Open 612 - Bad Poets Society - Game Over - Town Win

[GrayFoxxxx]

sorry when im mobile i cant switch as easy due to passwords

anyways im not inherntly opposed to it right now. the only thing is that it basicly makes a roadmap of kills

I mean I get it would give scum obv targets, but would it outweigh the benefits?

[MaxwellPuckett]

'Benefits' being one or both of Brunneis and Makara being scum?

UNVOTE:
I still think you could be scum, but i would like your current read on brunn.


VOTE: Brunn

Going back to original vote

A portion of my passing over Brunneis had to do with both goodmorning and Trivium's behaviour towards them. Since I know both of them were coming from a town viewpoint, I'm rethinking it, but I'm still not looking at Brunneis' posts themselves and seeing scum motivation. Mostly their posts when they were counting down the minutes until day was over, and telling someone to hammer Triv. I feel dumb for pulling the 'too scummy to be scum' thing but it looks like Brunneis is simply not being careful, which is a leaning town trait.


So I don't really like then call to go after Brunneis, then Makara. I'm more interested in Errant, who I'm waiting on for a reaction to her questioning about Ranger's scumread on her (still looks like questions for the sake of questions), Duppin, for 442 (do you care which wagon you're on?) and also for not really engaging, and Grayfox, who just gives me bad vibes. But Gray did unvote after I called them out on the way they went about it, so it might have just been an ill-considered vote? It wasn't opportunistic, and they weren't just looking for somewhere to vote-park, since as 524 shows they had a Brunneis vote waiting in the wings.

Actually, I don't know why I scumread Grayfox, I guess they're more null?

[Brunneis]

Scum screwed up nightkilling two possible mislynches. Really bad play.

Scum team is Brunneis, Makara, and Varsoon.

Bet firebringers life on it.

Constantine, I can't believe you'd say something that stupid.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Yo Brun, still discussing your death over here. Thoughts on the events of today? Like, Varsoon's claim, a massclaim, the votes on you, the votes off you?

[Brunneis]

Fuck it.
You guys solve the setup.
Here's what I know we have:
1-Shot Cop (GM, dead)
Doctor (Me)
Serial Killer (Two kills were made)
Scum Roleblocker (I protected GM last night, the protect was blocked because GM is dead--you can only have a Serial Killer in this setup with a scum roleblocker or more T rolls than are allowed given what we have already.)
Innocent Child (FireHermit)

So it is at least
CDMT

Although I am hedging my bets that it is
CCDMTTT

Regardless, I am dead tonight.
There's no use in the other town role claiming because scum has a roleblocker and there are two kills.

What a load of wank.

I hope the real Doctor isn't stupid enough to counterclaim.

Varsoon, do you forget that I was your Scum Buddy in that game where you fakeclaimed Cop on Day3?

You know better than to throw out a claim on Day 2 unless you're at L-1.

There's no indication that there's a Serial Killer, we could have a Vig.

If there is a Serial Killer then Town or Scum would have a RoleCop, no? You didn't mention that.

Also, Town would need more PRs that just a Cop and a Doc.

What do the C,M,D,T mean?

VOTE: Varsoon

[Brunneis]

Varsoon, I do hope you know that the lack of a counterclaim in an unknown set-up does not confirm you as town.

The only smart thing you've said this whole game.

[Brunneis]

Regardless, we have, at minimum, in the case of a mass-claim, three town confirmed players.

No, we have 4 confirmed Town.

3 of them are dead.

The IC hydra is the 4th.

[Brunneis]

Yo Brun, still discussing your death over here. Thoughts on the events of today? Like, Varsoon's claim, a massclaim, the votes on you, the votes off you?

My thoughts on Varsoon are in post 529.

A masssclaim on Day 2 is idiotic. Completely unnecessary.

It does nothing but point out targets for Scum NKs.

There was/is no need to Doc Fire Hermit, their trollish, anti-Town behavior guarantees that they won't be killed until right before LyLo. They're too helpful to Scum.

The votes on us? The one from FireHermit is pure idiocy. The rest? Count on Scum being part of those votes.


By the way, Taly is V/LA for a day or two, this will be the Klingon head.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Brunneis

Holy shit please read the setup.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B

Rolecop IS NOT EVEN a possible role. EVEN POST 2 DOES NOT INCLUDE ROLECOP AS A POSSIBLE ROLE.
We could easily have DD or even DDD, so a counterclaim of doc

would not even invalidate my claim

.
If you knew the setup instead of spouting bullshit, you would know that my claim lets us confirm myself and at least one other person as town if we mass claim right the fuck now.

I am still reeling over this.
How do you sign up for a goddamn

OPEN

game and NOT read the setup notes?
How

dare

you give Firehermit a goddamn high-five for claiming we don't know the fucking setup when the entire fucking thing is posted in post 2?

I hope to the heavens you understand what OPEN setup means, and I hope you aren't this dense.
I understand that I have a history of gambiting hard with claims--in

closed

setup games.
You can

not

gambit hard with claims until lategame in OPEN setups because counterclaims ensure you or the person you are setting up are dead. It becomes an all-or-nothing strategy. If you're going to get paranoid because of my scum-game, at least understand that I am capable of that sort of scum-game because I understand how games work. Maybe read up how I play in different types of games, too? If I can strong-arm that hard as scum, what makes you rationalize that I can not do that as town?
I've played a C9++ setup at least once before, and in that game I was scum, and I realized exactly how strong a massclaim destroys scum in this setup.

You're in an OPEN setup.

Read.

The.

Fucking.

Setup.

[Varsoon]

And, yes, I am voting you and I do think you should be lynched.
The reason why is not just because you don't know the setup in an open game (and I know you have enough experience with Mafia to know better than this), but;
You're voting me and going because I'm claiming and saying things you don't understand.
Rather than asking me to elaborate what things like CDMT are, you are voting me and scumreading me.
The rational town response, when confronted with confusing information, would be inquiry.
It's scummy to vote someone because you don't understand them.
It's anti-town to neglect reading the open setup and then vote a player rather than asking them what they are talking about when it comes to the setup.
You're playing from a strongly scum perspective--not just here, but yesterday given the lynch.

That's why I am voting for you.

[Quaroath]

Vote Count 2.1

Roses are red
Blood is too
Will you be dead
and who, you slew?

Brunneis – (2) GrayFoxxxx, Varsoon
Errantparabola – (1) Ranger
Varsoon – (1) Brunneis
Not voting - (6)duppin, Errantparabola, Ika Musume, Makara, MaxwellPuckett, The Fire Hermit

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-11-11 23:59:59)

[Brunneis]

This is Taly, everyone. And this is also one of the few times I'll identify myself

Hey everyone - my computer charger isn't working so I'm running off a siblings. I didn't expect it, but I'm off school today for several reasons so I have bit of time to post some of my current thoughts.

A Vedith and GM kill? Odd... GM was opposed to us, but Vedith's vote was on GM at the end of the day 464

Something isn't right with this picture. However, I refuse to do any set-up specing until we see some flips.

Scum team is Brunneis, Makara, and Varsoon. Bet firebringers life on it.

Varsoon is 100% town, I'm afraid, so you are wrong there, but you can be right about the other two. (Honestly, I actually hope you are. It'd make my job much easier.)

I haven't caught all the way up yet, so could you explain this to me?

Sure. Absolutely nothing has changed since 459 which was a post where I said nothing had changed. Errant remains the best lynch.

I'll admit I don't know who the other scum are (you're a possibility, I'm considering makara, I do have my eye on Brunneis, but otherwise I don't), but Errant remains every bit the scum she was yesterday.

It's been 500+ posts and you still believe Errant is the best lynch?

I'm sorry, but I keep looking at your ISO and not seeing a consistent amount of reasoning against Errant to suggest tunneling.... Which I've yet to see town do.

So could you please explain this bit by bit to me? Why is Errant still the best lynch even after the flips from others we saw previously?

Brunneis: you asked for reasoning, but it will have to wait. I'm a bit tired today, sorry.

I'm waiting.

Nothing has changed this:
VOTE: Errantparabola.

I haven't caught all the way up yet, so could you explain this to me?

Nothing has changed with his reasoning, that's the point.

@ika

Why don't you think we should mass claim?

Why should we? I've never been in this type of game before, but there are way too many possibilities for set-up theory to know what this game is like based off only 3 flips and 1 conf-town.

UNVOTE:
I still think you could be scum, but i would like your current read on brunn.


VOTE: Brunn

Going back to original vote

So.... You say someone could be scum but unvote them.

And then revert back to your original vote? Assuming you haven't really caught up too much with the game?

OK--I don't even understand exactly why I'm scum, but you're giving me all the signs that your vote is to just conceal a lynch today.

>>>

@Varsoon

I'm impressed Varsoon, you magically started posting more the past 2 days in this dayphase than you have in the entire two-week long D1 phase.

Also Varsoon, I don't really understand why you seemed to be very upset about the vote... Klingon did ask about what CDMT meant...

So you responded with voting for us because it's scummy that we voted for you and didn't understand you?

What's the purpose of 534? This looks like you're just re-iterating your vote and then painting our D1 performance scummy as well to back-up your read on us without any answer to the question - which is weird since you never really pushed us in D1 other than voting us because we wouldn't have a lot of resistance.

>>>>

Also, I forgot duppin was in this game.

Are you there, duppin?

[GrayFoxxxx]

@brunn
I really don't know about the mass claim thing, hence me asking ika.

What do you mean conceal a lynch? Sorry for my ignorance, but I've never heard that before.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Also, the max vote was to get him to post so I could better read him. I had a townlean on him D1, but relooking I'm changing my mind.
He is null right now, his latest post looks sort of townish.
Brunn, I'm voting you now because of the way D1 played out. Tie that in with the odd interactions you and I had D1.

Why don't you think scum pushed your lynch through?

[Varsoon]

Brunneis.
Unvote me and read the actual setup.
It's scummy to not read the setup and vote a claiming player because you do not understand the setup.
Of course I am more active. I am a fucking doctor. I wanted to lay low D1. I now have very valuable info to share with town. That's why I am now more vocal.
The whole point of 534 is to establish exactly why I am voting you--the way you are voting for me and responding to my claim and posts is scum-oriented.
It isn't just that you have not read the setup or do not understand it, it's that you're willing to vote and choke down another player rather than educating yourself.

[The Fire Hermit]

Calm down varsoon! Like for real! Your intensity transcends the internet itself.
Let's just lynch brunneis and progress the day.

@Maxwell - Can you please explain your meta to me just briefly? I know that seems like a silly question, but your slot kind of scares me because you look super town even when you are scum. You are one of the more dangerous players, and normally I would just ask the cop to investigate you, but we cannot be sure if another exists given the 1-shot cop already flipped. Therefore I would like to know briefly what you think of your usual meta please.

[The Fire Hermit]

To counter varsoon, ignorance isn't allignment indicative. It is not scummy at all to not read the set-up and to vote a claiming player. Some might even make the case that it is town, since scum might be less willing to make an apparent mistake like that.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Scum team is Brunneis, Makara, and Varsoon. Bet firebringers life on it.

Varsoon is 100% town, I'm afraid, so you are wrong there, but you can be right about the other two. (Honestly, I actually hope you are. It'd make my job much easier.)

I haven't caught all the way up yet, so could you explain this to me?

Sure. Absolutely nothing has changed since 459 which was a post where I said nothing had changed. Errant remains the best lynch.

I'll admit I don't know who the other scum are (you're a possibility, I'm considering makara, I do have my eye on Brunneis, but otherwise I don't), but Errant remains every bit the scum she was yesterday.

It's been 500+ posts and you still believe Errant is the best lynch?

I'm sorry, but I keep looking at your ISO and not seeing a consistent amount of reasoning against Errant to suggest tunneling.... Which I've yet to see town do.

So could you please explain this bit by bit to me? Why is Errant still the best lynch even after the flips from others we saw previously?

'Even after the flips from others we saw previously'... what does that mean? Who are you suggesting is scummier, exactly? Varsoon?

Brunneis: you asked for reasoning, but it will have to wait. I'm a bit tired today, sorry.

I'm waiting.

Er... you do realize you've quoted post 190 here? It's been a little bit since then. Ranger explained their reasoning for scumreading Errant later.

Nothing has changed this:
VOTE: Errantparabola.

I haven't caught all the way up yet, so could you explain this to me?

Nothing has changed with his reasoning, that's the point.

I thought you said there wasn't any reasoning?

This whole post feels like a weird indirect defense of Errant. Are you townreading her for some reason? Or are you scumreading ranger? Can you vote someone besides the claimed doctor?

VOTE: Brunneis

When I'm faced with a decision, I usually go with my gut instead of my head. But I'm learning my gut isn't very good at mafia.

PEDIT: Fire, about Brunneis not reading the setup: It's not scummy by itself, but it's certainly anti-town, and you'd think klingon, who has a boatload of games, would read the open setup. Anyways, this comes to how I feel about Brunneis: don't really like their posts, don't agree with most of their points, but I think scum would exercise at least a little caution, especially when accusing a claimed doctor. I don't want to just give them a pass for that, though. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Which brings me to your other question:

About my meta. I've never really put my play into words before, so I'm not sure how to describe things? I'm aware that I tend to townread mislynchable players, and I'm more suspicious of players who lead discussions. And because of that, I can also overcompensate and go too far in the other direction. Hence my problem with Brunneis. As for my town vs. scum play... I don't really know how they're different? I think someone else would have to tell me that, I'm sure there are differences but they're probably unconscious. If players townread me, I think it's because they like my playing style, and because I try not to push buttons as either alignment. I do know as scum I tend to sit back more if things are going well. If I don't need to post and I'm active enough, I won't, because I'm afraid of saying something that would hurt my standing.

[Brunneis]

@brunn
I really don't know about the mass claim thing, hence me asking ika.

What do you mean conceal a lynch? Sorry for my ignorance, but I've never heard that before.

Conceal a lynch... Putting a vote up to make sure a lynch on that occurs without either major reasoning, or based off of a previous notion that someone is to be lynched.

Also, the max vote was to get him to post so I could better read him. I had a townlean on him D1, but relooking I'm changing my mind.
He is null right now, his latest post looks sort of townish.
Brunn, I'm voting you now because of the way D1 played out. Tie that in with the odd interactions you and I had D1.

Why don't you think scum pushed your lynch through?

Probably to set up my mislynch in D2? Nobody is against that.... GM was killed, and she targeted me as much as Trivium.

Trivium flipped town.

Scum killed GM to make it even more likely that I'll appear as scum.

Vedith was against GM, and townread me - He was killed - or at least, didn't want my lynch.

Brunneis.
Unvote me and read the actual setup.
It's scummy to not read the setup and vote a claiming player because you do not understand the setup.
Of course I am more active. I am a fucking doctor. I wanted to lay low D1. I now have very valuable info to share with town. That's why I am now more vocal.
The whole point of 534 is to establish exactly why I am voting you--the way you are voting for me and responding to my claim and posts is scum-oriented.
It isn't just that you have not read the setup or do not understand it, it's that you're willing to vote and choke down another player rather than educating yourself.

Unvoting you will require conversation between both heads and the other isn't present right now.

This is the first time Kling or myself had been in a set-up like this. I have no idea why - if you really are a doctor - would claim doctor on D2. Plus, I've been in games where you've done something very similar as scum.

Also, set-up speculation isn't telling us who is scum and town based off the flips we already know. I just don't understand why you'd fire a vote at anyone for pushing you against all of what you've said so far, when there is nothing to confirm it other than your own word.

With that being said; are there any other people you're scumreading? What do you think about Ranger and Errant?

Calm down varsoon! Like for real! Your intensity transcends the internet itself.
Let's just lynch brunneis and progress the day.

@Maxwell - Can you please explain your meta to me just briefly? I know that seems like a silly question, but your slot kind of scares me because you look super town even when you are scum. You are one of the more dangerous players, and normally I would just ask the cop to investigate you, but we cannot be sure if another exists given the 1-shot cop already flipped. Therefore I would like to know briefly what you think of your usual meta please.

Hey Hermit, this is a piece of my thinking

I know you want me dead, but several people yesterday said that I had to die sometime in this game, and looking at how the NKs happened

I'm pretty sure scum would want my lynch today, and you're conf-town whose still alive while nobody will dare push to lynch you - so if I had to guess any of your behaviors that are benefitting - or not harming scum right now, it'd be you advertising me as a lynch candidate....

I don't want D1 to happen all over again today - so I'm trying to talk to you.

'Even after the flips from others we saw previously'... what does that mean? Who are you suggesting is scummier, exactly? Varsoon?

Well, Trivium, GM, and Vedith all flipped town..... I don't know how that leads to Errant being the days best lynch from what Ranger is saying. It makes me suspicious that he's just bussing his partner because I've never seen tunneling go down well for town in a game.

And people I think are scummier? Right now? Probably both Ranger and Errant, and maybe Gray... but I'm beginning to get a town feel from Gray, he seems genuine like town.

Er... you do realize you've quoted post 190 here? It's been a little bit since then. Ranger explained their reasoning for scumreading Errant later.

I was referring to how Ranger was scumreading me.... Since he never followed up on my question when he casted his suspicions.

Plus, I would also like him to explain Errant a bit more.

I thought you said there wasn't any reasoning?

This whole post feels like a weird indirect defense of Errant. Are you townreading her for some reason? Or are you scumreading ranger? Can you vote someone besides the claimed doctor?

I just stated my idea on Errant/Ranger both being scum.

And my vote will probably change very soon, I just want Ranger's response, and want Klingon to be on - we post different times of day.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Also, to EVERYONE voting me, or CONSIDERING to vote for me I have a question:

Who are my scum partners?

[Varsoon]

Your bolded question to everyone is evasive as fuck, bro.
You're squirming.
Keep your posts short. Keep them concise and simple and straightforward.

Read the setup.

The fact you still have not read the setup is clear from you still scratching your head over why I would claim that I was a doctor who has been roleblocked.

If the roleblocker in this setup is town, please claim right now. I will protect you tonight, so you will not die.

If the extra kill in this setup is town (vigilante), please claim right now. I will protect you tonight, so you will not die.

No matter what, I am dying tonight. Scum/SK have no reason not to target me, especially since they, hopefully, understand how strong claiming is for town in this setup.

Brunneis, your comments about me fake-claiming in other

CLOSED

setups have no weight here, because this is an

OPEN

setup. Please read the setup. If you do read the setup and still have questions about my claim, why I claimed, and why a mass-claim needs to happen today, I will answer them.

The other benefit of a mass-claim is that it will help to prove my claim. So there's that, too. Scum's only real leeway is depended on the existence of an SK/Vig, but our flipped and known roles confirm that scum can't have a T value more than 3 (iirc), so scum is limited already in what they can fake claim. Scum's fakes in C9++ are limited by how many Ts they have and only allow for a roleblocker fake claim.

So, if you think I'm faking the doctor claim and you're voting me over that, you're pushing someone who's claim can be disproven by a massclaim right now. So, if anything, you should not be resistant to a mass claim unless you are scum, because it will lower the mislynch pool by confirming both me and at least one other player as town.

Ignorance is not scummy. Pushing a shit vote on a claimed doctor because you still haven't read the setup after signing up for an

OPEN SETUP

even after being reminded several times to

READ THE FUCKING SETUP

is incredibly scummy. The way you are going about this push while trying to address every possible angle, while flailing to ask bolded hypotheticals that divert attention (LOL WHO IS MY SCUMTEAM THEN GUYSSS) is scummy as shit.

VOTE: Brunnies
IF you are town, never join an open again without reading a setup and never go in half-cocked against someone when you haven't even fucking read the setup.

[Varsoon]

We're currently in what is either a 6-3-1 or a 7-3 town-to-scum-to-SK ratio.
With Firehermit as confirmed town, this allows for a pool of 9 for lynch, with only 5/6 townies in that pool.
With myself and the 1 minimum other confirmed townie who can confirm town on a mass claim, our pool shrinks to 7 for lynch, with only 3/4 chance of hitting town.
With two kills out per night, our chances of losing the game after N3 (with SK) and N4 (with Vig) are very high if we do not lynch or kill scum.
This is an issue.
We should mass-claim, as it will maximize our potential as town.
If you do not want to mass-claim, I will just stop posting altogether until I get killed tonight.
Because fuck you.

[MaxwellPuckett]

'Even after the flips from others we saw previously'... what does that mean? Who are you suggesting is scummier, exactly? Varsoon?

Well, Trivium, GM, and Vedith all flipped town..... I don't know how that leads to Errant being the days best lynch from what Ranger is saying. It makes me suspicious that he's just bussing his partner because I've never seen tunneling go down well for town in a game.

And people I think are scummier? Right now? Probably both Ranger and Errant, and maybe Gray... but I'm beginning to get a town feel from Gray, he seems genuine like town.

Okay, see this is what I don't understand. From the sounds of this, Errant is your second-best scumread... after Ranger himself. (I'm not including Varsoon here for a reason) so... why is it weird that he'd be Ranger's top lynch target?

I'm guessing it's the tunneling that bothers you, and not the Errant read?

Er... you do realize you've quoted post 190 here? It's been a little bit since then. Ranger explained their reasoning for scumreading Errant later.

I was referring to how Ranger was scumreading me.... Since he never followed up on my question when he casted his suspicions.

Plus, I would also like him to explain Errant a bit more.

Oh, I see. Sorry that I took that post out of context, then.

This whole post feels like a weird indirect defense of Errant. Are you townreading her for some reason? Or are you scumreading ranger? Can you vote someone besides the claimed doctor?

I just stated my idea on Errant/Ranger both being scum.

And my vote will probably change very soon, I just want Ranger's response, and want Klingon to be on - we post different times of day.

I didn't really get that until you just stated it now. And you CAN change your vote without klingon's permission. It's not difficult to change later. Do you guys have some kind of agreement where you're not allowed to do that?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Also, to EVERYONE voting me, or CONSIDERING to vote for me I have a question:

Who are my scum partners?

Errant and duppin come to mind.

PEDIT: Varsoon, I get that you're annoyed, but please keep posting.

I agree though, massclaim is our best option. I'm not seeing a reason to think that Varsoon is scum, this setup (open setups in general) make fakeclaiming dangerous, and asking for a mass claim on top of that would be over the top.

[The Fire Hermit]

There are too many lurkers and non participation in this game.

We are doing a mass claim.

Everyone participate.
NOW!!

[The Fire Hermit]

We're currently in what is either a 6-3-1 or a 7-3 town-to-scum-to-SK ratio.
With Firehermit as confirmed town, this allows for a pool of 9 for lynch, with only 5/6 townies in that pool.
With myself and the 1 minimum other confirmed townie who can confirm town on a mass claim, our pool shrinks to 7 for lynch, with only 3/4 chance of hitting town.
With two kills out per night, our chances of losing the game after N3 (with SK) and N4 (with Vig) are very high if we do not lynch or kill scum.
This is an issue.
We should mass-claim, as it will maximize our potential as town.
If you do not want to mass-claim, I will just stop posting altogether until I get killed tonight.
Because fuck you.

Completely agree.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'd suggest we do a methodical mass claim lead by the IC, but considering activity in this game it would reeaallyyy drag things out, and I think damage the atmosphere further.

I'm a VT.