Touhou UPick 4 - [Aborted]

[pieguyn]

I will highlight again that Relentlesses activity is *solely* focused around players who have voted for him, or complaining that other players who have 'done less' (eg chocolate, fey) aren't getting more votes.
This looks like scum MO to me, which is why I'm voting presently.

I'd like to know why you think the bit about him popping up when me/noddy/Sakura all wagoned him is _more_ likely to come from scum; it's the kind of thing that I would expect to prompt a response regardless of alignment. it also implies it was a serious wagon, which pretty obviously isn't the case (he was in no danger of being lynched and so would not have any reason to reactively change his strategy in response to it, and I've said I've been reading him as town the whole time).

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh u should talk to me about reads and things....... I'm leaning town on you but I have to say you haven't been doing much other than responding. I'd actually like a listpost from you just to see where you're at on everyone

I did a listpost recently, if there's a specific person you care about just ask me about it. The longer this day goes the more impatient I am for it to be overwith already so I can actually do things. I wouldn't call what I'm asking Kilga about responding exactly, but if you mean not pushing anything that's accurate. I'd still prefer Dormoe but it doesn't sound like anyone else thinks so, so I'm like meh might as well take this chance to feel people out.

5 ActionDans

*internal screaming*

can someone who's town reading Sky walk me through it in more depth? Sky is almost impossible for me to read cos in the last UPick I thought most of what he said made no sense and then when he was scum most of what he said came off fairly reasonable.

I kind of just did in replying to Feysal, if that helps. So how are you reading Sky right now, incomprehensibly or does he make sense to you? You cut me with a huge wall post on Sky Pal but I'm gonna ask anyways. I do find it interesting that Relentless is reading him the opposite of me right now, but I still disagree with him.

[Sky_Paladin]

It seems like you only have an issue because I'm pressuring Relentless. Admittedly he is your town read.

I have some beans to spill and I will share them soon. I'm also interested in seeing Muffins response to my prior questions.

[Sky_Paladin]

You = pie

Thanks iPhone.

[Kilgamayan]

Oh, I meant similarly to Muffin's sentiments about Borkborkbork (read: not know what bork actually thinks of anyone), not similarly to anything said about you. Sorry for the confusion.

You don't have to be so formal with me Kilga. :p I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong from your PoV, other then being erratic and weird.

Trying to make Muffin go away by yelling at him soured me on you again, to be honest (as much as I'm sure it didn't bother him one bit). I thought his questions were valid and it looked like you were trying to shut them down rather than answer them.

Anyway, of the people currently with votes on them, I'm most willing to vote for Feysal (natch), bork (almost Feysal 2.0 at this point, also why is your vote on pie), or Shadowy. I'd also have zero issue with a Gaiden lynch if that became possible. Not particularly interested in other lynches today except for maaaaybe !science - I'm starting to change my mind a bit here given the continued non-contribution plus telling Dormio to shove it in response to the vote. The one major issue I have with this is that I assume a !science lynch will be pretty heavily resisted unless the SDM hood green-lights it, and I just plain don't care enough to try until that happens, so I'm not going to waste the energy thinking about it more than this.

Chocola and Katsuki are better left to a vig or the mod as far as I'm concerned.

[pieguyn]

I kind of just did in replying to Feysal, if that helps. So how are you reading Sky right now, incomprehensibly or does he make sense to you? You cut me with a huge wall post on Sky Pal but I'm gonna ask anyways. I do find it interesting that Relentless is reading him the opposite of me right now, but I still disagree with him.

most of what he's posted this time around seems fairly reasonable on the surface level, and not at all like the "hard push the shit out of everything" Sky I remember from the last UPick. I also think, in general, he's letting go of his reads way too easily, ex. he went from his reads 324 to mostly dropping the majority of them without much explanation (ex. me/Kilga/Fey without much questioning of us in between). some specific things, on the other hand, I take issue with (ex. the read on me), but show enough depth of thought that I think it'd be unlikely to come from scum (I did like his reasoning for why he first picked up on the me/Sakura interactions and why he first thought it was disingenuous).

It seems like you only have an issue because I'm pressuring Relentless. Admittedly he is your town read.

I have some beans to spill and I will share them soon. I'm also interested in seeing Muffins response to my prior questions.

that is not what I said at all, actually.

I take issue with it bc you're trying to push that Relentless is only doing shit due to the wagon on him and this is more likely to come from scum (this is what I took from your posts, correct me if I'm wrong), when in reality the wagon on him was just for reactions as opposed to people seriously scum reading him - and thus, he-scum would have no reason to feel threatened enough by it to alter his playstyle. you're pushing an argument based on assumptions that come off unreasonable at best.

[pieguyn]

Re: Fey;
Their latest post is an improvement and I'm happy.

can you explain this in more detail? I thought Feysal's reads list when he did post it was meh, and I don't see what you (or Kagami) found town about it.

[zMuffinMan]

I think chocola could just be scum, despite how lazy and mostly uninformative a lynch there might be

[Kagami]

I wish people who don't want to lynch Feysal would actually explain why they don't want to lynch Feysal. because everybody who doesn't want to lynch Feysal hasn't explained why they don't want to lynch Feysal.

Kagami, how does Feysal's state of mind suggest town if scum have kills? if it's worth anything, I firmly believe scum's got some form of NK ability. but I have a wacky killing ability myself too so Who Knows (would not be surprised if it was just strewn across both sides)

I had misremembered the relevant post a bit, I had for some reason thought that there was less of a waffly assertion that town-muffin would auto-win because scum can't get rid of him.

In any case, it sounds like GiF has role-based reason to think Fey is town.

[pieguyn]

I think virtually everything I've done this game I could fake, though.

I don't, and early in the game when I townread someone like I often to with NS I'm ok with questioning that, but I'm finding it really hard to believe that you legitimately think you're just nigh unreadable otheriwse. What's the "one thing you did that you think you could be townread for"?

91 was the post I liked. It was authoritarian and aggressive, and I hate to say it but in EoSD you were pretty much neither until way late in the game when you were under pressure (and even then you pretty much did it in a microcosm of things like the Ranger lynch)

I don't know how else to describe it - it's tone. It was early in the game and that's very often the best I'm gonna have.

that isn't really what I'm saying. at its core, my argument is you're town reading me for posts that weren't actually town, and thus you were making up the read (which there is scum motivation for doing as I laid out in a previous post). I thought the only thing it would have really been reasonable to town read me for was my reaction to Sakura.

I think I could have made 91 as scum, but I don't have a problem with you town reading me for it.

can you walk me through your read on noddy in more depth?

[pieguyn]

I'd support a Chocola lynch, I didn't want to say anything initially for fear it'd affect what he did when he got back but I don't buy that he would lurk for this long without so much as any game-related posts whatsoever; my inclination is that he's just scum and fears he can't come up with any passable content when he pops in.

[zMuffinMan]

that

or something like that

[Kagami]

Choco lynch has appeal.

[zMuffinMan]

I haven't had a chance to read borkaloo's posts today yet outside of light skimming and likely won't til later tonight

Do they look town?

[Sky_Paladin]

I am in a neighborhood with Chocola only.
His activity has basically matched this thread, however he was very active pre game. I thought he was scum from this and will share details when I get to my PC.
This is the main reason for me viewing Relentlesses on-again-and-off-again vote of Chocola with suspicion. It seemed to me to be too coincidental in RVS. Scum often vote for each other in RVS and since I *already* thought Chocola was scum from pre game I was looking for it.
There is a reason I asked for Chocola not to be lynched this day phase and I will clarify this if required.

[notscience]

I haven't had a chance to read borkaloo's posts today yet outside of light skimming and likely won't til later tonight

Do they look town?

He issued a defiant challenge to me in particular for saying I' vote him

That was interesting

[Kilgamayan]

I thought he was scum from this

There is a reason I asked for Chocola not to be lynched this day phase

????????????????????

whatever care meter has hit zero i'm going to bed

[Sky_Paladin]

I'm expecting, but don't know, Chocola to flip scum. I'm expecting, but don't know, Relentless to flip scum. But if I could get a flip on Relentless first it would help me to decide if I could trust my neighbour or not - and to submit night actions accordingly.

I am Ran and Chocola is Chen. It's bad for me when Chen dies :/

[Sky_Paladin]

And since its now relevant, there is no yukari player in the neighbourhood. I didn't mention it earlier since it would require me to claim essentially.

[Shadoweh]

Dat Sky-read climbing. What did Chocola talk about in the pre-game and did he continue any activity into Day 1 at all?

[Kilgamayan]

I'm not sure how Relentless' flip has a bearing on Chocola's alignment.

The second thing is granted, though.

[Kilgamayan]

Oh wait, that's your theory because of the RVS voting thing, never mind.

[Kilgamayan]

whoops had to go to work

I don't put much (well, okay, any) stock in RVS tells, but I can see Sky Paladin doing so and genuinely believing it so I don't think any less of him on the scummy scale for it.

[Sky_Paladin]

Cliff notes version - I am still with family:
Chocola posts 4 in a row expecting Shrine Maiden folks to deluge the Mafiascum folks in an unending tide of forum posts.
Then asks about my previous life as a baker since he is now a baker.
We discuss baking, ladies, and sleep.
I post Yakumo/Chen Touhou Grand Prix, thus claiming Ran (he is a massive Chen fan so I knew this would be his class).
He then states he has anti-town cards and isnt sure what to do about it, asks me to talk about my cards, states he says he has a strong gut read I'm town (which seemed very unsubstantiated to me at the time which was part of why I thought he was scum). I said that it's likely players can join the topic later in the phase as stated by the OP so we should be careful with what we reveal.
He agrees, and then the

[Sky_Paladin]

surprise post is the best post.

This all took place in pre-game.
After that he never posted in the thread until the Chen picture in the main thread; he posted a Chen pic there too.

After that I speculate on what I should do with my upcoming night actions as well as my thoughts on Muffin/Kilga/Shadoweh/Kagami/Feysal/GiF. Main differences from here and there is that in private I leaned scum on Kagami and GiF whereas I don't think I've stated that here.

That's pretty much everything. Gotta go.