Newbie 1656 : Game Over

[MoosyDoosy]

huh. ok.

[LoHa]

Prodge.

I'm ok with a mandarin lynch.

[OceanWind]

I'm think we have the win in the bag. Can't see anyone outside of lordj or MightyMandarin being scum. We were fortunate that two people who were suspected a lot (LoHa and MoosyDoosy) both claimed power roles.

Reading through GoodMorning's ISO, her only interactions with MightyMandarin were to answer his IC questions. It's also odd that he was townreading GoodMorning while scumreading every other experienced player.

I'll hammer MightyMandarin. SilverWolf's point about GoodMorning pushing lordj for most of the game is one I agree with and tipped the scales.

[MoosyDoosy]

I'm think we have the win in the bag. Can't see anyone outside of lordj or MightyMandarin being scum. We were fortunate that two people who were suspected a lot (LoHa and MoosyDoosy) both claimed power roles.

Reading through GoodMorning's ISO, her only interactions with MightyMandarin were to answer his IC questions. It's also odd that he was townreading GoodMorning while scumreading every other experienced player.

I'll hammer MightyMandarin. SilverWolf's point about GoodMorning pushing lordj for most of the game is one I agree with and tipped the scales.

We're waiting for MM for at least 1 day. No reply feel free to hammer him.

[MoosyDoosy]

tbh either way we're probs gonna kill him just to get him out the way as a big uncertainty. On the off chance he's town though, it'll be good to hear his last thoughts. This is great though because he can't claim PR since the two have already claimed. And even if he does, he'll be killed the next day/

[Sakura Hana]

I love how after i vote mandarin everyone's scum pools go from: Lordj, to Lordj/Mandarin

[OceanWind]

So, who is scum, Sakura?

[Sakura Hana]

I'm still thinking it's mandarin regardless, if there were more scum alive that message might have meant something, if Mandarin flips town and i die tonight, for anyone town remember it's a good idea to check who changed their stance on Mandarin and why.

[Mightymandarin]

Since it's pretty much decided at this point, let me ask this. When I flip town, you all are just going to go for lordj210? What if he flips town too? Then what? Lordj or me can't claim because we're vanilla townies, to be afforded this bullet proof status because you have a PR seems so easy to take all the heat off of you, but if that's the way the game is played so be it.

Then again, reading back I'm not sure about lordj210 because he clearly distanced himself from GM in the joke voting stage but then gave town reads to her for not a very good reason, so on second-thought I wouldn't be too surprised if he flips mafia.

Tomorrow, (or the day after you lynch lordj210), watch Ether and OceanWind, neither have claimed and both were late to accusing GM of being scum.

Finally, thank you all for bearing with me this game. I know I was kind of spotty in my participation and all over the place in my reasoning/logic etc., but you all gave me the benefit of the newb-doubt for as long as was reasonable. I had fun, and feel better prepared for next game.

[OceanWind]

That one post single-handedly killed my scumread on MightyMandarin.

I can follow some of your reasoning for townreading lordj in that when everyone seems sure it is you or another player, it is natural to empathize with that other player because they're experiencing the game through the same lens. Help me out here and explain your read on lordj a bit more.

[Mightymandarin]

I always townread him because he exhibited the newbie paranoia you talked about before and voted a variety of different people based on reasons I actually agreed with/empathized with. Also I may be biased because he's the only person here with much less experience than everyone else.

The only thing I find slightly fishy about him is how he left a "crumb" (may be misusing this term here) to show he was suspicious of GM, but then changed it to "slightly townread GM" later, when everyone else was suspicious of her from the start of the game almost. I don't know to chalk it up to misreading or what, but that's what I got.

[Ether]

I want to hammer more after that. I'd have expected more frustration with how I ignored his case yet again if he'd ever cared about it at all. It's just pathos.

I don't really understand what you just said about lordj?

[OceanWind]

Re-looking at all the placed GoodMorning talked about Lordj:

Spoiler: GoodMorning's mentions of Lordj

Post 17 - Tells coolkyledude that lordj was a good vote but votes LoHa regardless and has a neutral interaction with lordj.
Post 23 - Declines to answer Sakura's question about why she called a vote for lordj20 a good vote in the same post voted LoHa.
Post 36 - Compliments coolkyledude for incisive questions and explains it.
Post 57 - Tells lordj that she already answered the question (discussed above).
Post 83 - Tells lordj that no lynch is bad for town.
Post 84 - Tells lordj that he can find avatars on the internet.
Post 89 - Explains to lordj how to pronounce LoHa and tells him to definitely get an avatar.
Post 91 - Continues to explain the "good vote" discrepancy for Sakura.
Post 121 - Puts down lordj as "scummish." This one post is a point in favor for lordj.
Post 180 - Says she could vote lordj but keeps her vote on LoHa. This post looks more like distance from buddy but vote townie.
Post 282 - Soft suspicion of Lordj. Could go either way. Hesitance to suspect townie or soft-distancing.
Post 288 - Asks lordj to explain his townreads.
Post 313 - Tells lordj that effort isn't indicative of alignment.
Post 344 - Has lordj as "scummish" with a preference for LoHa.
Post 379 - Says that lordj's recent posts are better.
Post 502 - Tells lordj that she was confused by the back and forth of the past few pages.
Post 654 - Hedges on lordj. Keeps him in the people she's willing to wagon but won't start a wagon on him.
Post 696 - Now that she was going down, she starts casting suspicion on lordj.
Post 734 - Votes lordj.
Post 750 - Calls his post gross.

Most of GoodMorning's interactions with lordj are neutral and hedgey. From memory, it seemed like she pushed her but she always had other options open and only nominally distanced herself from him until close to the very end. When it was obvious she was going down, her attacks on lordj looked more brash while at the same time she didn't put that much effort into saving him. I still like my theory that once she realized she was caught, she was trying to set him up to endgame and her weaksauce play at the end was an effort to keep the wagon on her rather than let it spill over to him.

Can we lynch lordj?

[OceanWind]

I want to hammer more after that. I'd have expected more frustration with how I ignored his case yet again if he'd ever cared about it at all. It's just pathos.

I don't really understand what you just said about lordj?

I expected scum to just give up at that point rather than list a whole bunch of people we should be looking into after he's dead.

[Sakura Hana]

yeah im never lynching OceanWind

[Ether]

Meh. That

was

a giving up post.

[Mightymandarin]

expected more frustration with how I ignored his case yet again if he'd ever cared about it at all.

Right, because that seems to be a majority of what you do by this point. A lot of what you say is just white noise.

[Ether]

Mmmmnope. If you really believed that, you wouldn't have needed me to prompt you. It would have made it into that last words post on its own.

OceanWind I like you but I really want to do this.

[Mightymandarin]

You had nothing to do with why I'm up on the chopping block, you've been second fiddle to anyone else with something interesting to say. You weren't worth mentioning.

[Ether]

Your opinion of me as a player isn't terribly important here! The sincerity of your read on me, though...that is. If I'm your top scumread, then I'd

absolutely

have been worth mentioning.

[Sakura Hana]

btw #1012 is also one of those "looking at evidence to fit your conclusion". If you're trying to find some guilty by interaction with GM you need to look at GM's interactions with everyone and viceversa then see who's more likely scum based on your results, not look at a single player and try to find all their connections with flipped scum.

[Ether]

You had nothing to do with why I'm up on the chopping block,

Like, this is pretty clearly an attempt to hurt me, but it's one that only makes sense if you're scum and we're talking about who gets credit for your lynch.

OceanWind, if you're not about to talk me down, I'm going to hammer.

[Mightymandarin]

There's a week left, why so quick to hammer? Cant we hear from lordj210?

[MoosyDoosy]

Nope, Mightmandarin dies here 100%. Someone should hammer. He doesn't answer any of the questions addressed towards him or respond to the cases against him. There's no reason to keep him around based on something as flimsy as sentiment.

[OceanWind]

btw #1012 is also one of those "looking at evidence to fit your conclusion". If you're trying to find some guilty by interaction with GM you need to look at GM's interactions with everyone and viceversa then see who's more likely scum based on your results, not look at a single player and try to find all their connections with flipped scum.

I wasn't fitting evidence to my conclusion. I had lordj as the most likely scum but I also really liked SilverWolf's point that GoodMorning spent a lot of time pushing lordj and if lordj is scum, he has to be the roleblocker which means she wouldn't be pushing him as much. So, I figured MightyMandarin was the most likely scum at that point. But then MightyMandarin made a very townie post that made me question my scumread and my reasons for letting lordj off the hook. So I went through GoodMorning's post to see how sound SilverWolf's (and my) reasoning was and I came away feeling that GoodMorning's posts don't really clear lordj as much as I thought.

You had nothing to do with why I'm up on the chopping block,

Like, this is pretty clearly an attempt to hurt me, but it's one that only makes sense if you're scum and we're talking about who gets credit for your lynch.

I agree with this however. MightyMandarin's mindset doesn't make sense from a town standpoint. If he were town, he'd want to blame Ether for his lynch considering he was scumreading her and would make her want to pay, but this is more like he doesn't want it to seem like Ether's the one that nailed him.

So yeah, I'm good with a hammer.