Mini 1729 - History Mafia II END

[Dwlee99]

I've got the fact that Scorpious refuses to actually interact with us at all because we're "trolling".
He lashed out at KT and no one else for saying he was lurking so he might be trying to have all his posts towards KT to active lurk in a way.

[Call of the Wild]

Sorry, I'm in a bad mood and it isn't your fault or anyone's. I actually do not like Scorpius's behavior this game as it seems he just wants to fight with you and KT and it doesn't really do anything to advance the game. I am truly sorry for any personal issues and I can even understand lashing out about it. But he's spent a good part of this game arguing with you two and it's pointless unless he's pushing one of you as scum or vice versa. I guess it can help us read the rest of you but I'm pretty much thinking you and KT are town. I'm not quite sure on Scorpius yet though.

~SW

[Dwlee99]

He's pushing KT as scum. And KT and I are pushing him as scum.

[Spiffeh]

Plot's posts are still pinging the fuck out of me

[Call of the Wild]

Plot's posts are still pinging the fuck out of me

I want to know why you are doing that to me though. You didn't last game. You were obvtown to me almost right away, it was so obvious you were town. Here, not so much yet. I'll reread you though tonight like I said now that I'm less irritable and ready to rip someone's head off for no reason.

~SW

[Spiffeh]

SW I promise you that I am not always so obvtown when I am town.

It is unfortunate but true.

[Call of the Wild]

Wall of Spiffeh fun.

Spoiler:

Call of the Wild said that Bella's entrance looked awkward.
Bearded, as someone who's hydraed with bella what do you think

EW

VOTE: ErrantParabola

bbl

"Hi let me look like I'm contributing by asking a question that probably doesn't add anything relevant"

It's a filler question. Like I don't even think someone who hydra'd with someone before would be able to determine a bad entrance post compared to any other player?

This vote is gross. There is no reason for it. His question was perfectly fine.

SW what if he was 11 would that change your mind?

Why does his age matter? This still bugs me. He could be 11 and scum, why can't I pressure him? Classic WKing.

Anyway KT looks like exactly the type of player scum would push to mislynch imo

More of the same.

SW you can't seriously want to lynch this guy

More of the same.

Spiffeh you don't want ari lynched or you want errant under pressure more?

Errant under pressure more. I don't particularly mind Aristophanes lynched at this point in time.

Here comes a scumread on Ari. Where did that come from? Did I miss it? I don't see it before this.

SW do you know why Titus is scumreading me?

Also could you tell her she is wrong?

This is like waaaaay too much concern about Titus suspecting you.

That was more to read you. I would have been soops suspicious of you if you kept your vote on him after it was clearly his age and experience that was turning everyone off.

And I'd do it again.

Yeah again, you didn't allow me to investigate him so I could find out for myself if he was town or scum. You got in the way for no good reason. He was in no danger of a lynch at this time anyway.

Also SW what do you think of my reads?

I get this question. tbh your 371 is a pretty townie post that I am going to give you credit for because I like it.

TITUS WHY ARE YOU SCUM READING ME?

Btw Plotinus' posts give me twinge my scumdar but I BBT sounded town so I'm conflicted. I really don't like Plot's justification for catapulting me up to a town read.

Again, super concerned about being scumread by Titus. Shows irrational worry about this. Now suddenly BC is suspicious. Here we go again.

Also I will be honest and admit that I didn't read all of Plotinus' posts

I'll do it now and post more in depth about it.

This is upon us asking to join the wagon. I'd expect town to do this first before voting. I get that we asked you to so that does have some merit so I'm so-so on this.

Gdi fine my EP vote isn't doing anything anyway BECAUSE EVERYONE IS IGNORING HIM

VOTE: BeardedCat

Switches to BC while whining about us not paying attention to who he was voting before but saying nothing about his own suspicions of BC if he had them.

VOTE: Aristophanes

ftr I think Scorpious should be the ultimate lynch atm

Then not too long after that, he does this vote. Ari was mentioned as playing elsewhere but he jumped on this like a cat seeing a flopping fish and never says why he thinks Ari is scum outside of being inactive. BUT, Scorpius now needs to be the final lynch. Where did he say Scorpius was a scumread also in addition to Ari, BC, and earlier Errant-did he ever say why Errant was no longer a scumread? I'm having trouble follwing the thought process here and that worries me a bit.

Reading ish

Even if I'm difficult to read I'll be easy enough to sort in the late game so people shouldn't worry so much on day 1. It's premature. But I understand it because Sonic townread me all game, so he's paranoid of me now. Titus modded it.

This implies that you think MS is town, as you're saying he is paranoid of you being scum. But you vote for him later in the same post.

Your vote is really weak. Even if he was wrong about BBT ignoring the game (I don't think it's such an incorrect statement) why do you automatically assume he was lying and not give him the benefit of the doubt? This looks like OMGUS disguised as a reason to me. I think you're panicking

Ugh SW your jump on Sonic is almost as bad tbh

KT why did you jump off Scorpious? You seemed extremely convinced that he was scum last time you posted.

Aristo and Scorpious are MIA rn so in an effort to put my vote somewhere that it doesn't go to waste I'll VOTE: BeardedCat

Ew when did Scorpious get down to only one vote on him.

I still want to know why KT dropped that read so quickly.

Yes and I think he tried to lurk the suspicion off of him and he was successful.

Good lord, look how many people Spiffeh casts suspicion on here? First, it's BC for his Sonic vote. Then it's us for ours. Then it's KT for jumping off Scorpius. Then he decides his scumread on Ari can wait cuz he's not here which is fair actually. Then complains about Scorpius again and says he' lurking off suspicion.

So let me get this straight, Spiffeh is suspicious of:

-BC

-US

-idk what happened with Errant but I think at one time he changed this to a townread which is fair so I'll drop it

-Ari

-KT-I think? Not sure on this one.

-Scorpius

Also Spiffeh, I did find your reasons for suspecting Scorpius. While I have trouble with his picking at KT and dwlee, you seem to think that no one is allowed to scumhunt KT because of his age or they are suspicious. Makes no sense.

Also, the minute I started suspecting you, you insinuated I might be scum for not automatically reading your reasons for your votes and assuming you are town.

Spiffeh-do you get why I have major problems with this? Please help me feel better about you.

TIA

~SW

[Dwlee99]

Can't see spoiler from phone. *cries*

[Errantparabola]

Hey Tony. I think it would be helpful to give a list of people that you see as scummy/towny and why, whenever you manage to catch up.
I'm really mainly interested in what Rory has to say about my case and what Spiffeh has to say about the wall of fun.

[Spiffeh]

Spoiler: Response to CotW

This vote is gross. There is no reason for it. His question was perfectly fine.

Don't say there isn't a reason for it when you quoted the exact reason I gave. If you disagree with the reason (which is what I think you are saying), I get it's not some hardcore irrefutable evidence, but keep in mind that this was post 126. What exactly would constitute a vote that isn't gross? I can also point to your slot's vote at the time and how Titus gave no real reasoning for it. And your Bella point is a stretch. But I'm not going to call these things out because I read them all as efforts to get out of RVS and didn't take them super seriously enough to call them bad and suspect you for them. But you don't feel the same way about mine?

Why does his age matter? This still bugs me. He could be 11 and scum, why can't I pressure him? Classic WKing.

I responded to that in post 483. To be clear, I thought he was obv town and it looked like it was his immaturity (not in a bad way) that was turning people off. Nothing about him looked scummy to me and I still hold to that. I will defend my town reads, like I defended you in Delicious 2 when you were taking heat.

Here comes a scumread on Ari. Where did that come from? Did I miss it? I don't see it before this.

post 371

This is like waaaaay too much concern about Titus suspecting you.

Here is why: post 578

Yeah again, you didn't allow me to investigate him so I could find out for myself if he was town or scum. You got in the way for no good reason. He was in no danger of a lynch at this time anyway.

This is fair. I should have let your interaction run its course before I stepped in.

I get this question. tbh your 371 is a pretty townie post that I am going to give you credit for because I like it.

So you read my 371 thoroughly enough to make this determination but you didn't notice my scum read of Aristophanes?

Switches to BC while whining about us not paying attention to who he was voting before but saying nothing about his own suspicions of BC if he had them.

You quote my reason for suspecting BC in this exact post. Post 559

Then not too long after that, he does this vote. Ari was mentioned as playing elsewhere but he jumped on this like a cat seeing a flopping fish and never says why he thinks Ari is scum outside of being inactive. BUT, Scorpius now needs to be the final lynch. Where did he say Scorpius was a scumread also in addition to Ari, BC, and earlier Errant-did he ever say why Errant was no longer a scumread? I'm having trouble follwing the thought process here and that worries me a bit.

I'll quote my response to the first part that I had already written in response to you asking the same thing:

You also mentioned that you didn't like that I was voting for someone other than who I wanted to be lynched ultimately. And I don't even get why that's a problem. I voted for Aristophanes because you said he was active elsewhere on the site, figured he was still looking at the thread because of that, and voted for him so he'd see that he needed to actually contribute. I still voiced my support of the Scorpious wagon so it wouldn't lose traction (to no avail because KT and Dwlee swapped over to Aristophanes really quickly fsr). I'm not going to vote park on someone, even if I think they are the scummiest, if I think my vote will be of greater use or garner better reactions elsewhere.

Once again, I mention my scum read of Scorpious in post 371. Remember, the one that you liked?
No, I never said Errant was no longer a scum read until later on. But I think it's a little unreasonable to expect me to post about it in the thread every time a read changes. Anyway, I talk more about EP here.

Good lord, look how many people Spiffeh casts suspicion on here? First, it's BC for his Sonic vote. Then it's us for ours. Then it's KT for jumping off Scorpius. Then he decides his scumread on Ari can wait cuz he's not here which is fair actually. Then complains about Scorpius again and says he' lurking off suspicion.

So let me get this straight, Spiffeh is suspicious of:

-BC

-US

-idk what happened with Errant but I think at one time he changed this to a townread which is fair so I'll drop it

-Ari

-KT-I think? Not sure on this one.

-Scorpius

Also Spiffeh, I did find your reasons for suspecting Scorpius. While I have trouble with his picking at KT and dwlee, you seem to think that no one is allowed to scumhunt KT because of his age or they are suspicious. Makes no sense.

Also, the minute I started suspecting you, you insinuated I might be scum for not automatically reading your reasons for your votes and assuming you are town.

Oh come on now this is ridiculous. First of all, who cares how many people I am suspicious of? You think that makes me scummy? This is me scum hunting. I say what comes to my mind. You should know this from Delicious 2. And me asking KT a question does not mean I am casting suspicion on him.

I do not believe that KT should be exempt from scum hunting. I even do it myself as you pointed out. I agree with you that I shouldn't have interfered when you were interacting with him, but I don't think I have exhibited any other actions indicating that people should leave him alone, and nor should they.

And yes I was becoming a little worried about you because you ignored an entire post I had typed up that had addressed almost every single issue you expressed in the post I quoted.

tl;dr It's really hard to overlook how much I had to point you to when you said you were going to read me thoroughly. You're going into reading me with your mind already made up because I am not the spitting image of the last game we played together. Can you at least give some examples of differences you are seeing in my play from Delicious 2? I do understand why you'd be concerned about the KT situation, but that's all I'll give you. The rest of your points are reaches and could be reflections of your preconceptions of me. I think it should be clear from the rest of my actions what I have been doing and what my thought processes have been. So I don't know if that one moment early on scarred you or something, or if there's something more to it. You're attacking what you want to be there as opposed to the content I have been providing, and I can't tell if it's genuine paranoia or not.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

[Dwlee99]

Will respond to walls in 15 and a half hours.

[gummmybear]

Prod dodge. I'm liking Spiffeh and CoTW's exchange, making me feel better about how they are probing and trying to read each other. Haven't analysed both sides points thoroughly yet though. I'm honestly getting rather tired and burnt out reading BeardedCat, will try an attempt again over the weekend, possibly on Sunday when I'm more free.

Scorp, I'm sorry to hear about your mom and I hope things are okay. Please take care!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I never said that we had to compromise a lynch. I explained in my previous post that if I think my vote will serve a better purpose elsewhere I will vote there even if I would prefer someone else was lynched. No one was really considering my arguments against EP, your slot pinged me, Metal Sonic asked me to wagon you, so I voted for you. I am pretty surprised so many people have an issue with this.

I know you didn't say we had to compromise lynch, but that's how you're playing. I mean, it's a great way for scum to hop around and join any wagon they want because 'my vote was doing nothing on it's own.' That's bullshit. You have 14 days for a reason, if you think someone is scum, you should be pushing them and you should be showing conviction in your reads. As town. But you're not doing this. Because you're scum.

The only time you don't want to lynch your top scum read is when a compromise needs to be reached before deadline - hence why I called you out for your awful vote hopping.

Gummy, my gut is telling me scorp is town (and I explained about my not voting because of caution around sharing a wagon. MY head is telling me, though, that maybe he's struggling with dwlee/kt and that's affecting his play. He still seems awkward, though, and I'm lacking a clear progression of thought from him.

I'm prolly over cautious. Actually,
VOTE: scorp.

This whole read just confused me...are you scum reading Scorpious or not?

Be nice. I do mean that, but you also full well know it's a tactic outside multiball games, and you've proved to be good at it. The rest of your questions look townish, but why am I scummy?

I'm always nice but I can't help it if you rolled scum Bella. I still have to lynch you.

What I'm saying is, you're acting like you have never seen me do that as town. Have you ever seen me nitpick as town?

Spoiler: CotW

Is there questions for me somewhere or comments on what I'm said.

I'm tired and too lazy to check.

~SW

What was I talking about again anyway?

I forgot. Prolly time to prod dodge again.

~SW

Hell fucking no. You don't present a bullshit case on me and then walk away acting like it never existed when I counter it.

VOTE: CotW

[BeardedCat]

I never said that we had to compromise a lynch. I explained in my previous post that if I think my vote will serve a better purpose elsewhere I will vote there even if I would prefer someone else was lynched. No one was really considering my arguments against EP, your slot pinged me, Metal Sonic asked me to wagon you, so I voted for you. I am pretty surprised so many people have an issue with this.

I know you didn't say we had to compromise lynch, but that's how you're playing. I mean, it's a great way for scum to hop around and join any wagon they want because 'my vote was doing nothing on it's own.' That's bullshit. You have 14 days for a reason, if you think someone is scum, you should be pushing them and you should be showing conviction in your reads. As town. But you're not doing this. Because you're scum.

The only time you don't want to lynch your top scum read is when a compromise needs to be reached before deadline - hence why I called you out for your awful vote hopping.

Gummy, my gut is telling me scorp is town (and I explained about my not voting because of caution around sharing a wagon. MY head is telling me, though, that maybe he's struggling with dwlee/kt and that's affecting his play. He still seems awkward, though, and I'm lacking a clear progression of thought from him.

I'm prolly over cautious. Actually,
VOTE: scorp.

This whole read just confused me...are you scum reading Scorpious or not?

Be nice. I do mean that, but you also full well know it's a tactic outside multiball games, and you've proved to be good at it. The rest of your questions look townish, but why am I scummy?

I'm always nice but I can't help it if you rolled scum Bella. I still have to lynch you.

What I'm saying is, you're acting like you have never seen me do that as town. Have you ever seen me nitpick as town?

Spoiler: CotW

Is there questions for me somewhere or comments on what I'm said.

I'm tired and too lazy to check.

~SW

What was I talking about again anyway?

I forgot. Prolly time to prod dodge again.

~SW

Hell fucking no. You don't present a bullshit case on me and then walk away acting like it never existed when I counter it.

VOTE: CotW

I hate myself.

Apologies Mod.

[BeardedCat]

I am defending MS because Plot's vote on him was scummy and they are either completely misunderstanding what I thought was pretty clear or they are trying to misrepresent Sonic's ONE THROW-AWAY comment to justify voting for him which is what I'm leaning towards.

I'm not sure why you're trying to represent his comment as 'throw-away'. It wasn't a throw away comment, he was trying to gather support to push our wagon. That's not throw-away, it's pretty serious.

Hey fucktard,my mother had complications from a stroke and has been in ICU since Saturday..

Sorry but I need to comment on this. Can we keep things like this out of the thread? This is a game and there is no need for such personal information.

On the game side of things, comments like this will earn you town reads and I don't think that's fair to us as players to be influenced by such a post. I once had a player say his wife had left him, he had just lost his job and he was fighting for his kids and that's why he was lurking. He was scum and it was all untrue.

Please don't make posts like that.

~BBT

[Call of the Wild]

WTF are you talking about? That was the worst vote I've ever seen. You quoted me saying I was tired 2 days ago and voted us for walking away when I've been here posting and haven't gone anywhere. You don't have a question for us or a reason and you tell me I presented a BS case on you and walked away?

No, you presented one of the lamest votes ever with no reason and walked away. It's contradictory as hell. Plus, you called Spiffeh scum but are walking away from that to go after us for no reason. At the very least actually quote the posts you are talking about so I can address them.

Yeah, that vote was scummy. Really, really, scummy. Especially after you are getting after us and Spiffeh for our voting. Why do you keep calling Spiffeh scum but never voting him?

I will be back after work to really examine BC because now they have my full attention. This looks like scum to me.

[BeardedCat]

OK, I want everyone to take a look at the first few pages here and see BBT going after Grib for a supposed scum slip about his flavor. Hint-BBT was scum, Grib was town.

I'm going to stop you right here. If you're going to try and meta me, you had better do it correctly.

Recent game

Take a look at that game. I pinned someone's (PatientZer0) early reads-list as scummy and questioned Mollie because she was town reading it. Mollie and myself got into a 'pointless back and forth' for quite some time. I

pressed

(read: nit picked) Mollie about the reads-list and ultimately got distracted from it. I was town and Patient Zero was scum.

Another game; BBT caught scum from another reads-list and engaged in yet another 'pointless back and forth'

That is a very, very poor attempt to meta me SW. In summary, I nit pick ALL THE TIME. It's how I play, it's how I find scum. I find a small detail that nobody else noticed and I hone in on it until my read is finalised. I catch scum out for making shit reads-lists all the time - those two examples were just from the top of my head.

This makes me suspicious of Bella because she is trying to use this as reasoning to position herself to join my wagon when she knows full well exactly how I play. Hell, I'm pretty sure in our first game together I tunneled the shit out of her for something pretty small until I realised she was town.

You wanna try again SW?

~BBT

This was my response to your 'meta case'. You have been here and have been posting and have chosen not to respond to this.

This tells me your scum who got caught pushing a bad case.

[Call of the Wild]

Except we are not scum and you selectively quoted me and said I wasn't here when I was. You have not questioned us or done anything to try to figure us out.

So yeah, you are scummy. I am starting to get the reasons people have been suspicious of you. Plot sits back and posts all these wordy posts that no on really reads or likes and does pretty much nothing that resembles scumhunting at all. You come in and selectively quote us and throw down a vote while doing nothing to question us or try to figure us out. That's bad after saying you don't like the voting and after spending time calling others scum.

Like I said, you have my full attention now and I will be examining you very, very closely after work and if I don't like what I find, I will be going after you full steam.

You brought this on yourself.

~SW

[BeardedCat]

What you say you're not scum? Well shit, you must be town then right?

SW, I'll gladly 1v1 you and watch you eat rope.

Come at me.

I have not selectively quoted you. Show me where I have done this. I mean, you say you 'get the reasons' people are scum reading us but you're justifying this by using something that has only just happened right this second? Please, your upcoming OMGUS couldn't be more clear.

I have engaged with you plenty in an attempt to figure you out and I think I have done so. I feel I have been more than clear with the problems I have with your slot and why I'm scum reading you.

You presented a bad case on me. I responded to it. You returned to the thread acting 'lazy and tired' in an attempt to avoid responding to me because you had been caught pushing a bad case. You could quite easily have gone back and read what you missed, actually considering you were supposedly scum reading me, you should have been ACTIVELY looking for my response to your case so I call bullshit on your lazy and tired posts.

~BBT

[Call of the Wild]

Major misrep BBT. I did not justify the reasons others are scumreading you with that observation about you nitpicking things as scum. I brought up an observation that concerned me. You addressed it. I didn't have any further questions for you on that issue. You quoted me saying I was tired and said we walked away from you. That's an outright lie. You will not get us lynched so that's just bluster. You wanted my attention, you got it. If I had time to do it now, I would. I have caught out scum more than once for trying to push me with shit reasons. You also contradicted yourself by talking about others bad votes and make a really shitty one. You also have been pushing Spiffeh as scum but are ignoring that to come after us. No you really haven't laid out the reasons you have a problem with us. The last time you posted you listed MS, Spiffeh, and Bella. You also went after us for moving to MS and getting off gummy even though I explained why I did that but here you are getting off one of your scumreads and moving your vote to us.

I will be back later. If Titus is around, she can address this earlier but I gotta get to work.

~SW

[Dwlee99]

;OOO

I am gonna sit here, grab pretzels out of my backpack and watch this 1v1.

[Sir Bastion]

BC the bad case was the meta case right?

sorry I've been absent

but I honestly struggled with the whole COTW MS BC triangle so I am partially glad for the replacement as it might mean a bit of a clean slate to read from.


As for the scorpious KT and DW triangle I've gone through the whole one player using another as a shield and am just convinced it's a all a pantomine act and all 3 of them are the scum team together as I cannot fanthom any reason to let so much drama spill out into a game. Especially one where nothing is in real time.

Right now though I just want BC to confirm that the case he's talking about is the meta one or is there anothr bad sw case?

[Dwlee99]

LOL BASTION. You wish. So do I tbh, but nope hahahahahahahahahah.

[BeardedCat]

Major misrep BBT. I did not justify the reasons others are scumreading you with that observation about you nitpicking things as scum.

I didn't say that. You said this;

I am starting to get the reasons people have been suspicious of you. You come in and selectively quote us and throw down a vote while doing nothing to question us or try to figure us out. That's bad after saying you don't like the voting and after spending time calling others scum.

~SW

This means you can see how people are scum reading us (me) because of my 'selective quoting' and vote on you when it had ONLY JUST HAPPENED. So, yeah, that's exactly what you said.

I brought up an observation that concerned me. You addressed it. I didn't have any further questions for you on that issue.

You didn't even acknowledge my response. You tried to push a case for me being scum based on meta - a very poor case. In fact, you later stated that 'nothing has changed' in regards to your read;

I believe I already explained all my issues with BC in an early post. They haven't gone away.

This implies that you have seen my response and are not willing to reevaluate your read. That's scummy on two counts;

a) the meta case you originally pushed was awful and you quite clearly did not do your homework as my response shows

b) you didn't acknowledge my response. Nothing. To the rest of the thread, this implies you're still scum reading our slot and allows you to jump on our wagon if need be. If I hadn't called you out on it, no-one would be any the wiser. The fact you completely ignored my response to your case is scummy in it's own right.

You quoted me saying I was tired and said we walked away from you. That's an outright lie. You will not get us lynched so that's just bluster.

Stand back and watch me lynch you.

You did walk away. You had no response for my counter to your case - you got caught pushing a bad case and swiftly turned your attention to Spiffeh.

You also contradicted yourself by talking about others bad votes and make a really shitty one.

This is completely subjective - of course it's bad vote to you, you're caught scum. To me, it's a fucking fantastic vote and in no way contradicts my views of your awful voting this game. What a strange comment that is to make, you're trying to discredit me in any way possible.

You also have been pushing Spiffeh as scum but are ignoring that to come after us. No you really haven't laid out the reasons you have a problem with us.

You're right, I did think Spiffeh was scum but your hop on the wagon after trying to attack me is super, super scummy and I'm now much more comfortable voting for you.

I feel I have been more than clear with why you're scum. If anybody else thinks I haven't, I will address it.

PEdit - Yeah Bastion, it's the meta case.

~BBT

[Sir Bastion]

LOL BASTION. You wish. So do I tbh, but nope hahahahahahahahahah.

did I hit somewhere close to home?

you are laughing but there is a bead of sweat running down your cheek