like it's more of a policy lynch on your part than anything. Being annoying doesn't preclude someone from being scum; I tried to get my buddy policy lynched in mini 1675 because I found her annoying and I've seen other annoying people flip scum before, but annoying people tend to be annoying in every game they play in, even when they're town.

I don't think posting a reads list is that big of a sin; I did it myself on the very page my hydra partner complained about readslists, after all. I think that town or scum, it gives us information that we can use, either right now to sort you or after you're dead when we're looking for your partners if you flip scum, or if you're town if you're lynched or nightkilled then we can consider your reads anyway.

I just went and looked at my readslist and I'm trying to figure out why nobody's complained about mine when everyone's jumped on yours and it's hard for me to critique my own readslist because I wrote it, but I guess people have left me alone for it because I have more townreads than you do and I've taken a stance on most of them, even the people that are null for me.

What stands out the most is that you're null on 9 slots and you're not taking active steps to reduce that number. All that yellow is concerning. If you're truly null on all 9 of these, that means you don't have something to say about them, so you wrote a big post to say that you didn't have anything to say. That's scummy.

Anyway, I saw you get backed into a corner in a bad way in our last game when I was your IC and I'm seeing some parallels to that where you got into this rut of negativity and didn't know how to get out of it even though you were town there, so I'm going to try to engage you about this readslist and see if we can get something alignment indicative out of this.

Aristophones

-nulish here. Not much here. quiet. Most posts about the sex nonsense. few about the game.Still waiting on "sorting".

Can you think of any questions to ask Aristophanes that would help you sort him?

Beardedcat

- I hate reading hydras but this slot has been the most aggressive scum-hunting slot so far. Town lean

I am honoured to be your sole townread. Reading hydrae is a learned skill but in our case you have a little advantage because you've played with me (Plotinus) before, so one of us isn't a stranger to you and you can think about how I'm the same as last time and how I'm different and work out how much of that is playstyle and how much of that is alignment.

A hydra lets you have two chances at reading us and even if we disagree on stuff we're still both responsible for our slot's behaviour. I have some scumtells that I use for sorting hydra but since they're a list of things that I think are objectively scummy for hydra to do, I'm unlikely to do them as any alignment, which won't help you, so I guess you'll hear about it if COTW does something suspicious, otherwise hit me up post game. (Listing them now will just give COTW a roadmap of things to avoid doing in front of me.)

Bella

-Played with before.seems like their style.quick blasts.. I also agree with the assessment of KT/DW just looking off.null

Again, what can you do to change Bella from a null read into a scum-or-town read that you're confident in? You agree with her about something. Do you think the stance she's taken on KT/DW is a stance she's more likely to take as town or scum?

COTW

- Again,Hydra. I have trouble reading one person in a slot.let alone two. Two highly skilled players that could be super useful as town,or uber-dangerous as scum..null

What do you think of the way COTW is interacting with the other experienced player slots? What do you think of their approach to the newer players?

DW

-Trollish from the beginning.not scum hunting at all. Why the vote on me? no explanation? is it because I find you suspicious?Scum lean..Still have no idea what" rebuttal" I didn't answer..

KT

-I have to waste my time deciphering if this is just some kid being immature,or if he is awkward because he was handed a scum role and has no idea how to handle it. I despise his interactions with DW. I feel one if not both of them are scum..

I reordered these to put them together since you're viewing them as a unit and interacting with them as a unit. Your description here is part of why I think you're just annoyed with the two youngsters. Immaturity is probably going to come with the territory. If they're scum, we should lynch them. I feel like you're focusing too much on their ages though. They had a big fight in thread and now I think they've come through to the other side and are townreading each other. How has this development affected your reads on their slots?

EP

- 4 posts..three of which are "I don't get it.." could be lurking..nullish scum read that could easily be erased with some worthy content.

She's recently started posting more. How do you feel about her efforts?

Gummy

- wordy yes,but some good points. The only thing that piques me here is the defense of KT.Not sure which way that will go.null here..

This null feels different than the others. Am I correct in that you don't have a "he hasn't done enough" read on him, but rather you're sort of townreading parts of him and scumreading other parts of him? Is it mostly preflip associatives with KT that are holding you back from townreading him? Which points of his were good? Are there any points that were mostly good but you disagreed with a part of them?

Metal Sonic

- Useless? Yes.. Scum? Not convinced. I might just be hesitant to call him scum because I have looked at this posting style in the past as scum and have been wrong. nullish town,but admittedly might be gunshy here..

He's starting to settle in a bit now. What do you think of his efforts in that direction?

Rory

- played with before as scum.. One of the few I can base a porper meta on. Null until I see more..

Compare and contrast Rory's behaviour in this game so far with our previous one.

Sir Bastion

-not feeling the immediate jump to me as soon as I started to be questioned by others. Could be an experienced scum looking to park.. null scum lean

This is a good point. What do you think of the rest of his posts?

Spiffeh

- hasn't done much..nothing to really pull on at all here. null

He's done more since then. What do you think of him now?



I've had some success with trying to coach newer players into playing better in the past (particularly in n1603), and some failures (on my part, in open 607, I confbiased and missed some towntells in the newbie's response to my coaching), but I'm hopeful that if we goad the newer players into displaying some depth of thought they'll either be unable to because it's hard being scum when you're new, or they'll towntell, or they'll give their buddies away, or something.

pedit: wow this is a really long post and i am sorry about that but I don't know how to make it shorter.

--P

[Errantparabola]

Has your own reads list changed at all, plot?

[Errantparabola]

@EP

Explain to me why Bastion has devoted entire wall posts to me being scum.. And they seemed to get longer as I become a more viable candidate. Again. When I flip.. Just note the effort he put into lynching a Vanilla..

isn't the most common scum fakeclaim VT early game or counter claim in MYLO/LYLO

True, but i dont think that the vanilla claim is scummy, simply because a lot of people are going to he vanilla.

[BeardedCat]

Has your own reads list changed at all, plot?

Off the top of my head, not as much as I'd like it to have changed but I'm going to make some rice and reread the last 6 pages since I wrote my readslist and I'll get back to you.

--P

[Scorpious]

@ plot

Thank you. I think you just taught me why I get myself into these situations.. No sarcasm..No snark here,being real. I don't want to suck at MAfia forever..

That one post I think will help my game immensely. And of course I am going to address it,just wanted to say that..

[Metal Sonic]

Remember that Plotinus is capable of walls regardless of alignment