Newbie 1656 : Game Over

[lordj210]

look at it this way the 1 person who did not vote AT all yesterday is once again NOT VOTING as of yet today. im not great with producing these read things but i decent at putting out what im thinking even if its just looking at 1 or 2 people.

[Sakura Hana]

Eh, it's worth a try
VOTE: Mandarin

[Ether]

When I said "talk to him," I meant "talk to him." Just in case that wasn't clear or anything.

[LoHa]

The fact that he hasn't voted throughout the entire game, no scumreads, it's like he's a jester.

I don't know why scum would play like that and I certainly don't understand why town VT would either, past-games tramae notwithstanding.

[LoHa]

Ok you voted mighty and sort of called ether, sakura and SW scummy. Any update on that?

[lordj210]

@LoHa wh are you directing the questions towrds?

[SilverWolf]

im still leaning heavily on mandarin as skum followed by SW for same reasons i stated fom start of d2

I believe you said me bringing us to the last seconds of the day was an attempt to get towncred. Not really. We had several hours before deadline. It was you or GM. GM's anger at me looked kind of genuine so I changed my mind. You made a couple posts during that that looked kind of townie so I went back to GM. I couldn't really make up my mind between the two of you but I had been scumreading GM for a long time and there was no reason to erase all my reasons for scumreading her because she was frustrated at being caught. What really sealed it for me, is she wouldn't of treated me the way she has this game if she was town. I've played enough town games with her to know that. She was either avoiding me or telling me I wasn't worth bothering with as either alignment. She always engages me when she's been town. She was avoiding me, snapping at me, and also trying to set me up as a future scumread. She was willing to wagon me and get me lynched if someone else started the wagon. Without ever bothering to tell anyone what she thought about my alignment. What town player says they'll lynch someone without looking into them first? What town player says someone else has to start the wagon first?

lordj is a fine lynch. It's PoE to me at this point but there's been nothing lordj has done to lead me to believe he's town. I'm willing to listen to someone saying he's town and why but at this point, LoHa and Moosey are uncc'd PR's so I'm not touching them. Sakura and OceanWind went after GM pretty hard and both look townie to me so not interested. Ether is my third choice but her posts today have looked good-she's explaining herself and doing a good job of telling us everything she's thinking-being transparent. MightyMandarin is scummy for not voting and sitting back and calling everything interesting but his paranoia over the experienced players early on seemed genunine enough. He could be scum still but he's in second place. First is lordj. It's PoE sure, but I am not seeing anything that screams town and I have outlined some issues I've had with this posts. Sometimes he makes one that looks kind of townie and makes me change my mind though. So I would not be opposed to MightyMandarin today if we decided to go that way. But for now, lordj seems the stronger of the choices but only barely. He should do something to convince me he's town if he really is.

[lordj210]

im still leaning heavily on mandarin as skum followed by SW for same reasons i stated fom start of d2

I believe you said me bringing us to the last seconds of the day was an attempt to get towncred. Not really. We had several hours before deadline. It was you or GM. GM's anger at me looked kind of genuine so I changed my mind. You made a couple posts during that that looked kind of townie so I went back to GM. I couldn't really make up my mind between the two of you but I had been scumreading GM for a long time and there was no reason to erase all my reasons for scumreading her because she was frustrated at being caught. What really sealed it for me, is she wouldn't of treated me the way she has this game if she was town. I've played enough town games with her to know that. She was either avoiding me or telling me I wasn't worth bothering with as either alignment. She always engages me when she's been town. She was avoiding me, snapping at me, and also trying to set me up as a future scumread. She was willing to wagon me and get me lynched if someone else started the wagon. Without ever bothering to tell anyone what she thought about my alignment. What town player says they'll lynch someone without looking into them first? What town player says someone else has to start the wagon first?

lordj is a fine lynch. It's PoE to me at this point but there's been nothing lordj has done to lead me to believe he's town. I'm willing to listen to someone saying he's town and why but at this point, LoHa and Moosey are uncc'd PR's so I'm not touching them. Sakura and OceanWind went after GM pretty hard and both look townie to me so not interested. Ether is my third choice but her posts today have looked good-she's explaining herself and doing a good job of telling us everything she's thinking-being transparent. MightyMandarin is scummy for not voting and sitting back and calling everything interesting but his paranoia over the experienced players early on seemed genunine enough. He could be scum still but he's in second place. First is lordj. It's PoE sure, but I am not seeing anything that screams town and I have outlined some issues I've had with this posts. Sometimes he makes one that looks kind of townie and makes me change my mind though. So I would not be opposed to MightyMandarin today if we decided to go that way. But for now, lordj seems the stronger of the choices but only barely. He should do something to convince me he's town if he really is.

im jsut gonna say im a safe town mislynch ie you wont be killing anyone important by killing me

[MoosyDoosy]

I'm plenty sure lordj210 is town actually. He has a clean filter and while his spelling has been confusing, he shows how his reads have developed over time. I also understand why he voted GM at EoD as the case was going to be no lynch otherwise. Admittedly, he hasn't done much about his wagon other than to say that he's a mislynch but from what I've seen, there hasn't been a strong case on him anyway. Can people on his wagon explain why exactly they think he's scum?

[MoosyDoosy]

@lordj210, can you just explain why you did this early in D1?

You first say that no lynch is very bad for town:

Well, did they say why?

Well, it's been a few years. One guy convincing everyone to lynch me said "all you do is deflect." Like am I not supposed to address the points in the case he's making about me? Another thing was, they were all experienced players and were constantly referring to past games to make points about each other's scuminess. It seemed every post I made dug me deeper. Anyways, I never got how day 1 was supposed to work in this. There's always joke voting and people taking joke voting seriously.

It is bad for town not to vote, right? I'll go read the newbie guide.

from what ive seen and heard no lynching is almsot always bad for town weather the lynch ends up being a mislynch or not its still almsot always ad to no lynch

And then you proceed to do this:

ill be heading of to work here shortly but tonight i will be able to give more but right now i cant really say ive got much a read on anyone, and also to fix the l-2 that i dont like i will be

VOTE: UNVOTE vote no lynch for the momemt

Just wondering what the rationale was in taking an action you said was bad for town.

[MoosyDoosy]

I didn't vote for goodmorning because I still wasn't sure.

I agree with the case against Moosy. VOTE: Moosy

Which case was this?

And why did you think that me saying I didn't care was a bluff? ^_^ What made you think I really didn't care afterwards?

[Sakura Hana]

The fact that he hasn't voted throughout the entire game, no scumreads, it's like he's a jester.

I don't know why scum would play like that and I certainly don't understand why town VT would either, past-games tramae notwithstanding.

Wrong, Scum has all the motivation in the world to not vote, it prevents connections from being drawn, etc (look at how im thinking you're town just for the fact that GM insta voted you to form a counterwagon to her).

[lordj210]

@lordj210, can you just explain why you did this early in D1?

You first say that no lynch is very bad for town:

Well, did they say why?

Well, it's been a few years. One guy convincing everyone to lynch me said "all you do is deflect." Like am I not supposed to address the points in the case he's making about me? Another thing was, they were all experienced players and were constantly referring to past games to make points about each other's scuminess. It seemed every post I made dug me deeper. Anyways, I never got how day 1 was supposed to work in this. There's always joke voting and people taking joke voting seriously.

It is bad for town not to vote, right? I'll go read the newbie guide.

from what ive seen and heard no lynching is almsot always bad for town weather the lynch ends up being a mislynch or not its still almsot always ad to no lynch

And then you proceed to do this:

ill be heading of to work here shortly but tonight i will be able to give more but right now i cant really say ive got much a read on anyone, and also to fix the l-2 that i dont like i will be

VOTE: UNVOTE vote no lynch for the momemt

Just wondering what the rationale was in taking an action you said was bad for town.

was early in the day and i do bealive i was in a rush either heading to bed or heading to work my main oint in the unvote was to get the vote off LoHa so noone fast lynched , yes i realize novote and no lynch are differant things however the vote was plased elsewhere a couple of days later, and i still dont know where the wagon on me came from at the end of d1

[Sakura Hana]

Eh for some reason i thought i was replying to lordj, point remains, but the "you" should be changed with lordj

[Mightymandarin]

look at it this way the 1 person who did not vote AT all yesterday is once again NOT VOTING as of yet today.

OK, yea, I can't really defend myself against this. I was timid in Day 1, I should have put my foot down. At the time, I figured we had a few more hours to discuss things, but looking back I should have voted. Lesson learned. I did vote today, but retracted my vote when Moosy claimed. I thought Ocean's case against him was pretty solid. I did think not voting would come back to get me, but I figured that would be such an obvious, scummy thing to do, any scum would of COURSE have voted to blend in. If I were scum, I would have definitely voted. But no, I was town doubting my own paranoia, unable to make heads or tails of anything, so that's why I never voted. I'm saying that yes, I stood out and didn't vote which was not a good town move, but it was based on me being inexperienced and unsure, not that I was trying to defend my partner.

Also I chimed in saying "this is interesting" basically because I didn't want to get prodded and kicked out of the game. Like I said, I don't really know what to say most of the time.

I know this isn't looking good for me, so if I end up getting lynched, I understand. I'm about to head out, so I don't have any analysis of anyone else right now. I hope you all give me a few more days to make my case and consider another lynch candidate.

[MoosyDoosy]

This makes things a bit harder. I thought the game was in the bag but someone's playing well as scum.

UNVOTE: MoosyDoosy
VOTE: Lordj

My townread here is the weakest. Everyone who were voting Lordj is a townread, claimed JK, or was the counterwagon and there were also a lot of people willing to switch either way (SilverWolf, Sakura). GoodMorning and Lordj crossvoting isn't out of the question and scum-scum wagons are good for scum to get them out of a sticky situation if both are caught.

Did you do your re-read on lordj210 as you said you would? What about him do you think is scummy?

[MoosyDoosy]

I don't think he and GoodMorning planned it all out from the start. I do think that if he were town, she'd be putting in at least a little more than a token effort at derailing her own lynch onto his.

Especially concerning this @OceanWind.

[Malakittens]

Ur mod is drunk?
But here's a VC

Official Vote Count

Mightymandarin

(3): MoosyDoosy, lordj210, Sakura Hana

lordj210

(3): OceanWind, Ether, SilverWolf

Not Voting

(2): Mightymandarin, LoHa

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-10 01:00:00)

[Ether]

unvote

I feel slightly worse about Mightymandarin and slightly better about lordj. Bluh.

(I still stand by what I said to Sakura, though. I hate how her exchange with me was just a bunch of stupid potshots without any real attempt to understand my positions, and while I don't

mind

that she's no longer voting me, the reason she stopped still makes no sense. I think that's a personality thing, I don't think it's scummy, but I don't want to see her do it again to someone else.)

I would ask a question to Ether or Moosy, and they'd ignore me, which to me isn't very fun. So, I would go on stronger until maybe I got a little overzealous and a few days later read back over what I wrote and think "Hm, I'm actually not sure about this."

This isn't an attack, but: you asked me nothing early on. You expressed suspicion of me that boiled down to not trusting my playstyle; there wasn't anything that seemed like it needed a response. (I did consciously go, "Meh, I don't really care what this guy thinks" in my head, so, you know, I'm not actually claiming to be a good person here.)

[Mightymandarin]

Just read through most of the thread (again) and who I'm sure

TOWN

are:

SilverWolf - healthy suspicion throughout.
Sakura - same as above; was willing to trade lynches with Ether
LoHa - definitely town as he locked on to GM from the beginning
lordj210 - healthy suspicion and was willing to have himself lynched; a target of what I believe was a scum counter-wagon.
OceanWind: Although he made a good case against GM, he did it rather late

SCUM:

Most likely is Ether - I know I said I retracted my statements about her, but this is how I feel after re-reading. She dismisses people's accusations instead of arguing against them; goes for attacking people's character/posting style rather than what they are trying to say; See: Her attacking OceanWind and LoHa on their posting styles instead of what they were arguing. Plays hypocritically, saying other people need to be more interactive when she admits to ignoring people on purpose. See posts # 362, 363, 364, 365. Also, trying to get a clearly suspicious, yet very active SilverWolf on her side by trying to start a wagon on LoHa.

Sorry I forgot how to link to individual posts. I wrote down the post numbers.

Moosy - seemed to be bussing goodmorning from the start. Claimed power role, but perhaps someone is waiting to counterclaim tomorrow.

WHY I AM TOWN:

I was against the initial wagon on LoHa on D1.

I, despite my last post about him, do not think lordj210 scum, and won't join the wagon on him.

I expressed my suspicion of goodmorning in one of my earlier posts. But later I began to second guess myself which lead me to incorrectly read her when everyone else caught on to her scummy behavior.

[Mightymandarin]

VOTE: Ether

[SilverWolf]

Every time I think I figured out who is scum, they do something to make me think they are town. lordj makes a townie post, Ether defends herself well, Mightymandarin comes off looking good. I mean WTF? If scum is in Sakura or OceanWind, then I don't know how quickly I'll catch them.

Mightmandarin-They are uncc'd PR's. Not PR should be withholding ccing right now.

IF YOU ARE A PR AND HAVE A CC HERE, DO IT NOW SO WE CAN CATCH THE LAST SCUM AND WIN. THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO.

[Mightymandarin]

I thought it was considered a smart play for counterclaims to wait until the next day otherwise it's just one persons word against another?

[SilverWolf]

Not in this case. We only have one scum left. If there is a PR that isn't Moosy or LoHa, they need to speak up now because that can win us the game outright.

[Mightymandarin]

Also, how weird is it that there was no night kill? Why aren't we talking about that more? Is there a possible link to whoever wasn't most active near the end missed the window to NK?