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Post Post #2125 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:13 pm

Post by catboi »

skipping over reading zito for a moment due to sheer volume of posts, even though there's a lot of filler.

scotmany12:

Had a feeling that posts from SC I referenced earlier plausibly looked like crappy distancing - it was terribly random of him to name two players he "needed to take a look at", likely he had a purpose in mind when he named scot/flameaxe, I think he thought he was disassociating himself with them. Became suspicious of him when I saw CDB's posts so I fully admit I may be biased here in my reading.

Pile-on vote on SC in , questions SC about singling him out in but completely ignores the response from him in . Possible he considered it satisfactory, but it seems weird to cut off questioning of the person you're voting with that. Continues to go after him in , , but no further interactions. He spends a lot more time arguing with AJ in , , , . Some of that's surely activity-based, but even stylistically he's applying a lot more pressure to AJ where he just made sort of broad declarative statements about SCoug. Him asking "Why do you refuse to comment on the SC wagon then" really possibly looks like he's setting up AJ to be voted after an SC scum flip.

I don't find the unvote in to be telling just because at that point MattP had replaced in, and in context I can certainly see being suspicious of AJ as making sense. But there's maybe a worrying feeling I get reading this ISO where I'm not seeing a lot from scot that seems..original? insightful? Like how he sort of adds to the suspicion on davsto by just saying "you've been scummy" and that his vote is "awful". Also notable in that post is he sort of blandly dismisses mattp's flameaxe vote, doesn't make a statement toward a read on him. This is a hard statement to justify I realize, and it could be something I'm imagining but not a whole lot feels like real scumhunting.

As CDB pointed out, interactions with Matt in and are fairly calm for a slot he was scumreading earlier. I know that when I saw Matt's flameaxe case, I thought it sucked, and I was
suspicious
of him for making it - to go "I understand but disagree" seems weird.

As for his push on Davsto in , I can't really lie - I think town and scum would both have reason to push on Davsto at that point. I'm not sure how you'd tell them apart, because Davsto was largely useless. I am fairly confident now that Davsto's town, which means in all likelihood there's at least one scum pushing him.

Looking at itI don't like the statement in of "Town should defend themselves way more than that." because it feels like an excuse to lynch someone. I have no idea why someone's effort in defending themselves should be considered toward their alignment at all, scum are just as capable of defending themselves and town get unmotivated. It's kind of odd he claims "MattP's vote on AJ is awful." in that same post while saying he's okay with lynching AJ, doesn't really elaborate on a read there.

Never liked his suspicion of notscience, vote in looks not great, hard to understand why that's his go-to. Don't like the reasoning in , feels totally fair for notscience to ask a townread who to wagon and it feels like scot's trying to make something out of nothing.

No idea why he expresses disinterest in wagoning mykonian in . No mentions of him before that. Says Matt is a better vote in , no reasoning, no real commentary on him. notable he's gone davsto-AJ-notsci with the MattP wagon starting to build - (VC after this has notsci/Matt at 5-5)

Him swatting down my question to Zito () in kind of bugs me, especially as he's trying to justify lynching notscience when his strong scumread Davsto is on the wagon. Actually in both his case and Zito's, I don't like this. It's okay to be fine wagoning with a scumread, but to not react to it or comment on it strkes me as the action of someone who doesn't really care what their scumread is doing, which makes me wonder how real their read is.

Also he's pestering notsci about his vote on Matt in , which is possibly sort of an oblique defense.

He very quietly moves over to the MattP wagon in /, voting without actually explaining why. This looks plausibly like a bus. It's going along with the growing consensus, and doing it very quietly. The fact that he's gone into some detail on his othr votes but just sort of sheeps along on Matt is off. Then he's questioning spiffeh about second guessing in , despite never really having expressed much confidence in the lynch himself.

Now I'm at the end of day 1 and going long but this is someone who'd be my preference to vote today, depending on how reads of Zito/Reck go (unwilling to lynch starbuck even if I scumread her(from memory I don't) because mollie is town, will have to look at that later). Going to go a bit more on his day 2 stuff in another post.


I know a ton of this isn't going to get read but screw it, I had to thought dump.
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Post Post #2126 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:15 pm

Post by catboi »

In post 2123, pirate mollie wrote:see catboi uses more words than i do

mollie <3 catboi

but

y no vote.

I'm sort of slowly progressing in reading over the entire playerlist and I've been suspicious of scot/zito/reck but their names happen to be late in the dropdown ISO list. Fell behind my planned schedule of reading b/c I got distracted yesterday doing dumb non game related stuff
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Post Post #2127 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:57 pm

Post by catboi »

scot's pushback on CDB in really bugs me, rather than really addressing the points CDB made he starts attacking CDB about how his read on scot changed, because I guess someone changing their mind is freaky? In particular the line about "He didn't have a problem with this part of my post earlier, in fact, he like that entire post from me." just comes off as slightly inauthentic, there's no reason to assume him saying he liked the post meant he liked
every single detail
. Also, it's not like his read couldn't change - it's very likely he
wouldn't
remember scot pushing SC early in the game, ages before the second post was made, and would instead pick up on it during a reread. I don't find it to be at all an unreasonable thing.

But again, the fact that he pushes back here against CDB and attacks him rather than addressing the points he's making is really worrisome. I don't think that's a town response to pressure.

VOTE: scotmany12


too late to cover Zito in full tonight but something I noticed I've been holding on to is that when he was grilling Bins about following mattp's vote on flameaxe, he posts this:

In post 657, Papa Zito wrote:That's interesting. In that case why were you on a wagon (MattP) with both BBM and Reck?


But later in the thread, when he's voting notscience, we have this exchange:

In post 1302, catboi wrote:Hey Zito, still scumreading Davsto?

In post 1303, Papa Zito wrote:yeh that can be lynched or shot, either way

In post 1305, catboi wrote:But you're comfortable sharing the wagon with him, then?

In post 1306, Papa Zito wrote:Why wouldn't I be?
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Post Post #2128 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:20 am

Post by scotmany12 »

What a shocking surprise
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Post Post #2129 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:29 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

In post 2022, curiouskarmadog wrote:skimming

In post 2005, scotmany12 wrote:
In post 1939, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 1937, scotmany12 wrote:

@CKD: you mentioned yesterday that I had a good point about the "framing" issue surrounding AJ/SC/Spiff. Do still think so? Also, where did your spiff suspicion come from? Unless I missed something, that is new to me.


i will have to look at it again, time permitting. post number?

My whole exchange with AJ started at about post 201 and goes on for quite a few posts. Post 547, is the one you liked in your post 837. Note that AJ starts with the whole spiff connecting him/framing him with SC in his post 363.



will look at this soon. work as gotten busy (end of the month, writing reports). I should have time, tomorrow night to get caught up, post, and vote.


I reread this exchange this morning. What I find interesting about it (now) is that no one knew SC's alignment at the time. it also reminds me that Spiff thought AJ was scum yesterday, but said Esp's wagon is "terrible" today.

Spiff?

what changed?

shouldnt the scum flip of SC strengthen this?

(reading more). man the back and forth between Spiff and SC, makes spiff look town though. still curious though.
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Post Post #2130 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:40 am

Post by pirate mollie »

In post 2128, scotmany12 wrote:What a shocking surprise


and what exactly do you mean by this?
whew!
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Post Post #2131 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:41 am

Post by Porochaz »

The news of Ethans death spread on the news. His father was watching, they hadn't seen each other for at least at least a few years, but had recently connected over the phone. There was talk of seeing each other again soon. Now that would never happen...

Votecount 2.07


Davsto
(6): Spiffeh, Flameaxe, Bins, scotmany, zito, curiouskarmadog
Espeonage
(3): Starbuck, Davsto, pirate mollie
scotmany12
(2): ChannelDelibird, catboi
Starbuck
(1): Espeonage
ChannelDelibird
(1): notscience

Not Voting
(3): xRECKONERx, Nexus, mykonian,

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-11-08 19:00:00)

Espy was prodded.
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Post Post #2132 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:24 am

Post by scotmany12 »

In post 2125, catboi wrote:Had a feeling that posts from SC I referenced earlier plausibly looked like crappy distancing - it was terribly random of him to name two players he "needed to take a look at", likely he had a purpose in mind when he named scot/flameaxe, I think he thought he was disassociating himself with them. Became suspicious of him when I saw CDB's posts so I fully admit I may be biased here in my reading.

And what about the other three people? Do you not find it more suspicious that scum just left off a huge amount of people on his wagon? And why didn't you say this when I questioned you in the first place about that post? You had a suspicion of me since you quoted that post. Why didn't you say so when I questioned you about it?

Pile-on vote on SC in , questions SC about singling him out in but completely ignores the response from him in . Possible he considered it satisfactory, but it seems weird to cut off questioning of the person you're voting with that. Continues to go after him in , , but no further interactions.

I saw the response. Me not responding to it isn't me ignoring it. It didn't require a response. It was an unsatisfactory response from him. I still found him scummy, as you can tell from the other two posts I made.

He spends a lot more time arguing with AJ in , , , . Some of that's surely activity-based, but even stylistically he's applying a lot more pressure to AJ where he just made sort of broad declarative statements about SCoug. Him asking "Why do you refuse to comment on the SC wagon then" really possibly looks like he's setting up AJ to be voted after an SC scum flip.

AJ did refuse to comment on the SC wagon, so I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you having an issue with my pressure on AJ? How in my eyes he seemed to know SC's alignment, and if anyone was setting up a vote, it was AJ for his constant use of "framing" against spiffeh.

I don't find the unvote in to be telling just because at that point MattP had replaced in, and in context I can certainly see being suspicious of AJ as making sense. But there's maybe a worrying feeling I get reading this ISO where I'm not seeing a lot from scot that seems..original? insightful? Like how he sort of adds to the suspicion on davsto by just saying "you've been scummy" and that his vote is "awful". Also notable in that post is he sort of blandly dismisses mattp's flameaxe vote, doesn't make a statement toward a read on him. This is a hard statement to justify I realize, and it could be something I'm imagining but not a whole lot feels like real scumhunting.

My entire attack on AJ was original, no one brought up the point of "framing" before me. Also, I was still scumreading someone. I don't need to go around throwing out everyone of my reads. It's not going to happen. It gives scum to much information. But hey, I was voting for SC before, thought he was scummy. Then was cautious of his vote on flameaxe. Maybe that meant I was still scumreading the slot?

As CDB pointed out, interactions with Matt in and are fairly calm for a slot he was scumreading earlier. I know that when I saw Matt's flameaxe case, I thought it sucked, and I was
suspicious
of him for making it - to go "I understand but disagree" seems weird.

Was my whole interaction with AJ not calm? Is my entire interaction with davstro not calm now? Because I feel like it is. How is any of that weird? There isn't anything scummy about it, which is part of my problem with CDB's vote. And I was actually fine with his explanation for his vote. I just disagreed with it being scummy. That does not automatically mean I townread the slot.

Fully disagree that davstro is town. His overreaction is null. What isn't null is his inability to provide justification for more than one of his reads when asked. I also do think he slipped up in post 2062. Town shouldn't care if others think what they post is scummy. Not sure why you think my vote on him is bad, when you just said you understand why I would be suspicious of him in day 1. That suspicion hasn't just gone away.

Looking at itI don't like the statement in of "Town should defend themselves way more than that." because it feels like an excuse to lynch someone. I have no idea why someone's effort in defending themselves should be considered toward their alignment at all, scum are just as capable of defending themselves and town get unmotivated. It's kind of odd he claims "MattP's vote on AJ is awful." in that same post while saying he's okay with lynching AJ, doesn't really elaborate on a read there.

I disagree. I hardly ever find town getting unmotivated when attacked. I do find scum doing it though. I'm not allowed to have a problem with someone's vote even though they are voting for someone I think is scummy if I don't like the reasoning and or lack of? His reasoning in post 1039, was bad. It's what a lot of people are going back to. I'm just trying to figure out if he would bus or defend scum here. Very confidant one of Davsto/Espe is scum.

Never liked his suspicion of notscience, vote in looks not great, hard to understand why that's his go-to. Don't like the reasoning in , feels totally fair for notscience to ask a townread who to wagon and it feels like scot's trying to make something out of nothing.

NS wasn't asking who to wagon. He was specifically throwing out my name, expressing that he found me scummy, and asking if Mollie would vote me with her. He doesn't need Mollie's support to do so. His defense that he didn't want to start a vanity wagon did not work for me. Two votes instead of one wouldn't have changed that at the moment. And it's perfectly understandable why I would go to that wagon. The game was stalling, and a new wagon was needed to breathe fresh air into the game. And it worked.

No idea why he expresses disinterest in wagoning mykonian in . No mentions of him before that. Says Matt is a better vote in , no reasoning, no real commentary on him. notable he's gone davsto-AJ-notsci with the MattP wagon starting to build - (VC after this has notsci/Matt at 5-5)

Because I didn't think myk is scum? And I still don't. And it's almost like I still found the Matt slot suspicious like I did in the beginning of the day.

Him swatting down my question to Zito () in kind of bugs me, especially as he's trying to justify lynching notscience when his strong scumread Davsto is on the wagon. Actually in both his case and Zito's, I don't like this. It's okay to be fine wagoning with a scumread, but to not react to it or comment on it strkes me as the action of someone who doesn't really care what their scumread is doing, which makes me wonder how real their read is.

..............so we're scummy for not commenting on a vote from someone we find scummy? Okay then. Not everything deserves a response.

Also he's pestering notsci about his vote on Matt in , which is possibly sort of an oblique defense.

What?

He very quietly moves over to the MattP wagon in /, voting without actually explaining why. This looks plausibly like a bus. It's going along with the growing consensus, and doing it very quietly. The fact that he's gone into some detail on his othr votes but just sort of sheeps along on Matt is off. Then he's questioning spiffeh about second guessing in , despite never really having expressed much confidence in the lynch himself.

Matt did nothing during the day to dissuade me from my suspicions of SC. And yes, I wanted to know why spiffeh was second guessing himself. It seemed weird since the only thing that really happened was a VT claim, which shouldn't be enough.

So what points did CDB make? That he though one of me, you, and mollie are scum? His reason for voting for me comes down to him thinking I was bussing, and then not having enough paranoia. He picked two of my posts throughout my entire ISO, and simply said, oh hes bussing, oh he's not suspicious enough. That's not good reasoning. You're right in that CDB could have changed his mind, etc., and looking back in his initial reads post, he said he only skimmed. And he does say he will go back over when we get a flip. I had missed that. I still have a problem with his vote. I don't like his reasoning for me. There isn't much there. "This seems to be a post scum would make." Why? Why is me being calm an issue? I know he thinks one of the three he said is scum, but if that's the best he can come up with, maybe he should try hunting somewhere else. There are other interactions to go on. Cause it just looks like he's looking for a reasoning to think one of us is scum.

In post 2129, curiouskarmadog wrote:I reread this exchange this morning. What I find interesting about it (now) is that no one knew SC's alignment at the time. it also reminds me that Spiff thought AJ was scum yesterday, but said Esp's wagon is "terrible" today.

Spiff?

what changed?

shouldnt the scum flip of SC strengthen this?

(reading more). man the back and forth between Spiff and SC, makes spiff look town though. still curious though.

Yeah, it didn't make sense to me unless AJ knew SC would come up scum. Kind of like a preventive defense.

In post 2130, pirate mollie wrote:
In post 2128, scotmany12 wrote:What a shocking surprise


and what exactly do you mean by this?

Catboi voting for me isn't a surprise. I felt like he was slowly leading up to it through his posts. I was waiting for it with bated breath.
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Post Post #2133 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:39 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

mod, can you provide the time tracker please. not sure when the day ends.
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Post Post #2134 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:50 am

Post by Espeonage »

Ya sorry prodded, been having this on backburner. I think I still need to respond to the star case and comment on dav wagon as a todo list.
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Post Post #2135 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:11 am

Post by Papa Zito »

In post 2127, catboi wrote:when he was grilling Bins about following mattp's vote on flameaxe, he posts this:

In post 657, Papa Zito wrote:That's interesting. In that case why were you on a wagon (MattP) with both BBM and Reck?


But later in the thread, when he's voting notscience, we have this exchange:

Yes you sure did quote some things there.


I'm gonna start rereading things though I srsly doubt I'm moving off of Davsto. In a game that apparently doesn't have vigs, Davsto type lynches need to happen earlier rather than later.
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Post Post #2136 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:16 am

Post by Spiffeh »

^ +1
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Post Post #2137 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:39 am

Post by Porochaz »

Deadline is (expired on 2015-11-08 19:00:00)
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Post Post #2138 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:52 am

Post by Bins »

I'll look over Catboi's scot post later. Someone remind me.

In post 2135, Papa Zito wrote:I'm gonna start rereading things though I srsly doubt I'm moving off of Davsto. In a game that apparently doesn't have vigs, Davsto type lynches need to happen earlier rather than later.


I feel this way.
I think there could be a chance Davsto's "gtfo" attitude is very newtown being wagoned. But something feels so off about it.
Of course, that's not as elaborate in my wording as Zito probably wants but it's seriously just "I don't think I'm ever going to feel okay with this slot."
is this where I tell you to swipe right

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Post Post #2139 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:53 am

Post by Bins »

Also, the amount of people brushing it off as "he's clearly genuine!!!!" is getting to me because I simply don't see it. I don't see how they could see it. And I think that's an easy stance that people could be taking on their buddy, though, I doubt they'd be as obvious about it.
is this where I tell you to swipe right

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Post Post #2140 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:16 am

Post by pirate mollie »

In post 2135, Papa Zito wrote:
In post 2127, catboi wrote:when he was grilling Bins about following mattp's vote on flameaxe, he posts this:

In post 657, Papa Zito wrote:That's interesting. In that case why were you on a wagon (MattP) with both BBM and Reck?


But later in the thread, when he's voting notscience, we have this exchange:

Yes you sure did quote some things there.


I'm gonna start rereading things though I srsly doubt I'm moving off of Davsto.
In a game that apparently doesn't have vigs, Davsto type lynches need to happen earlier rather than later.


BULLSHIT

In post 2134, Espeonage wrote:Ya sorry prodded, been having this on backburner. I think I still need to respond to the star case and comment on dav wagon as a todo list.


^ THIS IS WHAT VIGS ARE FOR AND YOU VERY WELL KNOW IT, NOT FOR TOWN WHO HAS BEEN BLUDGEONED INTO GIVING UP

this isn't you. you have been lynches on low hanging fruit all game and you haven't done anything with any depth whatsoever. you hound dave for a readslist with OMG REASONS but i have no freaking clue what your reads are.
hey everybody do you know what zito's reads are? why is he being allowed to get away with this?


catboi gave a very comprehensive and you reduce it to, "oh you posted some quotes"? after badgering every1 to give reads only to nitpick at them?

NO.
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Post Post #2141 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:17 am

Post by pirate mollie »

also I change my read on scotty!
whew!
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Post Post #2142 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:19 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

definition of hypocrite.

In post 2135, Papa Zito wrote: In a game that apparently doesn't have vigs, Davsto type lynches need to happen earlier rather than later.


I agree with this sentiment, but when Zito says it, it looks scummy to me.

(shrug).
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Post Post #2143 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:20 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

In post 2140, pirate mollie wrote:
this isn't you. you have been lynches on low hanging fruit all game and you haven't done anything with any depth whatsoever. you hound dave for a readslist with OMG REASONS but i have no freaking clue what your reads are.
hey everybody do you know what zito's reads are? why is he being allowed to get away with this?


catboi gave a very comprehensive and you reduce it to, "oh you posted some quotes"? after badgering every1 to give reads only to nitpick at them?



so is zito scum?
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Post Post #2144 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:26 am

Post by mykonian »

In post 2135, Papa Zito wrote:In a game that apparently doesn't have vigs, Davsto type lynches need to happen earlier rather than later.


This is unworthy of you zito. There's always a couple of davsto's. The trick is to pick out the scummy ones, and get the others to work with you. Espe/AJ I think is no scummy davsto, but I haven't heard a convincing argument either way for davsto himself.

I may be lazy these last couple of days, but I'm hardly the only one, it seems.
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Post Post #2145 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:27 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

unvote, vote mykonian
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Post Post #2146 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:30 am

Post by Spiffeh »

mollie Davsto is not giving up. He has been given ample opportunity to provide some content and actually help but instead he opted to throw a hissy fit, further discredit and misrepresent everyone scum reading him, and resort to AtE that people are buying for some reason.
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Post Post #2147 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:31 am

Post by pirate mollie »

In post 2143, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 2140, pirate mollie wrote:
this isn't you. you have been lynches on low hanging fruit all game and you haven't done anything with any depth whatsoever. you hound dave for a readslist with OMG REASONS but i have no freaking clue what your reads are.
hey everybody do you know what zito's reads are? why is he being allowed to get away with this?


catboi gave a very comprehensive and you reduce it to, "oh you posted some quotes"? after badgering every1 to give reads only to nitpick at them?



so is zito scum?


I think he is and it is depressing as hell.
whew!
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Post Post #2148 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:31 am

Post by scotmany12 »

Mollie wrote:BULLSHIT

In post 2134, Espeonage wrote:Ya sorry prodded, been having this on backburner. I think I still need to respond to the star case and comment on dav wagon as a todo list.


^ THIS IS WHAT VIGS ARE FOR AND YOU VERY WELL KNOW IT, NOT FOR TOWN WHO HAS BEEN BLUDGEONED INTO GIVING UP

You mean like how davstro was this entire game? Except davstro was actively avoiding prods. He just wasn't doing anything. And when spiffeh asked for more after his Espe vote, he flipped out for no reason. That's not a town reaction.

Why has your read changed on me?
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Post Post #2149 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:32 am

Post by Spiffeh »

Davsto is not town* giving up

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