Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

Let me point you to something, and remind you of exactly what significance should be placed on whether or not we are voting.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p7162298

Above we are CERTAIN that Titus is scum, make a case, and don't even vote her. Our voice is our tool, not our vote. Our vote gets used strategically.

-Cerb

[Titus]

Stop spamming with irrelevant shit and not answering questions.

[Reasonably Rational]

Stop spamming with irrelevant shit and not answering questions.

I have yet to see a question I should dignify with an answer that I haven't answered. If I've missed one let me know.

-Cerb

[Titus]

@1521, Total garbage. I did have predictions and stated them. One of those is that scum would take the opportunity to hammer LQ if town. They didn't. If LQ is town, that points to scum knowing the anonymous was a lie.

Now you're expecting me to have the PM the mod sends before the trigger? Second, even if you're town, how you think scum would approach something isn't how all competent scum approach it. I've set up plenty of traps to catch scum and they work.

You're trying to divert from the shitfest that is LQ by moving the focus to a gambit that worked and has been discussed ad nauseum while a) not voting any living player in the game b) not pressuring the people you think aren't scumhunting and c) provoking drama to make Jeanne look bad.

As for helping Jeanne, helping her makes her MRE readable which helps anyone who tries.

So, I am waiting. Do you still think the dog is scum, or are you just sitting o your ass trying to piss no one off?

[Reasonably Rational]

I said questions I should dignify with an answer. Maybe if you phrase it in a fashion that doesn't create a false dichotomy I would answer.

-Cerb

[Titus]

What's the "false dichotomy"?

[Reasonably Rational]

Finally home yay!

Okay, the last sentence of your previous post. This isn't an either/or situation. I couldn't care less about pissing anyone off, ever, and as my previous post which you disregarded displayed, me voting for the dog is, well, meaningless. There's no reason to vote for anyone right now, so I see no reason to change where my vote is.

Now, regarding the PM thing. First of all, had you taken the time to properly query the mod regarding your role, I am sure he would have told you exactly what information he would have shared with the rest of the town about how your power functioned, enough so that your gambit would have been more effective. The PM thing isn't even the issue though. The issue is the fact that it should have been obvious to any scum team that, given that said power wasn't originating from them, it was being used to assist some other faction. With that knowledge, they could have reacted in a number of ways, but none of those ways are as simple as "haha I'm gonna try to force a mislynch on D1 even though if there is a 3 member scum team in a 13 player game and none of us vote town has to have 80% of their population vote for the same person to successfully lynch someone, which means if we want there to be a no lynch or a mislynch we have much stronger mundane ways of influencing the vote, and even if this power does function, the WORST CASE scenario is town loses a lynch"

The ONLY scenario in which scum would act in a fashion consistent with your expectations is if they had someone on their team who was close to being lynched and they were bussing them and saw an opportunity to dissolve that wagon...but even then...it would be a foolish risk to take!

Anyways. You are correct, the entire discussion about your gambit is basically pointless. I say it's terrible and it was useless and the claims you're making about it are untrue, you disagree. blah blah blah there.

-Cerb

Wait, now you're calling it a dog, too?
D:

[pistachi0n]

He dies Elb.

Hm.

UNVOTE:

You're not off the hook by a long shot, I'm just not happy with you sitting at l-1 atm.

There was a hammer right before this.

[pistachi0n]

Since when can people unvote after someone hammers?

[Reasonably Rational]

Since when can people unvote after someone hammers?

Untrue. Titus moved her vote.

-Cerb

[Titus]

@RR, There is plenty of reason to vote. You're not a noob. We don't no lynch Day 1 especially with LQ playing like he is. Klingon not posting. You could make a point on Jeanne. Back up your me read you waffle on.

You voting for the dog is meaningless. You voting for LQ is not. You said the dog's owner is scummy and the dog's owner is likely scum. The dog owner claims and you want to try and start policy wagons on me and Jeanne (but you briefly state LQ's probably scum so I am town).

On Klingon, you think she's not scumhunting but are content to let it go.

BM, Useless vapid posts...you let go.


Voting shows you act. Charisma is just words. Right now, I could see you going whatever way the wind blows.

;_;
I'm gonna come to your games and insist that your flavor characters are dogs and see how you like it.

[Titus]

He dies Elb.

Hm.

UNVOTE:

You're not off the hook by a long shot, I'm just not happy with you sitting at l-1 atm.

There was a hammer right before this.

What do you thin the VC was?

[Reasonably Rational]

I never said the dogs owner was scummy. Never. LQ's explanation of his power changes that situation from appearing to be 100% scum delaying on a claim he can't back up, to possibly being an honest claim, which returns the situation to it's previous state. BM hasn't said anything, and I told you I was at work all day and all I could really do was respond to posts. Don't blame me for not pushing people when I'm not in a position to look through what they've said and see what needs to be said. I've already explained the Klingon situation...I'm not sure what you're looking for here from me. Half this playerlist knows Drixx and myself and should be aware, as you are, that we don't vote often. I don't see any actual motivation, either town or scum, for your stance on this matter. From what we've already said, it should be incredibly obvious that there is no chance were not town, so if you're just trying to sort us, you're way behind...and if you're not trying to sort us, what exactly are you doing?

-Cerb

[Titus]

"Come on! Show me what a man you've become!"

-Teo McDohl,

Suikoden I

VOTECOUNT 1.08

LicketyQuickety (5):

Suzune, Ranger, Firekari, Titus, Jeane11

Elbirn (2):

pistachi0n, BRantz

Titus (1):

Bright

Blackest Magick (1):

Elbirn

Jeanne11 (1):

LicketyQuickety

Klingoncelt (1):

wgeurts

Not Voting (3):

Klingoncelt, Reasonably Rational, Blackest Magick

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-11 18:55:00)

"Take care. Live your life to the fullest... for my sake too."

-Ted,

Suikoden I

VOTECOUNT 1.09

LicketyQuickety (4):

Suzune, Ranger, Firekari, Jeane11

Jeanne11 (3):

LicketyQuickety, pistachi0n, Bright

Titus (3):

Blackest Magick, Reasonably Rational, wgeurts

Ranger (1):

Klingoncelt

Elbirn (1):

BRantz

Blackest Magick (1):

Elbirn

Not Voting (1):

Titus

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-11 18:55:00)
My access will be very limited for the rest of the day. Please understand.

Alright, so no votes happened in between these VC's. We can see what happened in the melee.

Also, we should kill the damn dog, or at least figure out if the damn dog is even killable. I don't know if anybody else noticed that, but there are 14 players alive, including Bright, which isn't in the player list, and is CLEARLY some sort of method of anonymous double voting.

VOTE: Bright


-Cerb

I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and state you're not voting Bright because you pretend to think Bright is scum. With all your "I am only going to use my vote sparingly" crap, you can't seriously argue you didn't think the dog was scum here.

[Titus]

I am trying to sort people. I sort people by who they vote. You're camping on the sidelines.

[Reasonably Rational]

*shrug* I said above, I use my vote strategically. In this case, it was to determine whether or not the Bright slot could be voted for. I don't care enough beyond that to unvote, and there's no place where I would prefer to place my vote right now.

Am I going to have to ignore you too, Titus, to keep the thread from exploding with noise? Serious question. You're going on at great length about absurd minutiae that aren't alignment indicative in any way.

-Cerb

[Klingoncelt]

VOTE: Titus

More and more you're reminding me of HU2 Titus.

[Suzune]

Well, I this is a new one for me. Usually speaking, games of mafia scum do not gain ten pages in less then twenty four hours. Catch up post coming.

He is correct, though, in that you haven't actually learned a shitton yet

I have to agree with RR. I feel like if you had actually gained quite a bit of knowledge you would not announce it. Unless you wanted to see whether the mafia would target you. This is why it is hard for information roles to decide when to show their power because they risk dying and taking the information with them or bluffing and hoping for the best.

Claiming now may help as let's face it, he's probably getting lynched anyway so doing it now rather than later could gain us some time.

I hate to be the negative person here, but does it really matter what she claims. In a role madness kind of game like this doctor is just as likely to end up as mafia as town. Therefore, unless the role she claims is like drop dead town, I am uncertain it will help at all. Some roles one would think have to be town but still.

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

I did already, but no one responded to them, not even LQ. It can be found here if you are curious: post 941

Suzune was RVS.

I made a post for you about it a few days ago. In case my reason for keeping the vote were not clear.

There was a role claim in here, therefore, my original posting concerns about LQ cases might need to be retracted right now. I will read more of the claim tomorrow.

Elaborate on this please. I've heard a couple different things so far.

1) Titus can send out two messages per day
2) Jeanne can invite one person to a neighborhood.

Neither of those correspond with you being invited to some other PT.

I know very little about Titus I am afraid. I was never in a private topic with him, I was brought after him. So I was invited after Jeanne invited Titus. Or at least that is how I understand it. Where I am from we call this role "The Chef" usually. They are able to bring people regardless of alignment together for a small period of time. So Jeanne chose me and we talked. This is how I was filled in on the gambit.

Continuing this conversation down into the next posts. Titus, I can speak for myself he asked me the question. I agree that Titus should not have answered for me if for nothing else then it is annoying. I can answer my own questions.

[Titus]

<quote chop>I find it hard to imagine, regardless of what Titus says about roles, that a mediator kind of roll feel into the hands of a mafia.

<quote chop>

What's the difference between this and Jeanne's claim?

UNVOTE: LQ

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus

More and more you're reminding me of HU2 Titus.

Your scu buddies call you to vote me? There's a claim and leading wagon for you to comment on.

[Titus]

VOTE: LQ

Fuck it. Today needs to end.

[wgeurts]

VOTE: Titus
Dragon join me you friendly animal.
Also I'll admit to sending a Pm early game to version asking for me to give the dog a bone to see what happens. In hind sight he probably just laughed at that.

[Reasonably Rational]

So someone who can neighborize one person at a time, willingly participated in outright lying to the town, has spewed a very large amount of noise into the game making it difficult nigh upon impossible to read them, and who is being actively coached by Titus ... and we're supposed to just believe that's town because...?

Titus, meanwhile, is doing things she scum reads other players for doing, including openly and frequently coaching players, and we're supposed to believe she's town because...?

The "war" mechanic that happened today generated a vote count afterwards. I could interpret that vote count to paint every single player in the game as scum, were I inclined to do something as irrational as start with the premise that someone is scum and then mangle the data and that person's posts to support that conclusion. And yet, Titus claims to have learned (past tense in her phrasing) as "shitton" from doing it. She just can't share it right now because it won't mean anything until later. So apparently it isn't actually learned yet.

There's a saying. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. What it means, for those who aren't good with idioms, is that the same standard should be applied to everyone. Titus

should

be familiar with the concept, but doesn't seem to mind double standards that benefit her.

Love, with exasperation,
Drixx

P.S. - Jeanne ... I'm still waiting for you to summarize your "good posts" for me. You wouldn't want to make me read through 1500+ posts when you're literally

begging

me to comment on them ... would you?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: LQ

Fuck it. Today needs to end.

Given the claim I have you still vote for me.

VOTE: Titus

[Jeanne11]

while ignoring any and all reasonable posts I make to portray me as an idiot.

I did have a death in my close extended family (an Uncle) and a V/LA, I did at least skim the pages I missed while dealing with that. I don't recall any reasonable posts from you.

I

do

recall you being repeatedly coached by Titus (something Titus would never sit and allow another player to do to someone as difficult to read as you, and she knows it). I also recall you being part of the web of lies Titus spun supposedly to try and catch scum, but she somehow didn't actually think through the motives and such ahead of time to have reliable predictions of how various parties would respond. The lie about the day ending with this mechanic was the most egregious because the mod never said that in the PM that got sent out, so any

competent

scum knew it was a trap.

You willingly participated in an intentional deception with, at best, a slim chance of any town benefit with a very large probability that the results can be skewed to fit any theory. The whole thing looks like a Titus style scum ploy to produce things she can use to try and earn town cred and get mislynches on townies who might be a threat. You participated in that. Ever hear of the phrase "Guilt by association"?

Because RR is scum and Elbirn is not.

We're not scum. You won't be pushing a lynch on us, ever. Get over yourself already.

Bad reasoning? If anyone has it, it's RR. He ignores all my posts, even the good ones, why again?

I'm sorry ... you made any good posts? Can you maybe give me a summary? I don't think I can bring myself to read your ISO. You admit you are intentionally acting like a crazy person, so please no AtE or anything. I'm just being bluntly honest with you.

Jumping in. Jeanne can swap her neighbor. When Suzune was speaking there, I was not.

This kind of answering for another player is super scummy, and you wouldn't

ever

allow another player to get away with doing it; especially not coaching someone like Jeanne who is intentionally spewing inane posts into the thread and making herself a necessary lynch before endgame because no sane town player at this juncture wants her anywhere near M/LYLO.

So the question is ... why are you answering for her and coaching her?


~Drixx

Where? You ask where? Have you even read the case I made on LQ couple of pages ago? No? Then stfu